What do you think of.....

[japfaff]

Drafting Patrick Peterson with the 2nd overall pick.
Then taking Kyle Orton and a 3rd rd pick and trading them to Washington for DT Albert Hansworth. I know it's risky for Denver to make this trade because of all of the issues that he has had with Washington but the guy immediately upgrades the D line and is proven in a 4-3. Plus we have 2 play making Corners then using the rest of the draft to grab youth on the line. I think if that is opportunity arose that we should pull the trigger without thinking twice.

It is a terrible idea cause you do not waste the #2 pick on PP. NO corner is worth the #2 pick. There are to many ways to get top tier CB's, you do not draft them high. This pick is either front 7 or Elway and X should be fired it is simple as that. But I will say one thing I am not at all against the picking up of Haynesworth. I think that we have a D full of terrible players that aren't tough. I think that a elite type player, with AH's nasty streak is just what we need. But at this point he can be got for next to nothing. I give him a 6th or 7th and a future conditional pick, or I just roll the dice and pick him up as a FA

[toothpick]

So you're telling me that Deion Sanders wasn't worth the 5th pick? champ wasnt worth the 7th? both were top 10 picks among others I'm sure. I don't know what NFL you watch but its a passing league now days and you have to be able to create turnovers if you can lock up and shutdown the both sides of the field it not only creates more time for our FRONT 7 to get after the QB. But its forces teams to run the ball.
draft Patrick Peterson and then you trade whatever some low end draft picks for AH. That fixes so many holes in our D with just those two moves.

kthanks

[SoundsOfSuccess]

So you're telling me that Deion Sanders wasn't worth the 5th pick? champ wasnt worth the 7th? both were top 10 picks among others I'm sure. I don't know what NFL you watch but its a passing league now days and you have to be able to create turnovers if you can lock up and shutdown the both sides of the field it not only creates more time for our FRONT 7 to get after the QB. But its forces teams to run the ball.
draft Patrick Peterson and then you trade whatever some low end draft picks for AH. That fixes so many holes in our D with just those two moves.

kthanks

And to add to that, by having dual elite corners, you can now comfortably play your safeties closer to the line, thus increasing likelihood the ball carrier will be tackled for less yards.

It's a domino reaction, really.

[toothpick]

And to add to that, by having dual elite corners, you can now comfortably play your safeties closer to the line, thus increasing likelihood the ball carrier will be tackled for less yards.

It's a domino reaction, really.

Exactly! what I'm thinking and I hope Elway, Fox and Xanders are all thinking the same thing. It doesn't completely fix the defense by any means but I think it would make it a million times better than the one we had last year. Now for my next question. Do we draft a Defensive end to play opposite of Doom or is Robert Ayers NOT considered yet a bust and do we give him a year in the 4-3 scheme and see what happens. In my opinion we should after the Safety and D tackle positions are addressed.

[THEdraftnik]

So you're telling me that Deion Sanders wasn't worth the 5th pick? champ wasnt worth the 7th? both were top 10 picks among others I'm sure. I don't know what NFL you watch but its a passing league now days and you have to be able to create turnovers if you can lock up and shutdown the both sides of the field it not only creates more time for our FRONT 7 to get after the QB. But its forces teams to run the ball.
draft Patrick Peterson and then you trade whatever some low end draft picks for AH. That fixes so many holes in our D with just those two moves.

kthanks

The nfl doesnt work like that unfortunately.

Great corners and an average pass rush is average pass coverage.

Awful corners and great pass rush is great coverage.

No corner can cover for 7 seconds every play, and they can cover the tight end, the wide receiver, the slot receiver, and the running back at the same time.

We have had good corners the last few years, but because our pass rush was so bad, our coverage was bad. And teams like the Ravens, Steelers, and Giants have gone for pass rushers every offseason have great defenses. They dont have great corners, but they only have to cover for 3 seconds.

That my friend, is the key to sucess :2cents:

[toothpick]

You don't think that our rush this year wont be 10 times better without having great coverage? We would be adding Doom back into the lineup AND AH and that to me is having 2 premium pass rushers.

[SoundsOfSuccess]

The nfl doesnt work like that unfortunately.

Great corners and an average pass rush is average pass coverage.

Awful corners and great pass rush is great coverage.

No corner can cover for 7 seconds every play, and they can cover the tight end, the wide receiver, the slot receiver, and the running back at the same time.

We have had good corners the last few years, but because our pass rush was so bad, our coverage was bad. And teams like the Ravens, Steelers, and Giants have gone for pass rushers every offseason have great defenses. They dont have great corners, but they only have to cover for 3 seconds.

That my friend, is the key to sucess :2cents:

But if you have two great corners, you can comfortably blitz an extra LB or two regularly, thus increasing the pass rush.

For example, when this team went 6-0 and allowed 25 points in 6 games (estimation, probably exaggerated), Dumervil was able to rush on a consistent basis and cause problems because of Denver's star CB, Champ Bailey. But, Denver's D faltered because eventually teams figured out they can just throw at Goodman all day and give it to the TE.

By drafting Peterson, there will be a 5th or 6th rusher consistently, and the S will be able to take the TE instead of helping over the top.

People around here have been so brainwashed by the thought that the only way to get pass rush is from your front 4. Think outside traditionality, and get ready for it, because non traditional defensive schemes and plays are being brought over by Allen.

Besides, if you want pass rush, Denver should draft Quinn, not Dareus. Dareus will have a replacable impact in the pass rush.

[THEdraftnik]

But if you have two great corners, you can comfortably blitz an extra LB or two regularly, thus increasing the pass rush.

People around here have been so brainwashed by the thought that the only way to get pass rush is from your front 4. Think outside traditionality, and get ready for it, because non traditional defensive schemes and plays are being brought over by Allen.

Besides, if you want pass rush, Denver should draft Quinn, not Dareus. Dareus will have a replacable impact in the pass rush.

Well I want, in this order; run stoppers, pass rush, linebackers, safeties, then another corner who may or may not be better than Goodman this year.

You have to have talented blitzers too, we tried blitzing this year, it didnt work.

Defensive tackles make everybody look better, they help edge rushers, and they help linebackers find seems in the pocket.

Dareus will not be replaceable without notice. Maybe on the stat sheet, but in an actual game him being there is all the difference between an Elvis Dumervil sack, and a QB stepping up into the pocket and throwing a 20 yard pass right over Peterson who played the ball instead of the receiver.

[SoundsOfSuccess]

Well I want, in this order; run stoppers, pass rush, linebackers, safeties, then another corner who may or may not be better than Goodman this year.

You have to have talented blitzers too, we tried blitzing this year, it didnt work.

Defensive tackles make everybody look better, they help edge rushers, and they help linebackers find seems in the pocket.

Dareus will not be replaceable without notice. Maybe on the stat sheet, but in an actual game him being there is all the difference between an Elvis Dumervil sack, and a QB stepping up into the pocket and throwing a 20 yard pass right over Peterson who played the ball instead of the receiver.

Ugh. You just don't get it...

You've admitted the main reason Dareus would be picked is to stop the run. Your trying to say he's going to "make everybody better" is absolutely ridiculous and contradicting.

Let's use a simple example of a 43 6 man rush play. It's quite popular and well known, sometimes being called "free fire".

Your front 4 blitzes, along with your MLB in the 3 gap and WLB around the edge. Say the MLB is Casey Matthews and the WLB is Wesley Woodyard, just hypothetically. (I honestly don't care if a player is in the right position or not, its all hypothetical, they're just player identifiers)

You have Dumervil taking on the LT, Vickerson taking the LG, Dareus taking the C, Ayers taking the RT.

You have Matthews shooting up the middle in between Vickerson and Dareus who try to spread the blockers to create a substantial gap. Say the RG tries to take him, now he's trying to make a move on the RG. Woodyard is coming around Ayers and has the RB in front of him.

So, worst case scenario, you have everyone 1v1 if the offense blocks it perfectly, and your guy, Mr. Run Stuffer does not make the play because he only impacts the guy he's being blocked by, showing off his mediocre moves quite replacable by Justin Bannan.

Typically, the RG won't slide in to get Matthews, it'll slide out to grab Woodyard and Woodyard can easily use agility, finesse, and leverage to get by him. Now you have Dumervil coming off the edge, using leverage, finesse, and possibly a bull rush, while you have Matthews coming up the middle to collapse the pocket, all while Mr. Run Stuffer and Vickerson display their few pass rushing skills as typical DTs and simply hold their blocks.

And then while all this is happening, you have 5 dropping back into coverage, with a S and LB to take the TE and FB, and a S to help over the top.

One of the most successful blitzing plays in the NFL, made possible because of Peterson, not Dareus.

[toothpick]

There are MANY ways and styles to build a Defense on and or around no one way is wrong but if you can get a Future probowl corner to EVENTUALLY replace champ and get a guy is proven to play well up front why not? TWO good players beat one good player any day in my book..

[Kyousukeneko]

i'd still go dareus then austin or dearus then DT over haynesworth. he is not worth his trouble

[THEdraftnik]

Ugh. You just don't get it...

You've admitted the main reason Dareus would be picked is to stop the run. Your trying to say he's going to "make everybody better" is absolutely ridiculous and contradicting.

Let's use a simple example of a 43 6 man rush play. It's quite popular and well known, sometimes being called "free fire".

Your front 4 blitzes, along with your MLB in the 3 gap and WLB around the edge. Say the MLB is Casey Matthews and the WLB is Wesley Woodyard, just hypothetically. (I honestly don't care if a player is in the right position or not, its all hypothetical, they're just player identifiers)

You have Dumervil taking on the LT, Vickerson taking the LG, Dareus taking the C, Ayers taking the RT.

You have Matthews shooting up the middle in between Vickerson and Dareus who try to spread the blockers to create a substantial gap. Say the RG tries to take him, now he's trying to make a move on the RG. Woodyard is coming around Ayers and has the RB in front of him.

So, worst case scenario, you have everyone 1v1 if the offense blocks it perfectly, and your guy, Mr. Run Stuffer does not make the play because he only impacts the guy he's being blocked by, showing off his mediocre moves quite replacable by Justin Bannan.

Typically, the RG won't slide in to get Matthews, it'll slide out to grab Woodyard and Woodyard can easily use agility, finesse, and leverage to get by him. Now you have Dumervil coming off the edge, using leverage, finesse, and possibly a bull rush, while you have Matthews coming up the middle to collapse the pocket, all while Mr. Run Stuffer and Vickerson display their few pass rushing skills as typical DTs and simply hold their blocks.

And then while all this is happening, you have 5 dropping back into coverage, with a S and LB to take the TE and FB, and a S to help over the top.

One of the most successful blitzing plays in the NFL, made possible because of Peterson, not Dareus.

In the free fire play, one player must draw a double up the middle, or Casey Mathews runs rught into the wall of lineman. And Bannan and company make no push up the middle, and the quarterback ultimately steps up into the pocket and throws to an open receiver.

With Dareus in the play, Mathews will be left without a blocker because if Dareus doesnt get doubled, he will make the play. He will push his man so far into the play, you will get either a sack or a hurry. And hurries result in bad throws. Bad throws are picked off.

I know this is hard to comprehend, but go play Madden tonight and get a defensive line of allstars, and a secondary full of backups. You will still have good coverage despite your bad secondary.

[SoundsOfSuccess]

In the free fire play, one player must draw a double up the middle, or Casey Mathews runs rught into the wall of lineman. And Bannan and company make no push up the middle, and the quarterback ultimately steps up into the pocket and throws to an open receiver.

With Dareus in the play, Mathews will be left without a blocker because if Dareus doesnt get doubled, he will make the play. He will push his man so far into the play, you will get either a sack or a hurry. And hurries result in bad throws. Bad throws are picked off.

I know this is hard to comprehend, but go play Madden tonight and get a defensive line of allstars, and a secondary full of backups. You will still have good coverage despite your bad secondary.

You just restated what I said, except made up some BS about how Dareus is a more effective pass rusher than Dumervil and Ayers and Woodyard/Matthews vs a RB.

BTW, don't ever reference Madden. I fumble over 6 times a game in Madden, its awful, lol.

[THEdraftnik]

You just restated what I said, except made up some BS about how Dareus is a more effective pass rusher than Dumervil and Ayers and Woodyard/Matthews vs a RB.

BTW, don't ever reference Madden. I fumble over 6 times a game in Madden, its awful, lol.

Its not bs. Im not saying Dareus is better than Doom. But I dont he will be nearly as effective as he was as a linebacker. My point, was that Dareus can beat a single team, with ease. Bannan cant. Jarvis Jenkins cant. Paea comes close, but his injury is still pretty serious.

But on the madden note, I agree. And it always happens in the worst times for me.

[SoundsOfSuccess]

Its not bs. Im not saying Dareus is better than Doom. But I dont he will be nearly as effective as he was as a linebacker. My point, was that Dareus can beat a single team, with ease. Bannan cant. Jarvis Jenkins cant. Paea comes close, but his injury is still pretty serious.

But on the madden note, I agree. And it always happens in the worst times for me.

Well, not to seem like I'm arguing just to argue, but Dareus can beat a college single team with ease. Put him up against Logan Mankins and we'll see how he does...