Marcel Dareus

[Joshecalpoly]

I saw him in your mock, but I didn't really want to comment on him in some other thread. I had a minor argument on the Orange Mane forum concerning him a month or so ago. I don't have him in my top draft prospects at DT, and I have spent some time on him. I think some of his production was due to teams gearing for Jenkins and Bowers. He'll have Branch this year to help, but I think he takes a step back.

I have him as a quasi NT for a 43 team, very similar player to Marcus Thomas. I think late 2nd - 3rd round area when it's all said and done. I understand National and BLESTO like him. I understand he's the chic pick right now at DT. I just like a few other prospects better, specifically:


My DT Rankings (Preseason (July)):

1. Kawann Short, JR, Purdue
2. Fletcher Cox, JR, Mississippi State
3. Jerel Worthy, JR, Michigan State
4. AJ Francis, JR, Maryland
5. Jared Crick, SR, Nebraska
6. Marcus Forston, JR, Miami
7. J.R. Sweezy, SR, NC State
8. Devon Still, SR, Penn State
9. Dontari Poe, JR, Memphis
10. Tydreke Powell, SR, North Carolina
11. Kendall Reyes, SR, UCONN
12. Micanor Regis, SR, Miami
13. Derek Wolfe, JR, Cincinatti
14. Kheeston Randall, SR, Texas
15. Jewhan Edwards, SR, Minnesota


and the rest under watch:

Izaan Cross, Joe Vellano, Josh Boyd, Baker Steinkuhler, Brandon Thompson, Ethan Johnson, DaJohn Harris, Alameda Ta'amu, Nicolas Jean-Baptiste, Domonique Hamilton, Tony Jerod-Eddie, Josh Chapman, Trevian Robertson.



Now, granted, these rankings are going to drastically change over the course of the season. If Thompson lights it up, I'll move him up. I do probably have him too low right now, but I wanted to slip some of my sleepers into my Top 15 list for conversation pieces. Thompson is the type of player I do tend to undervalue however, I completely missed on Corey Liuget last year.

I should have a strong grasp on the various DTs by the colleigate quarter point. At that point in time, I'll feel comfortable defending or attacking various prospects, with it getting more aggressive and assurred as the season rolls on. Right now, pretty much any and every DT could be a good one. My list is based on established production and research into their character and athletic talents. Very little off of tape.

Would you have missed Short if I hadnt told you about him a year ago lol? I am glad your on the Short train lol, he even exceeded my expectations, but I am worried without a strong 2nd D-line like Rowe he will be targeted more for double teams, he had a lot last year and did wonderful with them but when the line is worried about 2 players escaping its easy for them to lose focus.

If Harrell can get the weight and keep it he will be this years surprise, but Thompson certainly looked like Liuget did in 09, only Liuget even then was more of a disruptive player and Thompson is better at bringing down RB's

Ranking of DT (Mike Daniels and Logan Harrel not included due to low weight class)
1 Jared Crick Nebraska
2 Kawann Short Purdue
3 J.R. Sweezy NC State
4 Kendall Reyes UConn
5 Travian Robertson South Carolina
6 Kheeston Randall Texas
7 Marcus Forston Miami
8 Jerel Worthy Michigan State
9 Brandon Thompson Clemson
10 Micanor Regis Miami
11 Fletcher Cox Mississippi State
12 Devon Still Penn State
13 Derek Wolfe Cincinnati
14 Dontari Poe Memphis
15 Armond Armstead USC
16 A.J. Francis Maryland
17 Jaye Howard Florida
18 Baker Steinkuhler Nebraska
19 Jacobbi McDaniel Florida State
20 Mike Martin Michigan
21 Tydreke Powell UNC
22 Kaniela Tuipulotu Hawaii
23 Terrell Resonno Missouri
24 Josh Chapman Alabama
25 Tony Jerod-Eddie Texas A&M
26 Deangelo Tyson Georgia
27 Omar Hunter Florida
28 Kerry Murphy Alabama

I thought the same way but after watching I realized Thompson was on the field longer then either of them and he still managed to be productive. I think he will regress but mainly from the fact hes now the focus on the D-line and the game plan is to take him out. The 2 that worry me are Regis and Forston who feed off each other a lot which is why I think they need a closer look

Short maybe a player ive been absolutely waiting for in the last few years but I cannot deny if they were Crick has shown a lot more and developed well. However, give Short enough time to do the same and I have little doubt he will be better.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

Would you have missed Short if I hadnt told you about him a year ago lol? I am glad your on the Short train lol, he even exceeded my expectations, but I am worried without a strong 2nd D-line like Rowe he will be targeted more for double teams, he had a lot last year and did wonderful with them but when the line is worried about 2 players escaping its easy for them to lose focus.

If Harrell can get the weight and keep it he will be this years surprise, but Thompson certainly looked like Liuget did in 09, only Liuget even then was more of a disruptive player and Thompson is better at bringing down RB's

Ranking of DT (Mike Daniels and Logan Harrel not included due to low weight class)
1 Jared Crick Nebraska
2 Kawann Short Purdue
3 J.R. Sweezy NC State
4 Kendall Reyes UConn
5 Travian Robertson South Carolina
6 Kheeston Randall Texas
7 Marcus Forston Miami
8 Jerel Worthy Michigan State
9 Brandon Thompson Clemson
10 Micanor Regis Miami
11 Fletcher Cox Mississippi State
12 Devon Still Penn State
13 Derek Wolfe Cincinnati
14 Dontari Poe Memphis
15 Armond Armstead USC
16 A.J. Francis Maryland
17 Jaye Howard Florida
18 Baker Steinkuhler Nebraska
19 Jacobbi McDaniel Florida State
20 Mike Martin Michigan
21 Tydreke Powell UNC
22 Kaniela Tuipulotu Hawaii
23 Terrell Resonno Missouri
24 Josh Chapman Alabama
25 Tony Jerod-Eddie Texas A&M
26 Deangelo Tyson Georgia
27 Omar Hunter Florida
28 Kerry Murphy Alabama

I thought the same way but after watching I realized Thompson was on the field longer then either of them and he still managed to be productive. I think he will regress but mainly from the fact hes now the focus on the D-line and the game plan is to take him out. The 2 that worry me are Regis and Forston who feed off each other a lot which is why I think they need a closer look

Short maybe a player ive been absolutely waiting for in the last few years but I cannot deny if they were Crick has shown a lot more and developed well. However, give Short enough time to do the same and I have little doubt he will be better.

Good stuff. You may have actually gotten me interested in Short. I usually don't get too involved with Freshmen and Sophomores. What I did to create my preseason list is I go to this website:

http://www.cfbstats.com/2010/team/index.html

And I go through every single team, and I click on every single DT that was a Sophomore or Junior. I have a preset production ratio in my head depending on conference. I compare that with size. and I make a list of intriguing prospects. Than I just spend weeks doing google searches about them. What do their coaches say? Do they have any athleticism information available? Have they been arrested? All that stuff. And I take lots and lots of notes.

At which point, the cream has risen to the crop usually. You find out a guy like Fletcher Cox might run a 4.5 40 at 300 lbs. You find out Dontari Poe is the strongest guy his teammates have ever seen, a team leader, and called the Hulk by some. You find out Jerel Worthy is considered a Tim Tebow style leader and person.

So based off that research, the statistical production, the size, the conferences and competition, and any game tape I might find on You Tube, I make my lists. I really can't imagine real scouts do it much differently. They would just get financed to go see the player in person, film them, talk to them, and have that little extra amount to go on.

As the collegiate season plays on, I'll make sure to catch certain games to scout talent, so I can form a personal opinion. I'll update my rankings each quarter point of the season. And you just stay current on buzz names that other draftniks are spitting out. I try my best to say the names before others, typical draftnik oneupmanship. You and I do that at times as well. And I enjoy it.

But anyway, I've got a list of every decent DT, DE, and CB in Division 1 college completed, investigated, and ranked. If you have an sleepers you think I may have missed, tell me about them, especially at DT. I'll be happy to post some for you and share whatever notes I may have jotted down.

[MHSalute]

Man, I just do not see it with Kawann Short. I've tried, but I think he struggles this year and didn't really impress me last year.

[Joshecalpoly]

Good stuff. You may have actually gotten me interested in Short. I usually don't get too involved with Freshmen and Sophomores. What I did to create my preseason list is I go to this website:

http://www.cfbstats.com/2010/team/index.html

And I go through every single team, and I click on every single DT that was a Sophomore or Junior. I have a preset production ratio in my head depending on conference. I compare that with size. and I make a list of intriguing prospects. Than I just spend weeks doing google searches about them. What do their coaches say? Do they have any athleticism information available? Have they been arrested? All that stuff. And I take lots and lots of notes.

At which point, the cream has risen to the crop usually. You find out a guy like Fletcher Cox might run a 4.5 40 at 300 lbs. You find out Dontari Poe is the strongest guy his teammates have ever seen, a team leader, and called the Hulk by some. You find out Jerel Worthy is considered a Tim Tebow style leader and person.

So based off that research, the statistical production, the size, the conferences and competition, and any game tape I might find on You Tube, I make my lists. I really can't imagine real scouts do it much differently. They would just get financed to go see the player in person, film them, talk to them, and have that little extra amount to go on.

As the collegiate season plays on, I'll make sure to catch certain games to scout talent, so I can form a personal opinion. I'll update my rankings each quarter point of the season. And you just stay current on buzz names that other draftniks are spitting out. I try my best to say the names before others, typical draftnik oneupmanship. You and I do that at times as well. And I enjoy it.

But anyway, I've got a list of every decent DT, DE, and CB in Division 1 college completed, investigated, and ranked. If you have an sleepers you think I may have missed, tell me about them, especially at DT. I'll be happy to post some for you and share whatever notes I may have jotted down.

I use the same site and do statistical analysis to determine my rankings, i dont like to use athleticism and to be honest the character is something I try to play down till its time to come up with an offseason plan. I do use athleticism in some degrees as to whether or not that player is not within the standard deviation of athleticism a player at his position is required to be in. I prefer the certain drills like cone drills and shuttles for certain game movement necessary for those that need it, if I use the dash i prefer the 10 yard since it shows an ability to burst. My favorite though is endurance if a player shows signs of low endurance or fails an endurance test especially if thats a high drafted lineman Denver cannot afford to bring them here in hopes they improve.


Armond Armstead, he plays bigger then he is which is probably a big reason why is having chest pains. He did not have any medical problems found but it is a concern for now. His athleticism has allowed him to play as a force in most respects similar to Poe despite the 50lb difference. He'ld be best as a 3-4 DE but he still intrigues me.

Jaye Howards ability to get into the backfield and make plays is somewhere between Powe and Dareus but honestly thats all he seems good at.

I like Mike Daniels and Logan Harrell but it does not seem they will be at the proper weight for DT. Its a shame because if they gained 5-10 theyld be considered as hot commodities,

[Joshecalpoly]

Man, I just do not see it with Kawann Short. I've tried, but I think he struggles this year and didn't really impress me last year.

What impresses me was a few things he played starting NT his freshman year and displayed proper techniques and use of hands in the situations he was in. At 310 lbs. he demonstrated not only the ability but the knowledge to defend the pass on 3 huge plays 2 of which were INT's the other being tipped. Most contribute his actions to moving the Boilermakers up 50 spots in the rush defense rankings within a years time. What impresses me most was the way he moved for a big guy. He has a fluidity that reminds me of Raji and since Raji there hasnt been many NT who can get behind the line and do damage.

People look at the fact his tackles decrease and think he regressed but his ability to open and close running lanes has improved. His style of play has changed to become more aggressive, which is what we are looking for.

Oddly enough Short was the type of player we needed in the 3-4 when we were in it. His blocking and holding the line up front were remarkable for a young player then when we switched to a defense that needs lineman to be disruptive Purdue had him do the same and you find many D's that fit that strategy better at least not as his size and skill level.

[MHSalute]

Oddly enough Short was the type of player we needed in the 3-4 when we were in it. His blocking and holding the line up front were remarkable for a young player then when we switched to a defense that needs lineman to be disruptive Purdue had him do the same and you find many D's that fit that strategy better at least not as his size and skill level.

I can see him more as a 3-4 DE.

I have watched 5 games, and he just does not have what I look for, what I have been told to look for:

1. First guy off the snap, you want to find a stud? He almost always is the first guy off the snap. Short is never this guy, he is almost always the last guy.

2. Ability to play low, with leverage. I see a guy who plays very high. This is okay for a 3-4 DE (not preferable), but not for a DT...he will get killed playing high like he does in the NFL inside.

3. Ability to stay on his feet. Here Short does a good job, very athletic.

4. Violent hand punch. Once again, I just do not see it.

He could very well be a 3-4 DE. He has the balance and athleticism to have success there, where space will help him.

I am happy to keep an open mind and would love some links to see where he does any of the things I am talking about. Right now I think he is getting by on superior athleticism, that won't be there in the NFL.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

I can see him more as a 3-4 DE.

I have watched 5 games, and he just does not have what I look for, what I have been told to look for:

1. First guy off the snap, you want to find a stud? He almost always is the first guy off the snap. Short is never this guy, he is almost always the last guy.

2. Ability to play low, with leverage. I see a guy who plays very high. This is okay for a 3-4 DE (not preferable), but not for a DT...he will get killed playing high like he does in the NFL inside.

3. Ability to stay on his feet. Here Short does a good job, very athletic.

4. Violent hand punch. Once again, I just do not see it.

He could very well be a 3-4 DE. He has the balance and athleticism to have success there, where space will help him.

I am happy to keep an open mind and would love some links to see where he does any of the things I am talking about. Right now I think he is getting by on superior athleticism, that won't be there in the NFL.

I am anxious to see Short on tape this year. There is one stat over all others that I have discovered has a strong correlation with being a high NFL draft selection for D-linemen, and that is Tackles for Loss. The correlation is insanely high. Very similar to Passes Defended for CBs. The sacks and Ints are nice, but if a guy has 3 sacks and 20 stuffs, he usually goes way higher than the guy with 8 sacks and 10 stuffs.

At the end of the day, production in a major conference has a massive influence on the draft rating. So does athleticism and size. I feel like identifying potential elite players is incredibly easy.

Anyway, Kawann's production as a Sophomore was epic. In a major conference, he had 41 tackles, 13 stuffs, 5 sacks, 8 passes defended, and 2 blocked kicks. As a sophomore. He had a strong Freshman year as well. His athleticism for a NT is good. His size is solid at 6'3, 305-315. There's an awful lot to like here. There are similarities to Dareus.

I like to do filmwork, but I rarely do it until it's the year the prospect is likely to come out. So, for Short, that would be this year. Towards the end of the year, I really look forward to comparing thoughts on this prospect. His production is just staggering for such a young guy. He's another quasi NT type, similar player to Brandon Thompson. It will be interesting to see how these guys are ranked come draft time. I think Short has a good shot to be a Top 10 pick if he just continues to play like he has the last two years.

[Joshecalpoly]

I can see him more as a 3-4 DE.

I have watched 5 games, and he just does not have what I look for, what I have been told to look for:

1. First guy off the snap, you want to find a stud? He almost always is the first guy off the snap. Short is never this guy, he is almost always the last guy.

2. Ability to play low, with leverage. I see a guy who plays very high. This is okay for a 3-4 DE (not preferable), but not for a DT...he will get killed playing high like he does in the NFL inside.

3. Ability to stay on his feet. Here Short does a good job, very athletic.

4. Violent hand punch. Once again, I just do not see it.

He could very well be a 3-4 DE. He has the balance and athleticism to have success there, where space will help him.

I am happy to keep an open mind and would love some links to see where he does any of the things I am talking about. Right now I think he is getting by on superior athleticism, that won't be there in the NFL.

1. He usually is a good quick reactor and gets is teammates in the backfield farely quickly

2. Yes he plays high a bit to often for me which is something I cant say I like but does have a solid first punch to get away with it, this is something that can be improved with ease, so I am watching to see if it changes

3. He plays like a LB always moving towards the ball and rarely missing a step

4. Probably whats best about him is he does get a nice solid hit in the beginning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFbeZaffHcQ