first post

[ironfootball39]

While I believe Doom will still be effective as a pass rusher, I do have concerns about his ability to stop the run. Even as a pass rusher, he hasn't historically done as well at DE as he did in 09 as an OLB. I truly believe we are hamstringing him somewhat by moving back to a 4-3.

Don't get me wrong, I still expect Doom to have some sacks this year, I just don't expect the numbers to be at the level they were in 09 when he was playing the OLB in a 3-4. We will see what happens, I'd certainly love to eat crow on this one!

Perfect response. Think there is concern enough from decreased potential after this position change to warrant Jon fox or elway to think about trading him? Not a good idea to think about but they must evaluate every player

[knoxman36and2]

While I believe Doom will still be effective as a pass rusher, I do have concerns about his ability to stop the run. Even as a pass rusher, he hasn't historically done as well at DE as he did in 09 as an OLB. I truly believe we are hamstringing him somewhat by moving back to a 4-3.

Don't get me wrong, I still expect Doom to have some sacks this year, I just don't expect the numbers to be at the level they were in 09 when he was playing the OLB in a 3-4. We will see what happens, I'd certainly love to eat crow on this one!

[THEdraftnik]

true, but you did say Fox has a history of using undersized DEs and used Brown as an example. That isn't really true unless you count on ST and in a rotation with very limited playing time.

Well, I was too lazy to look up any others. Brown was the first to come to mind.

Doom>>>>> Brown

So I think you will see Fox utilize Doom in the same ways, just more frequently.

[broncos SB2010]

My post didnt say he was.

true, but you did say Fox has a history of using undersized DEs and used Brown as an example. That isn't really true unless you count on ST and in a rotation with very limited playing time.

[THEdraftnik]

Brown has 3 starts in 2 years. Not really a huge part of the defense.

My post didnt say he was.

[broncos SB2010]

I was thinking of Everette Brown, who is only slighty bigger than Doom.

Brown has 3 starts in 2 years. Not really a huge part of the defense.

[broncos SB2010]

You just named 3 out of 30 DEs who are huge. I'll even give you Greg Hardy.

2/6 of his current DEs are not average height guys.

You have to remember none of those other guys are starters and Fox had zero say in the past draft. He and the personnel department did not agree on who they should draft So I wouldn't take too much stock in the recent acquistions at DE as being how Fox likes his players.

Carolina's current DEs

Brayton..6-6, 280..45 starts in 3 years with panthers...current starter
Everette Brown..6-1, 256 3 starts in 2 years
Hardy..6-4, 277...0 starts as a rookie but outplayed Brown with less playing time
Johnson..6-2, 275...20 starts in 4 years..current starter

Hilee Taylor...6-2, 250..0 starts, not on 2010 roster

Norwood is an OLB, not a DE. In reality they only had 4 DEs on their roster and only 1 of them was under 275 and only 1 was under 6-2.

Since 2005 the only other DEs to start are:
Kindal Moorehead in 2007, 6-2, 287, 1 start
Al wallace in 2006, 6-5, 275, 1 start and 2 starts in 2005

Tell me how how much Fox likes the shorter, smaller DEs.

[SoundsOfSuccess]

You just named 3 out of 30 DEs who are huge. I'll even give you Greg Hardy.

2/6 of his current DEs are not average height guys.

His DEs last season my bad*

[SoundsOfSuccess]

Fox has no NFL history, that I am aware of, starting undersized DEs. His DE have always been 6-5, 275+. Peppers, Brayton, Rucker, and this past year Johnson (who is the smallest at 6-2, 275), were Fox' starting DE his whole time in Carolina baring injury.

You just named 3 out of 30 DEs who are huge. I'll even give you Greg Hardy.

2/6 of his current DEs are not average height guys.

[THEdraftnik]

Fox has no NFL history, that I am aware of, starting undersized DEs. His DE have always been 6-5, 275+. Peppers, Brayton, Rucker, and this past year Johnson (who is the smallest at 6-2, 275), were Fox' starting DE his whole time in Carolina baring injury.

I was thinking of Everette Brown, who is only slighty bigger than Doom.

[broncos SB2010]

Welcome.

I would have to say, that I am scared of Doom potentially starting at 1 end, and having a rookie next to him. But IF we draft Dareus, it should help even things out for Doom and he wont be manhandled on every play.

Fox has used mammoth defensive tackles and undersized defensive ends before. So I think what will end up happening, is a combo of Vickerson and some other 320 pound defensive tackle. Vickerson would likely baloon up to around 330. That way, both Vick and the rook will draw double teams and Doom will get a single. Ayers has already proved very capable against the run, so he definently isnt a problem at strong side defensive end.

Just my :2cents:

Fox has no NFL history, that I am aware of, starting undersized DEs. His DE have always been 6-5, 275+. Peppers, Brayton, Rucker, and this past year Johnson (who is the smallest at 6-2, 275), were Fox' starting DE his whole time in Carolina baring injury.

[broncos SB2010]

Welcome to the boards!

Von Miller is 3 inches taller than Elvis and has a much leaner build. He would get absolutely destroyed at DE, IMO.

Elvis was close to 260 when he played DE. Miller is probably his heaviest at 245. I could see him bulking up to 250 in the pros, but still, he doesn't have the squatty build or low center of gravity that Elvis has.

anyway, good discussion...

I agree with this. I have no idea what people are talking about when they mention Von Miller playing DE, even in a rotation as a situational player. I think he would get batted like a fly by the OT.

[THEdraftnik]

Hi all! This is my first post so I will try my best not to sound like a newbie.

This has probably been brought up before but I did not see it so I made an account to share my opinion. A lot of people have said that von miller would be too small for a 4-3 de but what about doom? Is anybody worried about his production like I am? He excelled at that farther out 3-4 olb location. In a more interior role I would think his size would not allow him to be as efficient.

I agree that we need to get beefed up on the dl if we switch but does that mean doom too? Is coverage packages or 4-3 under/over enough to utilize him. Do we need to get larger like seymore or other larger de's in the 4-3 system.

Well first one like I said and its on a thunderbolt in my stockroom. Excuse grammatical errors.
Go Broncos!

Welcome.

I would have to say, that I am scared of Doom potentially starting at 1 end, and having a rookie next to him. But IF we draft Dareus, it should help even things out for Doom and he wont be manhandled on every play.

Fox has used mammoth defensive tackles and undersized defensive ends before. So I think what will end up happening, is a combo of Vickerson and some other 320 pound defensive tackle. Vickerson would likely baloon up to around 330. That way, both Vick and the rook will draw double teams and Doom will get a single. Ayers has already proved very capable against the run, so he definently isnt a problem at strong side defensive end.

Just my :2cents:

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Welcome to the boards!

Von Miller is 3 inches taller than Elvis and has a much leaner build. He would get absolutely destroyed at DE, IMO.

Elvis was close to 260 when he played DE. Miller is probably his heaviest at 245. I could see him bulking up to 250 in the pros, but still, he doesn't have the squatty build or low center of gravity that Elvis has.

anyway, good discussion...

[broncos SB2010]

Hi all! This is my first post so I will try my best not to sound like a newbie.

This has probably been brought up before but I did not see it so I made an account to share my opinion. A lot of people have said that von miller would be too small for a 4-3 de but what about doom? Is anybody worried about his production like I am? He excelled at that farther out 3-4 olb location. In a more interior role I would think his size would not allow him to be as efficient.

I agree that we need to get beefed up on the dl if we switch but does that mean doom too? Is coverage packages or 4-3 under/over enough to utilize him. Do we need to get larger like seymore or other larger de's in the 4-3 system.

Well first one like I said and its on a thunderbolt in my stockroom. Excuse grammatical errors.
Go Broncos!

Welcome to the boards!!

As some have already posted, this is a heated debate topic around here and both sides have their ardent supporters. I am one of the people who think that DOOM is over rated as a 4-3 DE and really only had 1 decent year (2007) in that position. He gets pressure on the QB but is below average in almost every other aspect of the position. I still believe his best role would be as a situational pass rusher and getting a better all around DE to come in and start. I think Kerrigan or Quinn would be good options to try and upgrade that position.