Tight Ends

[Mk2_Tebow]

martellus bennet

The guy is pure locker room lazy poison.

[kishzilla]

So you think Tim Tebow is better than Alex Smith and Jason Campbell. Okay

Putting words in my mouth. I said maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. I don't think either one of them would be guaranteed to start over Tebow going into the pre-season next year. If you do, you're either greatly overestimating Smith and Campbell's abilities, or grossly underestimating Tebow's.

Yes I would have and I bet you thought the same thing. Everyone should have and would have. He proved the world wrong this past season. And yes he does have tools Tebow doesn't have. I don't think Tebow could do half the things we seen him do this season throwing the ball.

Based on what? Remember Smith is in his 6th year, and he played decidedly worse in his first two years than Tebow ever did.

What are you talking about. I am not saying the front office should go and tell him what to do. I completly disagree with that. Fox I also trust and I am his biggest supporter. He has been great in his first year.

Then if McCoy sticks around, you need to realize it's because Fox has decided he wants him here, and see it through that lens. I trust Fox. He's been in the NFL for a very long time and I trust he knows what he's doing with his coaches.

blah blah blah

Look man, if someone says the receivers aren't catching enough of the catchable balls, that's a fair critique. If they say they aren't getting enough consistent separation, that's also a fair critique. If someone says that the Pass protection is not consistent enough, that's also a fair critique. All of those things are facts. That doesn't excuse Tebow from holding the ball too long and taking an unnecessary sack. That doesn't excuse him from not seeing a dump-off to Ball underneath for a conversion on 3rd and 5. Those things can actually be happening, and someone can bring them up as ways the team can help Tebow improve, but that doesn't make them excuses.

People saying the FO is trying to keep Tebow from succeeding, that's making excuses. If people say that McCoy doesn't like Tebow so that's why he's holding him back, that's making excuses.

You seem to have lumped any criticism of other facets of the team that correlate in part to Tebow's performance, as excuses for Tebow. That's how you perceive it, but that's not how it is.

The OP brings up the point that having a pass catching TE can be an important tool to help Tebow. That's where McCoy needs to improve. We have guys that we drafted to be just that, but they haven't been implemented enough. That's not an excuse. That's a fair critique. If I were to say the only reason Tebow isn't doing well is because the tight ends aren't good enough, that's an excuse.

Just seems like you've been arguing so long and hard against Tebow that your first instinct is to view any criticism of the team as an excuse by Tebowmaniacs. That's just goofy.

[Mk2_Tebow]

We have THE WORST QB in the league.

Why for all that is holy would we waste draft picks on TE's or WR's when Tebow can't hit them.

X

You posted not that long ago that you had rooted against the Broncos during the win streak because you wanted to see Tebow fail (that post you made still boggles my mind). So I understand how actual reality is clouded for you.

There are 6 other Qbs ranked lower than tebow in QB rating.

He was also second in rush yards and a leader in rushing Tds and per carry average.

He opened up lanes for runningbacks helping Denver LEAD the league in rushing yards and oh yeah, went 8-5 and helped win a playoff game (with a record setting PASSING performance!)after Denver was 7-24 in the previous 33 games before he started (a league worst during that span).

He is NOT the worst QB in the league, not even close .

[BroncoooJohnson]

The guy is pure locker room lazy poison.

That's definitely an exaggeration. Dallas would have cut him long ago if he was truly hurtful to the locker room, a la TO.

[Mk2_Tebow]

That's definitely an exaggeration. Dallas would have cut him long ago if he was truly hurtful to the locker room, a la TO.

I have been a cowboy fan since 1977 (Dolphins and Broncos fan also).

Jerry jones never admits a mistake. it is part of the reason the team has only won 1 playoff game in 15 years , 25 NFL teams have won more playoff games than the cowboys during that span.

Go to the Cowboy forums and research what Dallas fans think of Bennett.

I might be exagerrating but when he is not running bad routes he is dropping passes. he IS lazy and spends more time posting on youtube than he does getting better.

Now that being said, if he ever got his head out of his butt (and he might be able to ) he could be something special. He has all the tools to be another Vernon Davis but he just does not turn the corner.

[johnlimburg]

Putting words in my mouth. I said maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. I don't think either one of them would be guaranteed to start over Tebow going into the pre-season next year. If you do, you're either greatly overestimating Smith and Campbell's abilities, or grossly underestimating Tebow's.

Neither. I just think they are both better than Tebow. Especially after we seen Smith this season. Campbell is more of a toss up and don't get me wrong. I want neither of them on this team with Tebow. I don't want another average guy for more years. We need to find our future. I thought Tebow would make it clear one way or the other when we found he would start the last 11 but every question is still there regarding his skill set.

Based on what? Remember Smith is in his 6th year, and he played decidedly worse in his first two years than Tebow ever did.

Well I didn't look at Smith to the extent I have of Tebow. So I cannot say one way or the other. But based off of stats I would say Tebow had prettier production.

Then if McCoy sticks around, you need to realize it's because Fox has decided he wants him here, and see it through that lens. I trust Fox. He's been in the NFL for a very long time and I trust he knows what he's doing with his coaches.

Me too. I trust Fox and am more than happy to still have Mccoy. I would just prefer an upgrade. As I said I am not going to say like some every week fire him or cut him. Them end of the world fans are annoying as hell. I am not that. I defended his play calling at times but I just think his offense is bad. Sure he doesn't have the best guy at the helm but I think he could have helped Tebow a little more than he did. Saying that he tried the option experiement which I was right on pretty much when I said it would become un productive despite being called hater for that different point of view as usual.

Look man, if someone says the receivers aren't catching enough of the catchable balls, that's a fair critique. If they say they aren't getting enough consistent separation, that's also a fair critique.

Yes the catching one is. However the second one is in no way a fair critique. No one can see down the field on the plays. Only coaches tape as I said shows that. Every now and then during a game they will pull up a down the field shot and show that no one was open. However some around here would take that to the bank and say it is every play and the reason why Tebow holds it too long. However in these games they also show ones with guys wide open and he doesn't hit him. However some pick and choose what they want to see based on their agendas.

Our receiving core is lacking. I think we need a shufty speedster to help the offense. A guy you can get the ball too to make plays.

If someone says that the Pass protection is not consistent enough, that's also a fair critique.

Yes it is when true. Games like the first Oakland game. The Detroit game. The 2nd half of both New England games. However people say it when not even true. For example when Tebow took a bunch of sacks against Miami. The pass protection was fine. Tebow didn't want to throw it. It has happened many more times when the people who want to blame everything on everyone else and have no clue what they are looking at make things up again to fit their agendas.

All of those things are facts. That doesn't excuse Tebow from holding the ball too long and taking an unnecessary sack. That doesn't excuse him from not seeing a dump-off to Ball underneath for a conversion on 3rd and 5. Those things can actually be happening, and someone can bring them up as ways the team can help Tebow improve, but that doesn't make them excuses.

You don't get what I am saying. As I said when valid sure you can say it but it is when they are not true or things people make to defend him that are the excuses I am refering to.

People saying the FO is trying to keep Tebow from succeeding, that's making excuses. If people say that McCoy doesn't like Tebow so that's why he's holding him back, that's making excuses.

You seem to have lumped any criticism of other facets of the team that correlate in part to Tebow's performance, as excuses for Tebow. That's how you perceive it, but that's not how it is.

Read what I said above in this post. Even in my last I said valid excuses are there. No doubt. However ones made up. Ones which are not true. People blaming things on people when not true are excuses. I know what I am saying. I know what an excuse is when I see it. I have always been objective of Tebow. I have no Florida roots. I have no Tebow hater roots. I couldn't have given two craps about Tebow while he was at Florida. However when the draft came around like I always do I look at many many players. I like doing it. From what I seen fro Tebow I had come to what I thought of him. Like I had with many other players that year and after that year. I based it purely off what I seen. Then once he was here I wasn't sure. I had a bit of bias at first as I always do when they first come. I like them cause they are Broncos. Like with Rahim Moore. His football skills I doubted coming out. I didn't want him. But when he came and he started saying I want to be a Bronco for life I started to like him. Then what was put on the field for the reasons I didn't think much of him coming out were proven right. Same with Tebow. Then when he got here and was a great guy in interviews and what not I liked him a lot. Then the 3 games rolled around and I was on board. I was caught up in the craziness of Tebow. Then one day after I didn't even talk about him with everyone else on here for months and posted like 5000 times in Drafts and free Agency section I decided to go back and watch Tebow. All the games. Looking back I thought all the things of him coming out. Then this year rolled around and he started and I was completly let his play decide my opinion. I have supported him and defended him multiple times. For example:

* On the O'Reilly show when some women was bashing him for religion. I defended him.
* After a 3 game stretch where he started to improve I defended him by saying stop saying he is unconventional because he was playing better in a conventional way.
* I said after the Kansas City game in the first half you can't bash him for his throws in that game.
* I said that after the Raiders game when he missed a wide open Julius Thomas with an awfully throw ball that it wasn't his fault. There was no passing lane and he had to go over the top of a lineman with his hands up in the air.

I am not biased on the topic. Constantly because I have had a different POV then people and rightfully so I get cast off as a hater and a Tebow basher and all of this. Sure I critique him but never unfairly. When I ask people to show me where I have hated they just ignore me. People are quick to do those things but never back up what they say.

The OP brings up the point that having a pass catching TE can be an important tool to help Tebow. That's where McCoy needs to improve. We have guys that we drafted to be just that, but they haven't been implemented enough. That's not an excuse. That's a fair critique. If I were to say the only reason Tebow isn't doing well is because the tight ends aren't good enough, that's an excuse.

I know that is not an excuse. Of course he needs to implement them.

Just seems like you've been arguing so long and hard against Tebow that your first instinct is to view any criticism of the team as an excuse by Tebowmaniacs. That's just goofy.

As I said you took some words and ran with them. I originally said that people make excuses and blame other players for everything. I know what an excuse is and fair critism of the QB. Read my above post and try to read the actual words this time.

thanks bud, that's probably the best post you've contributed on this thread.

Fleenor/Allen 2012!

Oh thank you. I am suprised you didn't run away like the thread where you claimed I am a Tebow hater yet couldn't back it up. Good times

[kishzilla]

I am not biased on the topic. Constantly because I have had a different POV then people and rightfully so I get cast off as a hater and a Tebow basher and all of this.

It goes both ways man. I get lumped in with Tebowmaniacs and apologists etc. all the time. Not necessarily by you, but other supposed "fair critics".

Like I said. It would be a good idea for everyone to take a step back and unhitch themselves from whatever wagon they're attached to for a minute and realize that many are being too extreme.

[coloradomedic]

Shannon Sharpe's stats for his first 2 seasons combined:

29 rec
421 yards

I wonder if anyone wanted to draft a big time TE back then. Give the young kids some time to develop.

[BroncoooJohnson]

Oh thank you. I am suprised you didn't run away like the thread where you claimed I am a Tebow hater yet couldn't back it up. Good times

not good to know that you're butthurt over it. I apologize if you've been holding onto it all this time.

And I don't know if it will help or hurt your feelings even more, but..

Tebow is maybe the worst starting quarterback in the NFL.

Not a bad season for the worst starting quarterback in the NFL, eh?

Fleenor/Allen 2012!

[johnlimburg]

not good to know that you're butthurt over it. I apologize if you've been holding onto it all this time.

And I don't know if it will help or hurt your feelings even more, but..



Not a bad season for the worst starting quarterback in the NFL, eh?

Fleenor/Allen 2012!

I am not holding onto it. I just find it amusing people like you who call hater but can't back it up.

He is one of the worst starting quarterbacks in the NFL. How is that hating. Their is much much much reasoning for this.

Nice try though

It goes both ways man. I get lumped in with Tebowmaniacs and apologists etc. all the time. Not necessarily by you, but other supposed "fair critics".

Like I said. It would be a good idea for everyone to take a step back and unhitch themselves from whatever wagon they're attached to for a minute and realize that many are being too extreme.

Yes many are. Many are not.

[BroncoooJohnson]

I am not holding onto it.

Oh thank you. I am suprised you didn't run away like the thread where you claimed I am a Tebow hater yet couldn't back it up. Good times

are you sure you're not holding onto it? It's only been how long?

Fleenor/Allen 2012!

[johnlimburg]

are you sure you're not holding onto it? It's only been how long?

Fleenor/Allen 2012!

Like a couple weeks. I remember crap. I have a good memory.

[BroncoooJohnson]

Like a couple weeks. I remember crap. I have a good memory.

Sounds to me like you were holding onto it

[johnlimburg]

Sounds to me like you were holding onto it

Whatever you reckon. Either way. You still couldn't back up what you said. Congrats on not being able to backup your words. :clap: Well done