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  • #31
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post
    Question is, does Elway buy into a Tebow style QB? I guess if he wins most of the time, we'll all buy into him.
    See, my problem is that I don't believe Tebow is just a certain "style" of QB. I think Fox is doing a really crappy job of conveying any confidence in him as a passer to the media. I've charted every throw, and I think Tebow is fine as a normal QB. We just don't have a pass blocking capable RT or LG, though we might if we swapped the two players, and our receiving corps can't catch the ball.

    If I'm Tebow, I tell Fox to shut the hell up about me not being able to play a conventional offense, and I put on the tape of the last 4 weeks to showcase what should have been 65% accurate passing.

    Fox wants to run and play defense. Foxball. He probably loves the fact he can turn his QB into another running threat. Carolina fans joked for years that if he could, Fox would either run or punt on every play and try to win 10-0. Well...they were right.

    I don't think any coach on this team knows how to develop a QB. Elway might, but he thinks Tebow can't hack it and doesn't waste his time. If EFX want to stay with the option based attack, they will need another gimicky QB, but that will be easy to find since nobody else is running this. I think we could run a normal attack this year with Tebow as a threat to scramble *if* the team had any sure-handed WRs or TEs, let alone 2 or 3, and if Orlando Franklin was not our RT.

    I choose to see this option usage with Tebow as more of a reflection on the team, specifically Franklin, Beadles, and our WRs/TEs, than just Tebow. I don't believe any QB could be successful as a pocket passer with our current offensive talent, and I think the Detroit game really drove that home.

    So, do I think EFX really want Tebow as their QB? No, I don't. Not at all. Do I think that's the correct evaluation? No, not at all.

    I still think we have a group of bumbling, stumbling doofuses leading this team. Fox is stubborn and wants to play Foxball. He honestly probably doesn't care who his QB is as long as he doesn't turn the ball over and they sustain drives. Unfortunately, he's stunting Tebow's growth having apparently decided he's only a running QB. Xanders is a "Yes Man", we all know that, so he's going to side with Elway, always. Elway wants a polished pocket passing QB with athleticism, and he does not want to bet his front office career on a project like Tebow. Tebow and the fans are going to have to force Elway to keep him through enough winning and popularity.

    I would like to see EFX come out and just throw public support behind Tebow and give him another year as the starter no matter what, and then evaluate after that. That gives him another offseason with some actual reps, we can accumulate some more talent, and maybe we can even hire a QBs coach that, you know, knows something about developing QBs.

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    • #32
      The way we're going, i'm hoping we can nab Kirkpatrick or Claiborne in the 1st since we'll be out of range for Luck, Jones, and Barkley.

      2nd round, depends what we do in free agency, wouldn't mind adding a young DT to develop.

      As for QB, i'd give TT another year, let him get a full offseason, develop chemistry with the WR's among other things. And then if he's still struggling after next year, get a top QB in the 2013 draft. And it wouldn't surprise me if Barkley went back to school.

      Wouldn't hate the idea of a QB in rd 2, but we have other needs that need to be filled.
      Last edited by ERoyal248; 11-16-2011, 10:40 AM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
        See, my problem is that I don't believe Tebow is just a certain "style" of QB. I think Fox is doing a really crappy job of conveying any confidence in him as a passer to the media. I've charted every throw, and I think Tebow is fine as a normal QB. We just don't have a pass blocking capable RT or LG, though we might if we swapped the two players, and our receiving corps can't catch the ball.

        If I'm Tebow, I tell Fox to shut the hell up about me not being able to play a conventional offense, and I put on the tape of the last 4 weeks to showcase what should have been 65% accurate passing.

        Fox wants to run and play defense. Foxball. He probably loves the fact he can turn his QB into another running threat. Carolina fans joked for years that if he could, Fox would either run or punt on every play and try to win 10-0. Well...they were right.

        I don't think any coach on this team knows how to develop a QB. Elway might, but he thinks Tebow can't hack it and doesn't waste his time. If EFX want to stay with the option based attack, they will need another gimicky QB, but that will be easy to find since nobody else is running this. I think we could run a normal attack this year with Tebow as a threat to scramble *if* the team had any sure-handed WRs or TEs, let alone 2 or 3, and if Orlando Franklin was not our RT.

        I choose to see this option usage with Tebow as more of a reflection on the team, specifically Franklin, Beadles, and our WRs/TEs, than just Tebow. I don't believe any QB could be successful as a pocket passer with our current offensive talent, and I think the Detroit game really drove that home.

        So, do I think EFX really want Tebow as their QB? No, I don't. Not at all. Do I think that's the correct evaluation? No, not at all.

        I still think we have a group of bumbling, stumbling doofuses leading this team. Fox is stubborn and wants to play Foxball. He honestly probably doesn't care who his QB is as long as he doesn't turn the ball over and they sustain drives. Unfortunately, he's stunting Tebow's growth having apparently decided he's only a running QB. Xanders is a "Yes Man", we all know that, so he's going to side with Elway, always. Elway wants a polished pocket passing QB with athleticism, and he does not want to bet his front office career on a project like Tebow. Tebow and the fans are going to have to force Elway to keep him through enough winning and popularity.

        I would like to see EFX come out and just throw public support behind Tebow and give him another year as the starter no matter what, and then evaluate after that. That gives him another offseason with some actual reps, we can accumulate some more talent, and maybe we can even hire a QBs coach that, you know, knows something about developing QBs.
        After Fox's comments about Tebow, I take it as no confidence in Tebow's ability as an NFL QB. They have no other choice but to ride with Tebow for rest of the season because the Broncos are winning games. But come offseason EFX will find their QB via FA or the draft. That is not to say that Tebow will be cut, just that he wont be the starter for Denver Broncos.

        Fox and co have scrapped the playbook and will ride this option out. If they win the Super Bowl GREAT! But don't expect Tebow to be under center next year.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by BroncosTX77 View Post
          After Fox's comments about Tebow, I take it as no confidence in Tebow's ability as an NFL QB. They have no other choice but to ride with Tebow for rest of the season because the Broncos are winning games. But come offseason EFX will find their QB via FA or the draft. That is not to say that Tebow will be cut, just that he wont be the starter for Denver Broncos.

          Fox and co have scrapped the playbook and will ride this option out. If they win the Super Bowl GREAT! But don't expect Tebow to be under center next year.
          We'll see what happens. I think the fans can hold EFX hostage in terms of what they do with Tebow. Tim's doing his part by winning. When the offseason comes, fans and media will have plenty of time to break down all the tape and barrage Elway and Fox with factual data about Tebow's accuracy if the receivers and TEs could catch, how horrific Franklin is as a pass blocking OT, the lack of training camp reps, etc... all on top of his character, potential, and hopefully an overall winning record.

          The compromise I see being made is taking a QB in Round 2 or 3. An early round QB, but not a 1st Round QB, still sends the message that Tebow is the starter, but that competition is just being brought in. Fans will buy that. And if Tebow struggles, and the new guy shows promise, fans will understand the switch if one is made down the road. Obviously, I really think Tannehill is the guy if he's still around in the 2nd, but Foles or another QB might make sense as well if he's not.

          If EFX makes the mistake of rail-roading Tebow, the fans will boo them non-stop until they are fired.

          Comment


          • #35
            I won't be surprised by anything our FO does regarding our QB situation. Watch us take a DT in the first, like we COULD have last year
            "Happiness is just an illusion, filled with sadness and confusion." Jimmy Ruffin

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            • #36
              Originally posted by HUMCALC View Post
              I won't be surprised by anything our FO does regarding our QB situation. Watch us take a DT in the first, like we COULD have last year
              If only we would have taken Dareus over Miller, our defense would have been AMAZING!

              Oh wait...
              2012 Mock- Stickin W/ Tebow
              1- Kawaan Short, DT, Purdue (trade to mid 20's)
              2- Chase Minnifield, CB, UVA
              2- Juron Criner, WR, Arizona(acquired in trade down)
              3- Isaiah Pead, RB, Cincinnati
              4- Julian Miller, DE, WVU
              5- Vick Ballard, RB, Miss. St.
              5-Chandler Harnish, QB, NIU

              Address OLine depth in FA.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by DWill27<3 View Post
                If only we would have taken Dareus over Miller, our defense would have been AMAZING!

                Oh wait...
                To be fair, I actually agree with him. There are no DTs the caliber of Dareus or Fairley in this draft, and might not be for quite awhile. There are some very good rush linebacker prospects though.

                Miller is an elite player, he's an elite rush linebacker. But, I think it's fair to say, an elite DT is harder to find, though certainly not as flashy.

                Miller was a good selection, but it's only half the debate. Now we have to find a dominating DT in the draft as well. That's going to be hard. It would be easier to have takent the dominating DT last draft, and then only have to fill in a rush LB this draft. Finding a dominating rush LB can still be hard as well however.

                On the debate of Dareus/Fairley v. Miller, I think it's a stalemate. I think both sides have strong arguments. The correct chioce will manifest itself over the next few drafts. If we don't have a chance at a dominating DT, but do pass up several elite rush LBs, the choice might have been wrong. If we find a dominating DT, the choice was right.

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                • #38
                  Fox could be just lulling the Jets DB's to sleep by saying Tebow can't pass. He is better at running but he can pass also, if need be!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
                    To be fair, I actually agree with him. There are no DTs the caliber of Dareus or Fairley in this draft, and might not be for quite awhile. There are some very good rush linebacker prospects though.

                    Miller is an elite player, he's an elite rush linebacker. But, I think it's fair to say, an elite DT is harder to find, though certainly not as flashy.

                    Miller was a good selection, but it's only half the debate. Now we have to find a dominating DT in the draft as well. That's going to be hard. It would be easier to have takent the dominating DT last draft, and then only have to fill in a rush LB this draft. Finding a dominating rush LB can still be hard as well however.

                    On the debate of Dareus/Fairley v. Miller, I think it's a stalemate. I think both sides have strong arguments. The correct chioce will manifest itself over the next few drafts. If we don't have a chance at a dominating DT, but do pass up several elite rush LBs, the choice might have been wrong. If we find a dominating DT, the choice was right.
                    Also consider that Miller, as a 4-3 linebacker, rushes the quarterback less than 70% of the time, at least. He's top 10 in the NFL in sacks, so I think it's fair to say we landed one of the best pass rushers in years.

                    What really sold me that Miller wasn't your average pass rusher was the Oakland game. We didn't use him as a speed rusher on the edge like we did the first game vs. Oakland, but we lined him up in the middle of the defense at linebacker and sent him on delayed blitzes and A-Gap blitzes, and he truly shined.
                    Fightin' Texas Aggie c/o '16

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by BroncoooJohnson View Post
                      Also consider that Miller, as a 4-3 linebacker, rushes the quarterback less than 70% of the time, at least. He's top 10 in the NFL in sacks, so I think it's fair to say we landed one of the best pass rushers in years.

                      What really sold me that Miller wasn't your average pass rusher was the Oakland game. We didn't use him as a speed rusher on the edge like we did the first game vs. Oakland, but we lined him up in the middle of the defense at linebacker and sent him on delayed blitzes and A-Gap blitzes, and he truly shined.
                      We use him like a 34 Rush LB. His rushing splits and other 34 OLBs like DeMarcus Ware are almost identical, and that's with us playing a ball control style, which means less defensive snaps. Infact, Miller has more pass rushes than any other player on our team (257). Other teams, especially Green Bay, like to bring their OLB up the inside gaps as well from time to time.

                      He's a good rush LB. The problem is that we already had one in Dumervil. And our scheme only uses one at a time, as opposed to a true 34, which would use both. So, in my mind, yeah, we took the safest player in the draft, but it was at a position that Dumervil would have been playing. Is Miller better than Dumervil in this particular scheme as our Joker? Yes, because of the speed. But we still have no answer at 3 tech, where Dareus or Fairley would have given us a legit starter for years. Meanwhile, it seems like Dumervil's time is going to be limited unless he ramps up some production. His pass rush has to offset his liability against the run, as well as be to an elite level to warrant his massive contract.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I don't think anyone could be unhappy about the Miller pick. He has been a beast at getting to the QB this season and we battered Palmer and Cassel, a major reason we won both games. Cassel was hit so much he couldn't finish the game and now might be out for the season.

                        Having people like Doom and Miller who can constantly get to the QB puts ALOT of pressure on the opposing offense. Miller is also getting good in coverage and is a very capable run defender and great leader. He could be a TOP LB very soon.

                        As for Tebow, I like him but he is very raw as a passer. Yes he is 3-1 but alot of that is down to the D and running game. Against DET he faced alot of 3rd and longs and we kept going 3 and out.

                        He is raw in decision making and raw as a passer, He will get to play out the season and MAYBE he will develop with a full offseason.

                        I think Fox has done a great job with this team, We are much improved from last year. He knows Tebow won't carry the O to wins himself so he helps him out by giving him a running game and an offense he can handle.

                        To become a consistent winner we will need a passing game, Can Tebow provide that ? We will see.

                        I think we have some nice weapons and I love what the OL has been doing.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
                          We use him like a 34 Rush LB. His rushing splits and other 34 OLBs like DeMarcus Ware are almost identical, and that's with us playing a ball control style, which means less defensive snaps. Infact, Miller has more pass rushes than any other player on our team (257). Other teams, especially Green Bay, like to bring their OLB up the inside gaps as well from time to time.

                          He's a good rush LB. The problem is that we already had one in Dumervil. And our scheme only uses one at a time, as opposed to a true 34, which would use both. So, in my mind, yeah, we took the safest player in the draft, but it was at a position that Dumervil would have been playing. Is Miller better than Dumervil in this particular scheme as our Joker? Yes, because of the speed. But we still have no answer at 3 tech, where Dareus or Fairley would have given us a legit starter for years. Meanwhile, it seems like Dumervil's time is going to be limited unless he ramps up some production. His pass rush has to offset his liability against the run, as well as be to an elite level to warrant his massive contract.
                          Doom has actually been solid against the run this year. And if he can stay healthy it looks like he can earn that comtract.
                          Denver Broncos GM
                          Originally posted by Mosk
                          Joey Bosa ~ Jason Spriggs ~ Darian Thompson ~ Nick Vannett ~ Paul Perkins ~ Dan Vitale

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                          • #43
                            Guys, is there any chance we go with a two QB system?

                            What if we did draft someone like Tannehill, a former wideout, not as a replacement or future starter, but as someone to compliment Tebow?

                            Is there a person available with skill sets even close? Would we continue to run the option all the time? Would Tim be ok with splitting reps in order to stay healthy for the entire season?

                            Can you imagine the mismatches created by having Tebow and Tannehill in the backfield...at the same time?

                            I have so many questions these days, to be honest...

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                            • #44
                              RG3 and Denver Broncos has a really nice ring to it.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                My thoughts on Tebow are still on hold until Tim gets a full off season to prepare. He didn't have that his rookie year and didn't last year due to lock out. Fans can say it does not matter how a player practices, but it does.

                                WRs are fine, but if we are only going to throw the ball once every 5 minutes, there are going to be drops. WRs like any player, needs to find rhythm.
                                Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

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