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  • Draft Rumors - NFP

    I think we should be looking to get a punishing fullback in this draft to really help out the running game. I think Hynoski is the best FB in this years draft, maybe not the most skilled in terms of running or catching, but he will be able to clear lanes.


    I hope we can target him in the 6th round.

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  • #2
    I believe Fox said he was giving Coordinators a lot of free reign on their systems, so I wouldn't be shocked to see a resemblance to last years O. So with that in mind, I don't think Henry would be a good fit especially with Larsen on the roster. However, if that's not the case then I'm all for drafting him. Call me old school, but I love a powerful run game. Imagine though, we run a jumbo set with Larsen and hynoski in the backfield, and we let Tebow run behind them.
    What's the difference between ignorance and apathy?
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    • #3
      I love fullbacks, but I'd rather the offense move with the rend toward versatile H Backs, along the lines of a Dallas Clark and Jason Witten.

      Find a guy who can block, go out for passes, etc, and in combo with Tebow you'd have a lethal attack.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by CTM View Post
        I think we should be looking to get a punishing fullback in this draft to really help out the running game. I think Hynoski is the best FB in this years draft, maybe not the most skilled in terms of running or catching, but he will be able to clear lanes.


        I hope we can target him in the 6th round.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a4x6V31BMQ
        Hynoski is a very versatile FB. Can handle power runs on short yardage, can be a check down and definitely a lead blocker. He would really help T n T. fo sho. Moreno seems like the type of back that would really benefit from a great FB. I think Hynoski is the best FB, do to his versatility. There may be one slightly better pure lead blocker but, not a better FB that is top 3 in every category. Larsen isn't a very good FB at all, great to have for depth on O,D, and ST that's about it.

        If the O returns to a prolific spread, I see a big time fail in all phases. Complementary football would be out the window. The D and our run game will look horrible and we will become one dimensional on O and D. I think a more balanced attack is on the way (if Fox doesn't want run out of town) and a guy like Hynoski would be a key piece.
        I hate the Defenseless Receiver rule and the fines. Posted since '07. 2011 rule addition :nono: backhand a fool!

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        • #5
          That would be ...

          Originally posted by Jay3 View Post
          I love fullbacks, but I'd rather the offense move with the rend toward versatile H Backs, along the lines of a Dallas Clark and Jason Witten.

          Find a guy who can block, go out for passes, etc, and in combo with Tebow you'd have a lethal attack.
          ... someone like Charles Clay of Tulsa, or possibly Virgil Green of Nevada. They are both late third/fourth rounders, however. Too bad since the Broncos don't have a fourth or a fifth thanks to McDaniels. It would be nice to use a mid-round pick for O. Oh well.
          "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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          • #6
            Originally posted by samparnell View Post
            ... someone like Charles Clay of Tulsa, or possibly Virgil Green of Nevada. They are both late third/fourth rounders, however. Too bad since the Broncos don't have a fourth or a fifth thanks to McDaniels. It would be nice to use a mid-round pick for O. Oh well.
            We have 2 second round picks thanks to him too.
            Denver Broncos GM
            Originally posted by Mosk
            Joey Bosa ~ Jason Spriggs ~ Darian Thompson ~ Nick Vannett ~ Paul Perkins ~ Dan Vitale

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            • #7
              If you have ...

              Originally posted by marcus_miller View Post
              Hynoski is a very versatile FB. Can handle power runs on short yardage, can be a check down and definitely a lead blocker. He would really help T n T. fo sho. Moreno seems like the type of back that would really benefit from a great FB. I think Hynoski is the best FB, do to his versatility. There may be one slightly better pure lead blocker but, not a better FB that is top 3 in every category. Larsen isn't a very good FB at all, great to have for depth on O,D, and ST that's about it.

              If the O returns to a prolific spread, I see a big time fail in all phases. Complementary football would be out the window. The D and our run game will look horrible and we will become one dimensional on O and D. I think a more balanced attack is on the way (if Fox doesn't want run out of town) and a guy like Hynoski would be a key piece.
              ... a FB and a TE who are great blockers, much can be done in the running game from the I formation. Like Pitt spoiling West Virginia's shot at the BCS Championship Game in 2007. Pitt's O was ball control wham, trap, toss and PAP. Their thirteen points were good enough in the backyard brawl in Morgantown.

              Unfortunately for the I formation in the NFL, no one runs trap anymore. The Chuck Noll Steelers built their rushing attack around trap. Can't remember having seen it since then.

              When you remove trap from the I formation rushing arsenal, it becomes much more limited. With trap you can run trap option. Without trap, you are limited to wham, dive and toss.

              Counter is another run play you hardly see in the NFL anymore. You know, like the play the Broncos couldn't stop in Super Bowl XXII? Timmy Smith set a Super Bowl rushing record with 204 yards most of which were on counter. Rulon Jones didn't figure that one out regardless of how often he saw it ... coming right at him. I haven't seen an NFL team run GTO in years.

              A full rushing attack from I would include: wham, dive, trap, toss sweep, trap option, triple option, TB counter, Wing counter, GTO counter, speed option and PAP off all those looks. Throw in a few plays from triple I/Stack I/Maryland I and there you go.

              Another play you don't see much anymore is sweep. When you run it from the I, it's toss. Lombardi ran it from split backs and had seven plays attacking adjustments to the sweep.

              On the other hand Spread with Tebow at QB can become Spread Option since it is from the same formations.

              Running is possible from both the I and Spread.

              Spread formation football was originally (c.1950) designed to help the running game. D must line up on O, so when you spread your formation, the D is spread, too. Tiger Ellison developed the Run and Shoot to enhance the run game. It was Mouse Davis who turned the Run and Shoot into a choice route passing attack.
              Last edited by samparnell; 03-26-2011, 12:03 PM.
              "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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              • #8
                Draft Rumors - NFP

                Thought there were some interesting comments. Perhaps our extra 7th round pick could be used on Ahmad Black if he's still out there.

                Also, Wilson may be available beyond the 2nd round which could be interesting...



                • Talked to an NFL scout this week who said his team currently has a free agent grade on Florida safety Ahmad Black. The scout notes that “it’s tough to draft a small, slow guy at any position.”

                • I keep hearing from team sources that medical concerns are still very real with Illinois LB Martez Wilson, which could cause him to slide on draft day.

                • NFL scouts have told me they have been turned off by Kansas State RB Daniel Thomas and his inability to show up to meetings, as he consistently reschedules. Questionable accountability is the phrase that keeps popping up.

                • One name who seems to be building a lot of traction is Illinois DT Corey Liuget. He’s said to be making his way up into the first half of round one and is a guy who the Rams are said to have a lot of interest in.

                • Talked to two scouts this week after the Georgia pro day concerning DE Justin Houston. One said he thinks the guy is a lock to go in the top half of the first round because of his size/speed numbers. The other compared his rise to Robert Ayers a couple years ago and said he doesn’t think he’s anything more than a 2nd/3rd round prospect.

                • Southern Cal OT Tyron Smith is said to be at the top of the wish list for the Dallas Cowboys at pick nine. Everyone I have talked with is expecting a massive pro day from him and thinks he could seal his top-10 fate with a strong performance.

                • A lot of the 3-4 teams at the end of round one are said to have a lot of interest in Temple DL Muhammad Wilkerson. Hearing there is especially a lot of interest coming from Baltimore.

                • Talked to a scout who said the draft stock of Oregon State RB Jacquizz Rodgers took a bit of a hit after running in the 4.6 range at the NFL Combine, all while standing at 5-6. The scout still said he likes him, but again referenced that it’s tough to take a guy high who is small and doesn’t run real well.

                • Another undersized prospect whose stock seems to be down is West Virginia’s Jock Sanders, citing that there are off the field concerns and that he doesn’t run real well either.

                • From everyone I’ve talked with this week, there seems to be a growing belief that there are actually some legs to the Patriots-Chargers potential first-round trade involving the Pats 28th overall pick.
                Hate List for 2016-2017 Season: 1. Oakland, 2. New England, 3. Kansas City, 4. Pittsburgh and 5. Houston (yes, Houston....)

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                • #9
                  Talked to an NFL scout this week who said his team currently has a free agent grade on Florida safety Ahmad Black. The scout notes that “it’s tough to draft a small, slow guy at any position.”
                  If Ahmad Black falls that far, he would be a great pick in the 7th round. He does not have the impressive size and speed but he is a football player. Jairus Byrd was also considered a small and slow DB but the guy can play. That's what matters the most. Black was very productive on the field. 244 tackles, 15 pass breakups, 13 interceptions. Damn, I would even consider him a nice selection in the 6th round.

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                  EDIT: And he was named 1st Team All-SEC in 2010.
                  Last edited by -Rod-; 03-26-2011, 12:52 PM.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Roddoliver View Post
                    If Ahmad Black falls that far, he would be a great pick in the 7th round. He does not have the impressive size and speed but he is a football player. Jairus Byrd was also considered a small and slow DB but the guy can play. That's what matters the most. Black was very productive on the field. 244 tackles, 15 pass breakups, 13 interceptions. Damn, I would even consider him a nice selection in the 6th round.

                    Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.


                    EDIT: And he was named 1st Team All-SEC in 2010.
                    Totally agree - he was productive on the football field. A 6th or 7th for him would be a smart move on our part. We can afford to take those chances. At a minimum, he'd be on ST.
                    Hate List for 2016-2017 Season: 1. Oakland, 2. New England, 3. Kansas City, 4. Pittsburgh and 5. Houston (yes, Houston....)

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                    • #11
                      I would like Ahmad Black in the 7th, but not in the 3rd like some people have put in their mock

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                        ... a FB and a TE who are great blockers, much can be done in the running game from the I formation.

                        On the other hand Spread with Tebow at QB can become Spread Option since it is from the same formations.

                        Running is possible from both the I and Spread.

                        Spread formation football was originally (c.1950) designed to help the running game. D must line up on O, so when you spread your formation, the D is spread, too. Tiger Ellison developed the Run and Shoot to enhance the run game. It was Mouse Davis who turned the Run and Shoot into a choice route passing attack.
                        What I like about the I and off set I is that,... A... It big time bolsters the run...B you still have 5 potential receivers out of the formation and will cause serious miss matches doing so....C...there is a ton of disguise...and.. D... lastly and most importantly you have balance...

                        As soon as everyone gets on board with a trend (spread O) thats a good time to switch it up on O anyway, Ds will be built for the majority.. Atlanta seems to be the start of a new old trend....I'll call the trend I speak of, a balanced attack. Balanced attacks are very complementary to a building D. The spread DOES NOT seem to help the run game even if that's what it was designed to do. Just look at the numbers of spread teams, Rushing is mediocre at best. A spread O's D, is slightly above par at best, due to the other team racing you for high score.

                        Yes you can run from the spread but, the production is hampered to the point it becomes relatively impossible to have balanced. T n T would be able to SLIGHTLY enhance the run production from the spread. That however opens the door to bigger problems such as the QB being the one and only target of a D and all that entails..

                        Yes running is "possible" from the spread. Possible.
                        Last edited by marcus_miller; 03-26-2011, 02:15 PM.
                        I hate the Defenseless Receiver rule and the fines. Posted since '07. 2011 rule addition :nono: backhand a fool!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by berlownacyo7s View Post
                          I would like Ahmad Black in the 7th, but not in the 3rd like some people have put in their mock
                          Let's hope he slides...
                          Hate List for 2016-2017 Season: 1. Oakland, 2. New England, 3. Kansas City, 4. Pittsburgh and 5. Houston (yes, Houston....)

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                          • #14
                            Marcus, ...

                            Originally posted by marcus_miller View Post
                            What I like about the I and off set I is that,... A... It big time bolsters the run...B you still have 5 potential receivers out of the formation and will cause serious miss matches doing so....C...there is a ton of disguise...and.. D... lastly and most importantly you have balance...

                            As soon as everyone gets on board with a trend (spread O) thats a good time to switch it up on O anyway, Ds will be built for the majority.. Atlanta seems to be the start of a new old trend....I'll call the trend I speak of, a balanced attack. Balanced attacks are very complementary to a building D. The spread DOES NOT seem to help the run game even if that's what it was designed to do. Just look at the numbers of spread teams, Rushing is mediocre at best. A spread O's D, is slightly above par at best, due to the other team racing you for high score.

                            Yes you can run from the spread but, the production is hampered to the point it becomes relatively impossible to have balanced. T n T would be able to SLIGHTLY enhance the run production from the spread. That however opens the door to bigger problems such as the QB being the one and only target of a D and all that entails..

                            Yes running is "possible" from the spread. Possible.
                            ... there are five eligible receivers from any formation (six if you include the QB); it's in the rules of the game.

                            Spread formations have robust running attacks. It is a fact of football history. Look it up: Dutch Meyer; Tiger Ellison; Rich Rodriguez; Urban Meyer; Chris Ault.

                            Go to fastandfuriousfootball.com and download some free playbooks. They have offensive playbooks all the way back to "Pop" Warner up to now. You can learn about: Wing-T; Flexbone; Wishbone; I formation; TripleI/StackI/Maryland I; Run and Shoot; Regular Spread; Spread Option; Single Wing; The Modern A Formation (a personal favorite); Pistol; Double Wing both under and direct snap; Empty Backfield Run Plays (yes, they exist), etc.

                            Do it. You'll love it, and you will learn a lot. I do.

                            There is a long history of effective run games from spread formations. You need look no further back than Tebow at Florida.

                            By the way, I formation running attacks don't have nearly the disguise of Unbalanced Line Single Wing, Modern A Formation or Wing-T/Flexbone. It's a power set.
                            Last edited by samparnell; 03-26-2011, 03:04 PM.
                            "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                            • #15
                              I wouldn't take a chance on Black, even in the 6th or 7th round. There are other players who will most likely be available that have better chances of being productive contributors. In the last 2 rounds I would like to see players such as Charlie Gantt, vai taua, mario Fannin, Da"rel Scott, Richard Sherman, Brandon Bair, and Alex Linnenkohl. These are all guys I hope are looked at in the late rounds and could become very good players.
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