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Denver Post: Broncos Have More Misses Than Hits When Drafting D-Linemen

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  • #16
    And exactly why we need to spend an early pick on a DL.

    Most of the top DL were 1st-3rd round picks, it's rare to get a stud DL late in the rounds. Hopefully that changes this year.

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    • #17
      They can still find quality DT's in the draft. They just need to scout better. For example, they could've had Marvin Austin instead of Rahim Moore last year. I kmow Austin hasn't proved himself since he got hurt, but I like his potential. We could've also had Linval Joesph insteas of Zane Beadles.

      We need to take them HIGH in the draft. There won't be many good players in the 5th round.
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      • #18
        A bust falls more on the coaching staff for poor development than the front office..

        It's not like players were predetermined busts before the draft.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by SoundsOfSuccess View Post
          A bust falls more on the coaching staff for poor development than the front office..

          It's not like players were predetermined busts before the draft.
          Yes, but as been said, most of the top DT's always come through the first 3 rounds, that's why i hope we take one in the top 3 rounds.

          It's hard to find late-round DT's or many.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by BroncoFanBoy View Post
            They can still find quality DT's in the draft. They just need to scout better. For example, they could've had Marvin Austin instead of Rahim Moore last year. I kmow Austin hasn't proved himself since he got hurt, but I like his potential. We could've also had Linval Joesph insteas of Zane Beadles.

            We need to take them HIGH in the draft. There won't be many good players in the 5th round.
            That's really EFX's worst drafting failure so far. They just declared to the world that Moore is a bust by signing Mike Adams to start at FS for $4 million!

            They started Moore last year and now are benching him at FS and bringing in a high-priced FA.

            Obviously they should have drafted someone else in the second round.

            I know they considered moving up to draft Fairley if he fell in the first (instead he was taken by Detroit in the top 15). But that was never realistic.

            So, they had no realistic plan to grab a DT in last year's draft. Let's hope they manage better this year.
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            • #21
              Rahim Moore was the Broncos' #1 S. Marvin Austin probably was not among the top 5 DTs and he had severe character concerns (maybe the Broncos removed him from the board). I'd rather have the top FS. If the Broncos already gave up on Moore, then the organization will be responsible for his "bust" label. Moore is 22 years old and he needs more experience on the field. Mike Adams is 31 years old and he essentially signed a 1-year deal with $2 million guaranteed.
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              • #22
                Another thing that keeps screwing us up is they keep switching between 3-4 and 4-3 which require different players.

                However this is all on the Broncos. They do not draft linemen before the 3rd round and they expect miracles. Heck you could probably count on two hands the number of D-linemen they have taken in the first 3 rounds of the draft.

                They have no one to blame but themselves that they have no decent players.
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by ERoyal248 View Post
                  Yes, but as been said, most of the top DT's always come through the first 3 rounds, that's why i hope we take one in the top 3 rounds.

                  It's hard to find late-round DT's or many.
                  The talent level obviously is not as good, that's the point of the draft.

                  But no player comes into camp and is a bust in his first fifteen minutes unless you scouted a horrible attitude or something mental like that is going to hold him back.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cugel View Post
                    That's really EFX's worst drafting failure so far. They just declared to the world that Moore is a bust by signing Mike Adams to start at FS for $4 million!

                    They started Moore last year and now are benching him at FS and bringing in a high-priced FA.

                    Obviously they should have drafted someone else in the second round.

                    I know they considered moving up to draft Fairley if he fell in the first (instead he was taken by Detroit in the top 15). But that was never realistic.

                    So, they had no realistic plan to grab a DT in last year's draft. Let's hope they manage better this year.
                    What we've been doing is sign an old DT, and hope he still has some left in the tank. Jamal Williams is a good example. Ty Warren is an arguable example, and to be honest with you, I don't see him doing much, even if he does finally come back from his injuries. Dwayne Robertson was another failed DT.

                    It's not very often where you can just go out and acquire a great DT whose proven himself in the NFL. Bunkley was the only exception, but since he left, WE HAVE TO DRAFT ONE. Signing old guys won't work. Elite DT's don't just grow on trees.

                    I know Austin had character concerns, but if the FO was interested in moving up for Fairley, then I don't know why they would say no to Austin. We could've also had Stephen Paea, but that's another story.
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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Roddoliver View Post
                      Rahim Moore was the Broncos' #1 S. Marvin Austin probably was not among the top 5 DTs and he had severe character concerns (maybe the Broncos removed him from the board). I'd rather have the top FS. If the Broncos already gave up on Moore, then the organization will be responsible for his "bust" label. Moore is 22 years old and he needs more experience on the field. Mike Adams is 31 years old and he essentially signed a 1-year deal with $2 million guaranteed.
                      If the Broncos were willing to trade up for Nick Fairley, they shouldn't have had much problems with Austin. If Moore was taken by the 45th overall pick, we could've easily drafted Austin.

                      As for Moore, he needs to bulk up this offseason.
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by BroncoFanBoy View Post
                        If the Broncos were willing to trade up for Nick Fairley, they shouldn't have had much problems with Austin. If Moore was taken by the 45th overall pick, we could've easily drafted Austin.

                        As for Moore, he needs to bulk up this offseason.
                        I still hold out hope for Rahim Moore.

                        It's unfair to compare another player's learning curve to another (too many things at play that can't be attributed from one guy to the next) but Quinton Carter made huge progress as the season went on. He was just lucky enough to get the time despite having a tough go of it to begin with. By the end of the season, he was a pretty consistent player for the Broncos. I think in the end, the "trial by fire" helped Carter grow quickly, and I expect Moore to make strides as well as a result of having a full offseason.

                        A guy like Moore will really benefit from having a full offseason to really learn the defense in a way that won't be diluted so that he can get on the field quickly. Playing across from Manning in practice should help as well because he will be able to later go to Manning and figure out what he has seen and how he exploited his play in the secondary. I really think if anyone can make a 180 it's a guy like Rahim Moore. He needs to build strength and work on tackling, but I felt as though a lot of the time he was where he needed to be but just could not finish. Once the game slows down for him a bit, I think he will come along. Now, if he will be a starting caliber safety for us that can play at a high level will be very questionable, but at the very least I think he can provide some quality depth and not be the 4th/5th option like he was last year.
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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Snarfalicious View Post
                          I still hold out hope for Rahim Moore.

                          It's unfair to compare another player's learning curve to another (too many things at play that can't be attributed from one guy to the next) but Quinton Carter made huge progress as the season went on. He was just lucky enough to get the time despite having a tough go of it to begin with. By the end of the season, he was a pretty consistent player for the Broncos. I think in the end, the "trial by fire" helped Carter grow quickly, and I expect Moore to make strides as well as a result of having a full offseason.

                          A guy like Moore will really benefit from having a full offseason to really learn the defense in a way that won't be diluted so that he can get on the field quickly. Playing across from Manning in practice should help as well because he will be able to later go to Manning and figure out what he has seen and how he exploited his play in the secondary. I really think if anyone can make a 180 it's a guy like Rahim Moore. He needs to build strength and work on tackling, but I felt as though a lot of the time he was where he needed to be but just could not finish. Once the game slows down for him a bit, I think he will come along. Now, if he will be a starting caliber safety for us that can play at a high level will be very questionable, but at the very least I think he can provide some quality depth and not be the 4th/5th option like he was last year.
                          Not saying he's a current bust, but he really needs to bulk up this offseason. I'm just saying we need to start taking defensive takles in the early rounds and not other types.

                          Also, I do agree about Carter. He has improved as the season went on. I like his potential. I just don't see it with Moore just yet.
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                          • #28
                            Fortunately NEIL SMITH worked out for us in 1997! Alfred Williams, Michael Dean Perry, Keith Traylor were all free agents along w/ draft picks: Maa Tanuvasa & Trevor Pryce.

                            We won back-2-back SB titles with that group.

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                            • #29
                              Funny how everyone interprets stats, especially without comparsions.

                              The Giants and Steelers have only drafted 7 probowl lineman in the last 30 years. The draft is a crapshoot for the most part.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Roddoliver View Post
                                Rahim Moore was the Broncos' #1 S. Marvin Austin probably was not among the top 5 DTs and he had severe character concerns (maybe the Broncos removed him from the board). I'd rather have the top FS. If the Broncos already gave up on Moore, then the organization will be responsible for his "bust" label. Moore is 22 years old and he needs more experience on the field. Mike Adams is 31 years old and he essentially signed a 1-year deal with $2 million guaranteed.
                                Moore was not the top FS - he was just the Broncos top FS last season, and as for Austin if they had "character concerns" then why were they interested in Fairley?

                                Fairley was perfectly accurately summed up by one NFL personnel guy shortly before the draft as: "a top-ten talent and a top-10 bonehead."

                                As for Moore, EFX's verdict after watching him for a year is that they made a mistake.

                                They are demoting him from starter to backup and gave Mike Adams a 2 year $4 million contract. Only the first year is guaranteed, but if he does well they'll re-sign him to a longer contract.

                                And that will be the end of Rahim Moore. He will backup unless he wins back his starting job.

                                You just don't demote a 2nd round pick after he started for a season, and bring in a FA to replace him and pay that FA $4 million if you think that rookie is going to develop into a good starter for your team. The ONLY reason to pay that kind of money to a FA is to "upgrade" the talent level on your team, which means you need an upgrade from Moore.

                                Which means they made a mistake in drafting him.

                                And as Shanahan told Foxworth (in an exactly similar situation) when the Broncos brought in Dre Bly to replace him "we're paying him starter money, you can't expect him not to start." And then they traded Foxworth.
                                Last edited by Cugel; 04-14-2012, 05:42 PM.
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