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  • Ability to Coach > Free Agency moves

    Trust me, I am frustrated with our inability to get defensive free agents, but coaching ability will ALWAYS trump free agent pickups. Our defense tanked ever since we lost Al Wilson and Larry Coyer was shown the door. Mike Nolan had this defensive unit really going, we were among the best defenses until McBean got hurt and we sort of just lost confidence and attention to detail.

    I don't know if you guys remember just how awful our defensive line was that year, but we were starting Ryan McBean, Kenny Peterson, and Ronald Fields backed up by... well crap really. He then goes to the Dolphins, with definitely better talent than we had, and turned them into a legitimate top 10 defense, and easily good enough for a top 5 squad (they were 6th I believe, and 5th in rushing) and turned Cameron Wake from an average player into one of the best 3-4 OLB's.

    The point is he knew how to coach, he knew how to call plays, and he know how to put together a good defensive scheme.

    I think we're overreacting a bit to our lack of free agency splashes. Fox is a defensive coach, he knows how to put a good defensive unit together, and knows how to put players in the right position to succeed. He's done it his entire career. He loses Julius Peppers and "out of nowhere" comes 25 year old Charles Johnson and lands one of the biggest defensive contracts in NFL history. The Panthers had a strong defense, but they were consistently let down by perhaps one of the most anemic offenses I've ever seen due to the ineptitude of Jimmy Clausen and Matt Moore.

    Trust me, I want me some Brandon Mebane, some Cullen Jenkins, I want some of those good guys, but what are they without good coaching? Not much. The Redskins throw gobs of money at players every single year, and they generally turn out to be total crap pickups. The players aren't bad, they just don't have good coaching.

    I just think we need to calm down and realize that we have good coaches. We had a lot of crap on offense last year when you really think about it, and yes McDaniels is not the best GM figure, but he knows how to coach an offense and got a crap load out of it. I expect similar things to happen with Fox and our defense over the coming seasons.

    I completely agree with the idea that we need some solid players in the middle of our defense, and we're lacking them at the moment, and it's frustrating. I'm not saying Fox is going to turn us into a top 5 defense with nothing in the interior of our defense, but I would make a bet with any one of you that we won't be anywhere near as bad as we have been the last few seasons. The NFL is made by coaches, not by players. I completely believe that, and Fox is a good defensive coach.

  • #2
    Great post, Hoser.

    I agree about the value of coaching. At the pro level, it's a matter of getting their attention and getting them to study. Rookies have never in their lives had this much time on a daily basis to devote to the game.

    I'm very curious to see how much freedom John Fox will give Dennis Allen to design and call the D. Everything points to a fast attacking unit using multiple fronts. I will find observing it in detail very interesting.

    John Fox has said the Broncos running game will be the most sophisticated in the NFL. I will be very interested to see exactly what that will be. IMO to be sophisticated means running effectively from all formations including spread gun.

    On top of it all is how well the position coaches can teach their guys the basic skills, terminology, the system and the weekly gameplan. That's what it's all about in football; coaches working with players during the week to see what they can do on gameday.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

    Comment


    • #3
      Areed. Obviously we need talent and players. We also have too many holes to be fixed in one off-season.

      I'll wait till the dust settles before I real form an opinion. I'd like to have seen more of a splash, but without knowing what's going on behind the scenes I'm not going to complain too much.

      Comment


      • #4
        I wonder why Bill Walsh could never win at Stanford.

        Comment


        • #5
          I wonder why the Panthers were so horrible last year under Fox.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Hoserman117 View Post
            Trust me, I am frustrated with our inability to get defensive free agents, but coaching ability will ALWAYS trump free agent pickups. Our defense tanked ever since we lost Al Wilson and Larry Coyer was shown the door. Mike Nolan had this defensive unit really going, we were among the best defenses until McBean got hurt and we sort of just lost confidence and attention to detail.

            I don't know if you guys remember just how awful our defensive line was that year, but we were starting Ryan McBean, Kenny Peterson, and Ronald Fields backed up by... well crap really. He then goes to the Dolphins, with definitely better talent than we had, and turned them into a legitimate top 10 defense, and easily good enough for a top 5 squad (they were 6th I believe, and 5th in rushing) and turned Cameron Wake from an average player into one of the best 3-4 OLB's.

            The point is he knew how to coach, he knew how to call plays, and he know how to put together a good defensive scheme.

            I think we're overreacting a bit to our lack of free agency splashes. Fox is a defensive coach, he knows how to put a good defensive unit together, and knows how to put players in the right position to succeed. He's done it his entire career. He loses Julius Peppers and "out of nowhere" comes 25 year old Charles Johnson and lands one of the biggest defensive contracts in NFL history. The Panthers had a strong defense, but they were consistently let down by perhaps one of the most anemic offenses I've ever seen due to the ineptitude of Jimmy Clausen and Matt Moore.

            Trust me, I want me some Brandon Mebane, some Cullen Jenkins, I want some of those good guys, but what are they without good coaching? Not much. The Redskins throw gobs of money at players every single year, and they generally turn out to be total crap pickups. The players aren't bad, they just don't have good coaching.

            I just think we need to calm down and realize that we have good coaches. We had a lot of crap on offense last year when you really think about it, and yes McDaniels is not the best GM figure, but he knows how to coach an offense and got a crap load out of it. I expect similar things to happen with Fox and our defense over the coming seasons.

            I completely agree with the idea that we need some solid players in the middle of our defense, and we're lacking them at the moment, and it's frustrating. I'm not saying Fox is going to turn us into a top 5 defense with nothing in the interior of our defense, but I would make a bet with any one of you that we won't be anywhere near as bad as we have been the last few seasons. The NFL is made by coaches, not by players. I completely believe that, and Fox is a good defensive coach.
            I don't disagree, it's just that you can have great coaching, but if your FO doesn't get you the talent, you won't win period
            "Happiness is just an illusion, filled with sadness and confusion." Jimmy Ruffin

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Hoserman117 View Post
              Trust me, I am frustrated with our inability to get defensive free agents, but coaching ability will ALWAYS trump free agent pickups. Our defense tanked ever since we lost Al Wilson and Larry Coyer was shown the door. Mike Nolan had this defensive unit really going, we were among the best defenses until McBean got hurt and we sort of just lost confidence and attention to detail.

              I don't know if you guys remember just how awful our defensive line was that year, but we were starting Ryan McBean, Kenny Peterson, and Ronald Fields backed up by... well crap really. He then goes to the Dolphins, with definitely better talent than we had, and turned them into a legitimate top 10 defense, and easily good enough for a top 5 squad (they were 6th I believe, and 5th in rushing) and turned Cameron Wake from an average player into one of the best 3-4 OLB's.

              The point is he knew how to coach, he knew how to call plays, and he know how to put together a good defensive scheme.

              I think we're overreacting a bit to our lack of free agency splashes. Fox is a defensive coach, he knows how to put a good defensive unit together, and knows how to put players in the right position to succeed. He's done it his entire career. He loses Julius Peppers and "out of nowhere" comes 25 year old Charles Johnson and lands one of the biggest defensive contracts in NFL history. The Panthers had a strong defense, but they were consistently let down by perhaps one of the most anemic offenses I've ever seen due to the ineptitude of Jimmy Clausen and Matt Moore.

              Trust me, I want me some Brandon Mebane, some Cullen Jenkins, I want some of those good guys, but what are they without good coaching? Not much. The Redskins throw gobs of money at players every single year, and they generally turn out to be total crap pickups. The players aren't bad, they just don't have good coaching.

              I just think we need to calm down and realize that we have good coaches. We had a lot of crap on offense last year when you really think about it, and yes McDaniels is not the best GM figure, but he knows how to coach an offense and got a crap load out of it. I expect similar things to happen with Fox and our defense over the coming seasons.

              I completely agree with the idea that we need some solid players in the middle of our defense, and we're lacking them at the moment, and it's frustrating. I'm not saying Fox is going to turn us into a top 5 defense with nothing in the interior of our defense, but I would make a bet with any one of you that we won't be anywhere near as bad as we have been the last few seasons. The NFL is made by coaches, not by players. I completely believe that, and Fox is a good defensive coach.
              I agree and I don't think it's the end of the world like some here seem to think that Mebane is not coming to Denver. My top DT choice is still available and I guess we are in the hunt for him too...Cullen Jenkins. Then there is always Bannan and Thomas still available who are not top of the line but are not bottom of the barrel either. In addition Aubrayo Franklin is out there as well who some consider the best DT in FA this year. I have not lost hope at all. I didn't even think Mebane would be an option because I didn't think he fit in well with what I think they will be running here. If they sign both Jenkins and Franklin everyone will be going....brilliant...I knew they would get it done!!!! Sometimes people are sooo fickle and have no patience for the big picture. I am going to wait until the roster is set before I rush to any judgments and I still think we will be a better team this coming season than we were last season.
              sigpic

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by HUMCALC View Post
                I don't disagree, it's just that you can have great coaching, but if your FO doesn't get you the talent, you won't win period
                Napoleon Said, "I would rather have an army of rabbits led by a lion rather than an army of lions led by a rabbit." or something to that effect.
                "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by thenewera44 View Post
                  I wonder why Bill Walsh could never win at Stanford.
                  The difference in talent at the college level is lightyears distant from the NFL.

                  Hoser: I've been saying similar things for the past few days. I'd love to trade for Suh... but realistically, I expect a decent to good turnaround on Defense at least just from having Fox and Allen. We were so horrible last season on defense, wow.

                  We're probably going to end up with some journeyman DTs out of FA. That's never worked well for us (though the big name DTs never really have either)... but Fox will get more out of them than our previous coaches (Nolan excluded) could.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                    I agree and I don't think it's the end of the world like some here seem to think that Mebane is not coming to Denver. My top DT choice is still available and I guess we are in the hunt for him too...Cullen Jenkins. Then there is always Bannan and Thomas still available who are not top of the line but are not bottom of the barrel either. In addition Aubrayo Franklin is out there as well who some consider the best DT in FA this year. I have not lost hope at all. I didn't even think Mebane would be an option because I didn't think he fit in well with what I think they will be running here. If they sign both Jenkins and Franklin everyone will be going....brilliant...I knew they would get it done!!!! Sometimes people are sooo fickle and have no patience for the big picture. I am going to wait until the roster is set before I rush to any judgments and I still think we will be a better team this coming season than we were last season.
                    I'll probably wait even beyond the roster being set. I'm sure I'll be dissatisfied with it in the end... but I'll wait and see. If they come out and play well... nobody's really going to care.

                    If they don't... then it makes a bunch more sense to be upset. Right now, it's just kinda silly especially since it seems Mebane gave a pretty decent hometown discount to Seattle.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                      Napoleon Said, "I would rather have an army of rabbits led by a lion rather than an army of lions led by a rabbit." or something to that effect.
                      Our Lion hasn't done anything + Napoleon the guy who got slaughtered at Waterloo & was potentially poisoned by his own men? That's who you quote
                      "Happiness is just an illusion, filled with sadness and confusion." Jimmy Ruffin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by thenewera44 View Post
                        I wonder why the Panthers were so horrible last year under Fox.
                        They didn't get a solution at QB once Jake Delhomme started sucking and left the team, they definitely didn't lose because of lack of defensive talent. They had a good O-line, running game, adequate receivers, but crap at the QB spot.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Get your facts straight.

                          Originally posted by thenewera44 View Post
                          I wonder why Bill Walsh could never win at Stanford.
                          Bill Walsh was an assistant for Paul Brown with the Cincinnati Bengals from 1968-1975. Apparently some NFL teams asked Brown about talking to Walsh as a HC candidate, but Brown always told them he wasn't HC material. It seems that Brown concealed this from Walsh.

                          Bill Walsh left Cincinnati to be OC for the San Diego Chargers in 1976. The following year he became HC at Stanford. Walsh was HC at Stanford in 1977 and 1978. In 1977 the Cardinal were 9-3. In 1978 they were 8-4.

                          In 1979 Bill Walsh became HC of the San Francisco 49ers. The next ten years and three Super Bowl Championships (XVI, XIX, XXIII), as they say, are history.

                          Four years after retiring from the 49ers, Bill Walsh returned to Stanford to be HC from 1992-1994. He was 17-17-1 during that stint. All together, Bill Walsh was 34-24-1 at Stanford. If that's your definition of never winning, I'll take it.

                          Bill Walsh coached high school, college and pro. He was .584 at Stanford and .609 at San Francisco. He was also the last offensive innovator in the NFL. His coaching career ended in 1994. He returned to the 49ers from 1999-2004 as VP, GM and consultant. His coaching tree includes over twenty current and former NFL head coaches including John Fox. He is in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Requiescat in pace, Bill Walsh.
                          "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hoserman117 View Post
                            Trust me, I am frustrated with our inability to get defensive free agents, but coaching ability will ALWAYS trump free agent pickups. Our defense tanked ever since we lost Al Wilson and Larry Coyer was shown the door. Mike Nolan had this defensive unit really going, we were among the best defenses until McBean got hurt and we sort of just lost confidence and attention to detail.

                            I don't know if you guys remember just how awful our defensive line was that year, but we were starting Ryan McBean, Kenny Peterson, and Ronald Fields backed up by... well crap really. He then goes to the Dolphins, with definitely better talent than we had, and turned them into a legitimate top 10 defense, and easily good enough for a top 5 squad (they were 6th I believe, and 5th in rushing) and turned Cameron Wake from an average player into one of the best 3-4 OLB's.

                            The point is he knew how to coach, he knew how to call plays, and he know how to put together a good defensive scheme.

                            I think we're overreacting a bit to our lack of free agency splashes. Fox is a defensive coach, he knows how to put a good defensive unit together, and knows how to put players in the right position to succeed. He's done it his entire career. He loses Julius Peppers and "out of nowhere" comes 25 year old Charles Johnson and lands one of the biggest defensive contracts in NFL history. The Panthers had a strong defense, but they were consistently let down by perhaps one of the most anemic offenses I've ever seen due to the ineptitude of Jimmy Clausen and Matt Moore.

                            Trust me, I want me some Brandon Mebane, some Cullen Jenkins, I want some of those good guys, but what are they without good coaching? Not much. The Redskins throw gobs of money at players every single year, and they generally turn out to be total crap pickups. The players aren't bad, they just don't have good coaching.

                            I just think we need to calm down and realize that we have good coaches. We had a lot of crap on offense last year when you really think about it, and yes McDaniels is not the best GM figure, but he knows how to coach an offense and got a crap load out of it. I expect similar things to happen with Fox and our defense over the coming seasons.

                            I completely agree with the idea that we need some solid players in the middle of our defense, and we're lacking them at the moment, and it's frustrating. I'm not saying Fox is going to turn us into a top 5 defense with nothing in the interior of our defense, but I would make a bet with any one of you that we won't be anywhere near as bad as we have been the last few seasons. The NFL is made by coaches, not by players. I completely believe that, and Fox is a good defensive coach.
                            Great post..........................

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                              Bill Walsh was an assistant for Paul Brown with the Cincinnati Bengals from 1968-1975. Apparently some NFL teams asked Brown about talking to Walsh as a HC candidate, but Brown always told them he wasn't HC material. It seems that Brown concealed this from Walsh.

                              Bill Walsh left Cincinnati to be OC for the San Diego Chargers in 1976. The following year he became HC at Stanford. Walsh was HC at Stanford in 1977 and 1978. In 1977 the Cardinal were 9-3. In 1978 they were 8-4.

                              In 1979 Bill Walsh became HC of the San Francisco 49ers. The next ten years and three Super Bowl Championships (XVI, XIX, XXIII), as they say, are history.

                              Four years after retiring from the 49ers, Bill Walsh returned to Stanford to be HC from 1992-1994. He was 17-17-1 during that stint. All together, Bill Walsh was 34-24-1 at Stanford. If that's your definition of never winning, I'll take it.

                              Bill Walsh coached high school, college and pro. He was .584 at Stanford and .609 at San Francisco. He was also the last offensive innovator in the NFL. His coaching career ended in 1994. He returned to the 49ers from 1999-2004 as VP, GM and consultant. His coaching tree includes over twenty current and former NFL head coaches including John Fox. He is in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Requiescat in pace, Bill Walsh.
                              Ok, he won. Sort of.

                              You think he would have won a few more games if he was coaching USC or Notre Dame in the 70s?

                              My overall point is talent is rather crucial.

                              Comment

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