Johnny Football

[Matymaddog]

Te'o had 2 missed tackles all year, and 3 INTs cost his team 3 chances to score, and not scoring causes your team to lose it's as simple as that.

Prove it. I'd like a link.

Johnny Football won the heisman. Now you should probably go petition to be included as a voter since you clearly know what you are talking about above anyone else

[Matymaddog]

Ahh I forgot about the freshman multiplier where whatever you do is that much better...oh wait... the Heisman is to the best player regardless of year, so this notion we should give him plus points for being a Freshman is laughable. Separating Manziel from Tebow and Newton is Tebow had 12 more TDs and Newton had 8 more. Yards mean nothing points does, ask carson palmer. The fact is Te'o never faltered, and Manziel faltered twice. Te'O got his team to the NC game, and Manziel cost his team the chance. Te'O never had a bad game.

Yea and Manti Te'O wasn't considered by the powers that be to have been the best college player this year, obviously. He lost the heisman race lol

Te'O has definitely faltered. And on a pure stats point of view, outside of his interceptions he was destroyed statistically by several linebackers.

So other than him "Being undefeated" which won't be the case come the BCS game...what legs does your argument stand on?

He lost. Plain and simple. Convincingly nonetheless. He had 12 more 1st place votes than Tebow had when he won the heisman

[the0rangecrush]

Prove it. I'd like a link.

Johnny Football won the heisman. Now you should probably go petition to be included as a voter since you clearly know what you are talking about above anyone else

Te’o has 103 tackles this season, 42 more than any other player on Notre Dame. He has just two missed tackles all season. As a team, the Irish have missed 61 tackles this season, the third-fewest among AQ schools

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/tag/_/name/manti-teo

[Matymaddog]

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/tag/_/name/manti-teo

The author of the article failed to link the stats page to this article including all other players missed tackle stats. So I'm not buying it until I see that page. Until then, it's just someone throwing numbers at the wall. That still doesn't account for blown coverages, missed assignments, number of times he was completely washed out of a play, etc.

Again, a fumble recovery is not more important than a forced fumble unless you also force the fumble. Not to mention he has a severe lack of sacks and tackles for a loss in general. His pass break ups are low as well. All things left out with clear bias. 2 fumble recoveries will never be better than 4 forced fumbles to me. One guy is just picking up a lose ball, another guy is making sure the opportunity to pick up a lose ball is there

[the0rangecrush]

Yea and Manti Te'O wasn't considered by the powers that be to have been the best college player this year, obviously. He lost the heisman race lol

Te'O has definitely faltered. And on a pure stats point of view, outside of his interceptions he was destroyed statistically by several linebackers.

So other than him "Being undefeated" which won't be the case come the BCS game...what legs does your argument stand on?

He lost. Plain and simple.

Yes let's look at stats in a vacuum, the fact he lost further proves the point that the Heisman is a joke.

How did Te'o falter? Which bad game did he have that lost his team the game?

The fact he leads the nation in TO's, is second in INTs, has great character, and is the main reason his team is undefeated. Also whether he looses to Alabama has no bearing on my argument. The Heisman is a regular season award, and is not based on bowl games.

[the0rangecrush]

The author of the article failed to link the stats page to this article including all other players missed tackle stats. So I'm not buying it until I see that page. Until then, it's just someone throwing numbers at the wall.

hahaha that's hilarious, so ESPN has some secret bias for voting Te'O for Heisman. Any credibility you had, you just lost.

[Matymaddog]

hahaha that's hilarious, so ESPN has some secret bias for voting Te'O for Heisman. Any credibility you had, you just lost.

No, I'm clearly asking for a link to a page with these stats. I don't see the page anywhere for comparison...do you? So where is he getting his stats from? Try a little harder because until I see an official layout of stats I'm not just gonna be like "Oh this random dude on espn said he missed 2 tackles and nowhere does he back that up or refer us to the database being used...but I'll just buy into it because...yea..."

I would lose credibility if I didn't question it lol

I didn't know ESPN's real name was Tobin Petitpas

[nic.zeman24]

hahaha that's hilarious, so ESPN has some secret bias for voting Te'O for Heisman. Any credibility you had, you just lost.

As a author you should link your sources

[the0rangecrush]

No, I'm clearly asking for a link to a page with these stats. I don't see the page anywhere for comparison...do you? So where is he getting his stats from? Try a little harder because until I see an official layout of stats I'm not just gonna be like "Oh this random dude on espn said he missed 2 tackles and nowhere does he back that up or refer us to the database being used...but I'll just buy into it because...yea..."

I would lose credibility if I didn't question it lol

I didn't know ESPN's real name was Tobin Petitpas

Yes it clearly says the ESPN stats, when ESPN displayed the graphic during the Heisman ceremony, they put their stamp on it.

The Stats & Info blog gives you the same information that the ESPN Stats & Information Group provides to its production teams around the company.

[Matymaddog]

For example, you say Manti Te'O is Number 1 in the nation with turnovers. So does this author. Well thats fine and well but according to NCAA.com Durrell Givens from Iowa State had 6 fumble recoveries as well as 3 interceptions. That's completely disregarding he has 4 forced fumbles as well. So...he was definitely not at the top by himself. So he did not LEAD the nation in turnovers. That is false. Therefore disputing the author of that articles credibility as well as yours.

[Matymaddog]

Yes it clearly says the ESPN stats, when ESPN displayed the graphic during the Heisman ceremony, they put their stamp on it.

I'm waiting for the stats database page. ESPN has it for everything else. Why can't I see it for this? Also, I saw nothing during the ceremony about missed tackles.

ESPN has plenty of authors write absurd speculative articles that don't represent the opinion or outlook of ESPN. So no...that argument does not work.

[the0rangecrush]

For example, you say Manti Te'O is Number 1 in the nation with turnovers. So does this author. Well thats fine and well but according to NCAA.com Durrell Givens from Iowa State had 6 fumble recoveries as well as 3 interceptions. That's completely disregarding he has 4 forced fumbles as well. So...he was definitely not at the top by himself. So he did not LEAD the nation in turnovers. That is false. Therefore disputing the author of that articles credibility as well as yours.

When you are tied, you are still leading. Each co-leader is a leader, you don't discredit a guy because he's tied...

[the0rangecrush]

I'm waiting for the stats database page. ESPN has it for everything else. Why can't I see it for this? Also, I saw nothing during the ceremony about missed tackles.

ESPN has plenty of authors write absurd speculative articles that don't represent the opinion or outlook of ESPN. So no...that argument does not work.

then you should go watch it again, because you obviously weren't paying attention

[Matymaddog]

When you are tied, you are still leading. Each co-leader is a leader, you don't discredit a guy because he's tied...

You certainly don't say he "LEAD" the nation. He tied for the lead. The word play is very misleading. Just like he is in a 3-way tie for 2nd in interceptions. The article mentions he is tied for 2nd in interceptions but fails to mention he is tied for first in turnovers. The article also gives zero credit to tackles for a loss, sacks, as well as pass break ups, hurries, and forced fumbles. All important factors in getting a total picture of how effective a defensive player is. The article also has no link to the database of stats used and does not clearly define how they were acquired or how they are collected. Taking statistics courses in college ingrained in me to question where data comes from and how comprehensive it is especially when numbers are thrown around with no link or explanation to the acquisition of the statistics.

[Matymaddog]

then you should go watch it again, because you obviously weren't paying attention

I would love to but I cannot find a link