Trading up for Trent Richardson

[jaytea11]

let's preface this with the obvious. if you aren't sure, please take a moment to glance at my avatar, signature and location.

now, that being said: i would LOVE to have Richardson in a Bronco uniform.

i would just not love to trade up for him. especially since:



^^^this.



i would like to know how the #2 back in the draft is going to last until the tail end of the 2nd round?

let's not be so quick to predict what sort of career either player will have, as none of us know for sure.



almost every draft board I've seen lately. Mayock is a pretty good source. He has him at #2, moving him there after the Combine. Even if Trent had participated in the Combine and performed terribly, no one is passing him as the #1 back.



Alabama is a defensive team and its offense is more of a grind it out, pound it out type of offense, which accounts for more carries for their running backs.

Boise was a throwing team under Moore. Martin (who is actually a ground and pound style back) was not the only or one of few weapons, but one of a great many that Kellen had to choose from.

I'm not prone to bank anything on stats as they really don't mean much, but if we're going to talk about stats than here goes (oh and on a side note: since the Heisman is supposed to be based on a single season, stat-wise, Moore should have been sitting in Luck's seat in NY last year):

I'm not sure what your measuring criteria is for "sniffing" another's stats but if you just look at 2011 you'll find that Trent only had 380 more rushing yards than Martin (keep in mind Boise is a throwing team primarily and Martin missed the TCU game [Martin averaged about 108 yds/game last year so that difference would've been narrower had he not missed a game]), 20 more attempts, and 5 more TDs. The TDs is probably the most important but I'd say a difference of 5 is probably sniffing. Their receiving stats are a bit more close. Trent only had 83 more receiving yards and one more TD last year.

That is one of the great things about Doug however, he is versatile. He can catch out of the backfield, in the slot, etc... oh and he can play defense. In fact he was a defensive back before switching to offense.

As for each player's career:

ATT YDS AVG TD REC YDS AV TD TOT TDS

Doug 593 3324 5.7 43 64 661 9.9 4 47
Trent 540 3130 5.8 35 68 730 10.4 7 42

Now let me make it very clear: I am NOT saying Doug is better than Trent, but it's pretty obvious that Doug can probably be said to have "sniffed" Trent's stats, since he exceeds several of them. Oh I left off Doug's '08 year so that it would be more fair. There wasn't much on there anyway since he was sitting behind Johnson.




i don't think he said he was better. there's just no point in wasting money and draft picks when a perfectly good RB will be available at #25 (maybe).



This is why we really shouldn't be comparing the two. A team is going to be looking for one style or another. The team that wants speed and agility in their run game will look toward Trent. The team that wants 3rd down conversions, red zone conversions, clock control and a pounding running game will look at Doug. Both will be extremely useful in a system that tailors to their skill-sets and builds. One is the next Peterson and one is the next Rice/Ingram.

I would agree too, that he's a can't miss pick. If we were in that position I would be irate if Denver did not draft Trent. We're just not going to be able to do that and still fill our actual needs. I wouldn't even be comfortable with taking Doug at #25 knowing we have defensive needs to fill that are more important. I don't think I'd be upset... but rest assured, Doug will not be available by the time we pick again in the second round. However, I would not be devastated if he somehow fell to us for a second round pick either.

The main thing here that a lot of people seem to either be missing or unwilling to recognize is that Doug Martin is now the #2 best running back in the draft according to Mayock and several others I've seen around the Interwebz. Drafting Doug at #25 is more feasible and makes much more sense for Denver than trading up to get Trent. That's a big IF they even decide to address RB that early. I would hope they would look into DT first though.

Exactly what I wanted to say but didn't want to type..!

[DenverBlood]

its not even close, will Trent is playing top talent every week like LSU, FSU, auburn ect. Martin is playing teams like Wyoming and Hawaii so really not close at all

Thank you.

[DenverBlood]

that's all you've got?

It's a pretty legitimate argument. I have already stated on this thread that if you watch Doug Martin highlights he doesn't even do that much with contact. Boisie is so superior to a very weak conference that he is constantly running in lanes you could fit a bus through. That doesn't make him a great back. That just makes the team far superior to their opponents.

It leads to confusion like thinking that Doug Martin is anywhere near close to the back that Trent is because his slightly inferior stats are close in a far inferior conference.

And you want to talk about Doug Martin being a redzone, ball control, chain moving back? Seriously? And Richardson isn't? Have you ever actually watched Richardson play or just spewing jealous hate on the SEC?
(I realize this was the other guy that posted that not you. Just fitting it in here.)

[jaytea11]

It's a pretty legitimate argument. I have already stated on this thread that if you watch Doug Martin highlights he doesn't even do that much with contact. Boisie is so superior to a very weak conference that he is constantly running in lanes you could fit a bus through. That doesn't make him a great back. That just makes the team far superior to their opponents.

It leads to confusion like thinking that Doug Martin is anywhere near close to the back that Trent is because his slightly inferior stats are close in a far inferior conference.

And you want to talk about Doug Martin being a redzone, ball control, chain moving back? Seriously? And Richardson isn't? Have you ever actually watched Richardson play or just spewing jealous hate on the SEC?
(I realize this was the other guy that posted that not you. Just fitting it in here.)

I never doubted Richardson's skills or stated that Martin was better. I also acknowledge that SEC is far more difficult than the Mountain West. All I am getting at is that it's my personal belief that Doug Martin has the size/skills/abilities to be a great back in the NFL and that I don't think that Richardson had such a better outlook that it would warrant paying the insane price it would cost to trade up and get him when guys like Martin are going to be available at our pick. Martin is an extremely well rounded back. Many NFLN commentators continue to call him the most well rounded back coming into the draft... Again, I am not saying he is better than Richardson nor are they, but still a very interesting point.

Now if Richardson ends up being the next AP and Doug Martin ends up being the next Willis McGahee or Ronnie Brown, or Joseph Addai then I will totally eat my words, but if Richardson is the next AP and Martin is the next Ray Rice as many are saying or the next LeSean McCoy, or Frank Gore then I just can't be convinced that AP is so much better that he would have been worth trading up for.

I can't help but think of the 2009 draft when we took the highest rated RB prospect.. Knowshow and the Eagels just chilled out and grabbed LeSean, or even the jets grabbing the Shonne Greene in the 3rd.. Our 1st rounder was no better than their 3rd.

[DenverBlood]

I never doubted Richardson's skills or stated that Martin was better. I also acknowledge that SEC is far more difficult than the Mountain West. All I am getting at is that it's my personal belief that Doug Martin has the size/skills/abilities to be a great back in the NFL and that I don't think that Richardson had such a better outlook that it would warrant paying the insane price it would cost to trade up and get him when guys like Martin are going to be available at our pick. Martin is an extremely well rounded back. Many NFLN commentators continue to call him the most well rounded back coming into the draft... Again, I am not saying he is better than Richardson nor are they, but still a very interesting point.

Now if Richardson ends up being the next AP and Doug Martin ends up being the next Willis McGahee or Ronnie Brown, or Joseph Addai then I will totally eat my words, but if Richardson is the next AP and Martin is the next Ray Rice as many are saying or the next LeSean McCoy, or Frank Gore then I just can't be convinced that AP is so much better that he would have been worth trading up for.

I can't help but think of the 2009 draft when we took the highest rated RB prospect.. Knowshow and the Eagels just chilled out and grabbed LeSean, or even the jets grabbing the Shonne Greene in the 3rd.. Our 1st rounder was no better than their 3rd.

I feel like we sort of agree overall and our overall defense of the guy we ( I don't want to say like more because I hate Trent) but believe in more got this thread out of hand. I don't know enough about Doug Martin to judge that he can't be a good or great NFL back. I just don't think he will be as good as Trent.

That being said if he is as good as Ray Rice or even Mcgahee then yes he is worth sitting tight and getting at 25. And I'm already on record several times in this thread saying don't trade away a draft to get Trent at 5-6. Even if he was the next AP. However if he is available around 20 and trade cost isn't much or they are both even somehow available at 25 I would be just as pissed if we took Martin over Trent as you would be if we traded a draft for Trent at 5.

[LarryDean]

Depending how the draft plays out and if he would somehow happen to slip to a reachable level then I could see it ..

Although I would rather the Broncos trade up and draft best avaible defense ... I think Richardson is a great looking prospect and a player I would love to have on the Broncos but the level of probability seems almost nil ..

I also think the Broncos have a good chance at a number of good looking RB prospects wo having to trade up

[#24 Next Champ]

I would trade up for Richardson.Then i would double dip and go after LeMichael James.

Uhh and who plays DT?

[jaytea11]

I feel like we sort of agree overall and our overall defense of the guy we ( I don't want to say like more because I hate Trent) but believe in more got this thread out of hand. I don't know enough about Doug Martin to judge that he can't be a good or great NFL back. I just don't think he will be as good as Trent.

That being said if he is as good as Ray Rice or even Mcgahee then yes he is worth sitting tight and getting at 25. And I'm already on record several times in this thread saying don't trade away a draft to get Trent at 5-6. Even if he was the next AP. However if he is available around 20 and trade cost isn't much or they are both even somehow available at 25 I would be just as pissed if we took Martin over Trent as you would be if we traded a draft for Trent at 5.

Agreed. If he fell to the mid to late teens then i'd say go for it, but no RG3 type trades..

[DenverBlood]

Agreed. If he fell to the mid to late teens then i'd say go for it, but no RG3 type trades..

Yep. That's basically saying this is the 1 missing piece of a Super Bowl puzzle. Which clearly isn't true and wasn't for Atlanta either. And isn't for Shanny which is why I ultimately think he fails again even though I wish him the best.

[RealBronco]

its not even close, will Trent is playing top talent every week like LSU, FSU, auburn ect. Martin is playing teams like Wyoming and Hawaii so really not close at all

oh, i don't think i've even heard that before. now that you mention it, that makes sense..... /sarcasm

seriously though, there are better ways to argue or discuss the differences between two players. when it comes to going into the NFL, it matters zero who they played in college or how they performed.

It's a pretty legitimate argument. I have already stated on this thread that if you watch Doug Martin highlights he doesn't even do that much with contact. Boisie is so superior to a very weak conference that he is constantly running in lanes you could fit a bus through. That doesn't make him a great back. That just makes the team far superior to their opponents.

This is definitely nothing new that we as Boise fans don't know. We will readily admit our competition sucks. It will continue to suck even when we move to the Big East. This is just not a good argument to make however. There are tons of examples of guys that played in mediocre conferences and succeed big time in the NFL. That's really what bothers me about that type of argument. I guess some people like to let their loyalty pride get in the way, where they have to defend the conference their team plays in for some reason. I do not tend to do that, but moving on.

The problem with watching highlights is that they're on there for a reason. So you wouldn't see how often Martin had to bowl people over and fight for yardage. There's a reason he's called the Muscle Hamster in Boise.

And you want to talk about Doug Martin being a redzone, ball control, chain moving back? Seriously? And Richardson isn't? Have you ever actually watched Richardson play or just spewing jealous hate on the SEC?
(I realize this was the other guy that posted that not you. Just fitting it in here.)

i didn't say Trent couldn't do those things. But he is clearly a more speed/agility back. the whole point of a run game to begin with is to manage the clock and then possibly open up passing lanes. both of these guys do that well.

For the record: 1. Yes, I watched several Alabama games in which Richardson was blowing people up. I pay attention. This is why I want him in a Bronco uniform. 2. Yes, I do hate the SEC.

I feel like we sort of agree overall and our overall defense of the guy we ( I don't want to say like more because I hate Trent) but believe in more got this thread out of hand. I don't know enough about Doug Martin to judge that he can't be a good or great NFL back. I just don't think he will be as good as Trent.

I'm glad you cleared that up. We also agree that he probably won't be as good as Trent.

That being said if he is as good as Ray Rice or even Mcgahee then yes he is worth sitting tight and getting at 25. And I'm already on record several times in this thread saying don't trade away a draft to get Trent at 5-6. Even if he was the next AP. However if he is available around 20 and trade cost isn't much or they are both even somehow available at 25 I would be just as pissed if we took Martin over Trent as you would be if we traded a draft for Trent at 5.

This is exactly what the other two fellas and myself were attempting to say as well. Somehow that got lost someplace. We don't think Denver needs to waste picks and money and "bet the farm" by moving up that far to nab Trent because Martin will be a great option that will likely be available at our current destination and we wouldn't have to move. If Martin comes off the board for some reason, then there's two other guys there that would also be fine. It's just not worth trading that far because of how many good backs there are in this draft.

I completely agree with you that if he somehow falls to 20 (which he likely won't) that we could definitely consider trading up 5 spots. That wouldn't cost much at all I wouldn't think. And 100% agree that we take Trent over Doug if he somehow falls to us at #25.

BUT: We need to address DT FIRST and foremost before even thinking about running backs.

Yep. That's basically saying this is the 1 missing piece of a Super Bowl puzzle. Which clearly isn't true and wasn't for Atlanta either. And isn't for Shanny which is why I ultimately think he fails again even though I wish him the best.

Sometimes they work out, most of the time it doesn't. I think Julio Jones is going to turn into a great receiver but I wouldn't have moved that far up like Atlanta did. He won't be the sole reason they make it to the SB. The Redskins are just way too... well not ready in other areas to have one guy make the difference.

Fortunately for Denver we have a good defense in place that needs some recent vacancies filled, two stellar kicking specialists and a great running game. Plus we already got our "one guy that will make the difference" in Manning. Everyone else at this point is a bonus.

Anyway, to re-iterate: most definitely, Trent>>>Doug. But not enough to move that far up to nab.

[NorthEastCorner]

Those of you who think that DM doesn't take big hits and deliver them right back haven't watched him all that much (and I suspect I know what highlight video you did watch). Those people who say he's a he's a tough inside runner have it right. He puts his head down and explodes into tacklers practically every chance he gets.

I also disagree with those of you who say that the NFL is moving away from RB-centric offenses, or at least those of you who actually think it will be permanent. (Where are the stats on that, anyway? I'd like to see em) Because the defensive adjustments to that shift to passing offenses will in turn open up the running game for a walter payton-type player to exploit.

I think TM and DM will both be excellent NFL RBs. Who will be better, and just how good will they be? We'll just have to wait and see. But do you suppose that ladanian tomlinson and marshall fauik and ray rice and brandon jacobs and ahmad bradshaw might give DM a little better chance than some of you are?