Amobi Okoye?

[Cugel]

But it is not always shifted, and both DEs rarely play in the B gap at the same time.

Well if we draft a LB or S then we will be cutting 1st or 2nd year players who have considerable developmental talent. We have our starters and depth filled in both positions, except for Sam backer, and neither of the guys you like would play that position.

There is not an elite DE available IMO. I would take Kendall Reyes and Jerel Worthy over Nick Perry every time. If we draft a LB, then we are cutting Wesley Woodyard or Joe Mays. That isn't happening. There are no elite safeties in this draft, not just none available. This safety draft sucks and it would cost us guys like David Bruton and Rafael Bush. Good special teamers with decent upside left, especially Bush.

So draft a DT who can stuff the run and push the pocket. Don't draft him to draft him, but if it is Worthy or Reyes... pull the trigger. Fox and JDR are great DT coaches, give them a guy like Worthy or Reyes and you could have an elite dominant force inside with guys like Von Doom on the out side.

This is a well-reasoned argument.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing Woodyard go, but the Broncos probably like his potential and hope to develop him further and they just gave Mays $4 million for some reason.

As for a S, getting him would mean giving up on Rahim Moore their 2nd round pick of a year ago after only 1 season.

That could happen of course. The Broncos already pushed Moore down the depth chart by signing Mike Adams ahead of him as a FA.

But, to bring in another S with your 1st or 2nd round pick?

I don't see it unless they really think "Moore is just a busted pick."

[THEdraftnik]

And the formation is commonly shifted, which is where the rush end comes more into play.

So based on the Giants and Bears success versus the Jags, Raiders, and Vikings, do you think its more important the Broncos use a high pick on a run stuffer that can move an offensive lineman and a low pick on a linebacker or end or safety that makes the tackle, or should the Broncos spend a high pick to get an elite backer, end, or safety and get their run stuffer than can move a lineman in the mid to late rounds?

But it is not always shifted, and both DEs rarely play in the B gap at the same time.

Well if we draft a LB or S then we will be cutting 1st or 2nd year players who have considerable developmental talent. We have our starters and depth filled in both positions, except for Sam backer, and neither of the guys you like would play that position.

There is not an elite DE available IMO. I would take Kendall Reyes and Jerel Worthy over Nick Perry every time. If we draft a LB, then we are cutting Wesley Woodyard or Joe Mays. That isn't happening. There are no elite safeties in this draft, not just none available. This safety draft sucks and it would cost us guys like David Bruton and Rafael Bush. Good special teamers with decent upside left, especially Bush.

So draft a DT who can stuff the run and push the pocket. Don't draft him to draft him, but if it is Worthy or Reyes... pull the trigger. Fox and JDR are great DT coaches, give them a guy like Worthy or Reyes and you could have an elite dominant force inside with guys like Von Doom on the out side.

[AdamSchefter]

hes a buc now

[broncos SB2010]

Just so you guys can get a feeling of what I would like to do, my ideal mock is..

Kendricks/Brown
Sanu
Ta'Amu

My ideal mock would be:

Worthy/Thompson/Martin/Reyes
Worthy/Thompson/Martin/Reyes (whoever is left)
OLB Nigel Bradham

see, I want a LB too, just not one in the 1st or 2nd and I think Bradham is better than Brown and Kendricks both

[broncos SB2010]

Just so you guys can get a feeling of what I would like to do, my ideal mock is..

Kendricks/Brown
Sanu
Ta'Amu

Either one of those LB in the first would be an absolute waste, imo. Kuechly... I would be all over him, not those 2 guys. Especially Brown, just say no, especially first round.

Taking a WR 2nd round when he may not even make the top 3 on the roster is also a waste, imo.

Ta'amu is a very likely target for EFX

[broncos SB2010]

I like Perry a lot, as well as Vinny Curry, who won't be there at the Broncos second rounder. Zach Brown and Mychael Kendricks won't be available at the Broncos second and are both what Fox likes in backers, incredibly fast. This safety class is disapointing though, you're right.

Doug Martin and Stephen Hill would also give the Broncos a lot of options on offense.

Zach Brown is not a good prospect, late second round is all I would give for him, and maybe not even that. As I have posted many times before, I would be happy with taking Doug Martin at #25 as well. Kendricks is ok but not even close to a first round prospect, same with vinny Curry. Hill might be good but is he any better than DT, Decker, or Caldwell? Maybe one day, but right now he is getting drafted on athletic agility and speed, not any kind of known production or skill.


You see, that is exactly my point. None of those guys are any better prospects than the top DT on the boards at that time. Brockers, Worthy, reyes, and Thompson are all about equal level with them sop why not take a position of need all things being equal. It's not like we are picking between Coples, Kuechly, Claiborne, and Thompson.

[SoundsOfSuccess]

Just so you guys can get a feeling of what I would like to do, my ideal mock is..

Kendricks/Brown
Sanu
Ta'Amu

[SoundsOfSuccess]

The problem with that theory is there isn't an elite DE, Safety, or LB to be had at pick #25 most likely. Perry might be there and he would be worth considering. Barron is not an elite talent and may not be any better than what we have now. I have no idea who you are thinking is an elite LB prospect that may be available at #25. Otherwise, I might tend to agree with you.

I like Perry a lot, as well as Vinny Curry, who won't be there at the Broncos second rounder. Zach Brown and Mychael Kendricks won't be available at the Broncos second and are both what Fox likes in backers, incredibly fast. This safety class is disapointing though, you're right.

Doug Martin and Stephen Hill would also give the Broncos a lot of options on offense.

[Iron Clady]

The problem with that theory is there isn't an elite DE, Safety, or LB to be had at pick #25 most likely. Perry might be there and he would be worth considering. Barron is not an elite talent and may not be any better than what we have now. I have no idea who you are thinking is an elite LB prospect that may be available at #25. Otherwise, I might tend to agree with you.

Exactly. If you can get an elite player at another important position over a good DT then do that. But there most likely won't be a player at 25 who is significantly better than the best DT. If there is a big gap in talent then take the best player. But if the gap is small then take the DT because that is by far our biggest needed.

[broncos SB2010]

And the formation is commonly shifted, which is where the rush end comes more into play.

So based on the Giants and Bears success versus the Jags, Raiders, and Vikings, do you think its more important the Broncos use a high pick on a run stuffer that can move an offensive lineman and a low pick on a linebacker or end or safety that makes the tackle, or should the Broncos spend a high pick to get an elite backer, end, or safety and get their run stuffer than can move a lineman in the mid to late rounds?

The problem with that theory is there isn't an elite DE, Safety, or LB to be had at pick #25 most likely. Perry might be there and he would be worth considering. Barron is not an elite talent and may not be any better than what we have now. I have no idea who you are thinking is an elite LB prospect that may be available at #25. Otherwise, I might tend to agree with you.

[SoundsOfSuccess]

That doesn't really answer the question.

In my mind this how I see both 3-4 DE and 4-3 DT:

ability to hold their ground against double teams
ability to get off blocks
around 6-4, 300
ability to push the pocket
ability to penetrate into the backfield on occassion
strong at the POA

are you saying Ngata would be a bad NT and Wilfork couldn't play DE or DT in a 4-3?

Ngata would probably be a hell of a NT, as well. He's just that good. For some guys, it translates, for some, it doesn't. As we know, all players have different strengths and weaknesses. A guy like Justin Smith probably wouldn't be a top tier NT.

Wilfork could play anywhere as well. Wilfork and Ngata are pretty much the exception to any defensive line rule. A guy like Paul Soliai would not be as good in a 34 end role and especially a 43 end role.

[SoundsOfSuccess]

Actually, 3-4 DEs are called 5techs. They get this "nickname" for playing a 5 technique which is outside the the OT, or in the C gap. The only time they play in the B gaps is if they are playing a strong or weak defense and shift the formation over.

And you're ignoring the most important part of winning, and it's called keeping and gaining the lead. If Tom Brady can step up into the pocket, he is good enough to beat us. If Maurice Jones Drew gets enough carries, he can beat us and keep Peyton on the bench.

We already got Manning, just for kicks and giggles... lets go get some run stoppers. That way... teams just won't have a chance.

And the formation is commonly shifted, which is where the rush end comes more into play.

So based on the Giants and Bears success versus the Jags, Raiders, and Vikings, do you think its more important the Broncos use a high pick on a run stuffer that can move an offensive lineman and a low pick on a linebacker or end or safety that makes the tackle, or should the Broncos spend a high pick to get an elite backer, end, or safety and get their run stuffer than can move a lineman in the mid to late rounds?

[broncos SB2010]

Nose tackles are typically larger.

Nose tackles don't have as much responsibility in rushing the passer.

Nose tackles typically get more double teams.

A defensive end can disrupt a play by simply containing.

A nose tackle that is large can get by without the neccesarily as much skill.

Example of a nose tackle- Vince Wilfork

Example of an end- Haloti Ngata

That doesn't really answer the question.

In my mind this how I see both 3-4 DE and 4-3 DT:

ability to hold their ground against double teams
ability to get off blocks
around 6-4, 300
ability to push the pocket
ability to penetrate into the backfield on occassion
strong at the POA

are you saying Ngata would be a bad NT and Wilfork couldn't play DE or DT in a 4-3?

[SoundsOfSuccess]

What is the difference between a 3-4 DE and a 4-3 DT? besides alignment and gap responsibility?

Nose tackles are typically larger.

Nose tackles don't have as much responsibility in rushing the passer.

Nose tackles typically get more double teams.

A defensive end can disrupt a play by simply containing.

A nose tackle that is large can get by without the neccesarily as much skill.

Example of a nose tackle- Vince Wilfork

Example of an end- Haloti Ngata

[THEdraftnik]

There is one DT in a 34. The nose tackle. Not 3, not 7, not 8,000. One. 1. Hell, you can even spell it won, it sounds the same.

There are two DEs. Lined up in the B gaps in a base formation. (B gap is the gap between guard and tackle)

You're still ignoring the most important part of football-- winning. When 43 teams invest into defense tackles and have the best, they don't win. Teams with below average defensive tackles win. Teams with great defensive tackles don't. What's so hard to comprehend about that? Investing in other positions has gotten teams much, much more success in the past.

Actually, 3-4 DEs are called 5techs. They get this "nickname" for playing a 5 technique which is outside the the OT, or in the C gap. The only time they play in the B gaps is if they are playing a strong or weak defense and shift the formation over.

And you're ignoring the most important part of winning, and it's called keeping and gaining the lead. If Tom Brady can step up into the pocket, he is good enough to beat us. If Maurice Jones Drew gets enough carries, he can beat us and keep Peyton on the bench.

We already got Manning, just for kicks and giggles... lets go get some run stoppers. That way... teams just won't have a chance.