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Supposedly CJ Mosley's Stock is Slipping

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  • MHSalute
    replied
    My three favorite LBs for us are Shazier, Tripp, and Pierre Louis. I think our D is at its best when we have big time speed at the LB spot. Our 3 man front of Wolfe, Sly/Vick, TK does a real good job of keeping our LBs clean and able to gang tackle the ball carrier. Our run d has been very good, even with undersized LBs at MLB and WSLB. Ware, what use to be Doom's role, gives us the look of a 4-3 by playing close to the line. But whether that guy puts his hand down or not is not a big deal.

    With our offense, the D needs to be built vs the pass first, then the run, but ideally our LBs would be good against both. The last 2 years we have held ball carriers to about 3.5 ypc...last year avg was inflated because we faced a lot of running QBs, but RBs had little success.

    Taking a guy like Shazier or Tripp, who are not pure ILB is just fine if they can become exceptional coverage guys. Trev is pretty good in this area and also diagnoses the play pretty quick to come up and stuff the runs. Add in TJ and I think a LB tilted toward pass coverage is the correct way to go.

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  • notmyname
    replied
    I did make the proclamation that if he was there I was convinced that the Broncos would draft him and I was wrong in doing so..That was just speculation and it has zero relevancy in what the Broncos will actually do ..

    He is is a player that I would be happy with but I'm not as struck with him as to say..That he is only player in the first that I would consider drafting...Although he is at the top or near the top of the list I have mind .. If others disagree by all means I also respect their perspective as well...Personally I have a couple of LB's in mind at every round of the draft ..

    The Alabama aspect does not registry with me ..the injury aspect don't bother me as much either..For reasons being if he is to be drafted he will be poked,prodded and examined to a great extent before a team will draft him..if there is anything sinister there his decent will be far greater than what is being applied in the reasoning of why his stock is slipping ..

    Everything is all there with him as far as instincts and athletic ability..he is a fluid well schooled athlete

    To play devils advocate...My biggest concern about him would be his frame..When reading his measurements they look the part but it don't give a real a good indication of his actual size..I could see where his injuries would be a concern there..

    I think the worse case scenario outside of something that is unforeseeable.. Is that he would not be able to handle the rigors of the position and would be better suited as a WLB ..Which is not identical to but is similar in what is being asked about Shazier as well ..

    I think outside of wanting the Broncos to address a different position or not being particularly interested in him enough to warrant drafting him the first..Makes for acceptable reasons as to why not to draft him..Questioning him on the level of talent he has exhibited is not one of them though..He has very much earned the praise he has gotten to this point ..

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  • Idiot_Kicker
    replied
    Originally posted by japfaff View Post
    Borland cant cover.....I love him as a first and second down player, but he wont be on the field in passing situations.
    This is my concern. The MIKE position is changing. 10 years ago, I wouldn't have as many questions surrounding Borland, but with teams throwing the ball now more than ever, his imitations in coverage have to be a concern

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  • ERoyal248
    replied
    Originally posted by bgpatsfan View Post
    Yes, some Bama players have underwhelmed. But to say that Telvin Smith is a better Mike LB prospect than Mosley is flat out ridiculous. Telvin Smith who is probably 215 lbs? Way too small.

    Mosley is pretty much the unanimous top ILB prospect. There are plenty of Bama players who are studs. Like everyone else said, Dareus is pretty much the Von Miller of DTs; he is a beast on the field when he is focused, but has some focus and off the field concerns. Mosley has top instincts and is a great athlete; he was actually compared to Lavonte David by CBSSports.

    From a patriots fan's perspective on Bama players, Hightower has been incredibly solid. He is pretty big (270lbs) but moves great for his size. Some say that he should drop 10 or 15 lbs, but I think BB likes the size as more of a thumper in the middle. He is an elite run defender and about as solid a tackler as you can be. He also excels at blitzing because he is pretty much bowls over RBs who step up to block him. He is ok in coverage, a lot of his struggles in coverage are overstated. He was actually one of the better LBs in coverage for the pats last year. Spikes was the real liability in coverage.

    http://nesn.com/2013/12/donta-highto...sh-statistics/

    Overall, Hightower is an above average Mike linebacker in the NFL who I believe has pro bowl potential next season playing alongside Mayo and Collins. I think Mosley has the same potential with maybe a little higher upside because he is more of a fluid athlete. I expect Mosley drafted in the first 20-25 picks.
    Spikes allowed just 66.7% comp. 10.6 ypc, 1 TD, 1 PD, 1 INT, 84.0 passer rating.

    Spikes was 14th of 92 ILBs in terms of receptions allowed per snap in coverage, 1 reception every 13.8 snaps in coverage.

    Saw that on twitter.

    Also, Hightower is essentially a 2-down LB, you think he'll be in nickel over Collins or Mayo when NE goes 5+ DB's?

    Wouldnt say horrible in coverage but not his strong suit either.

    Mosely isnt awful but i dont see him as this sure-thing like some do on here. If he's there at 31, sure, but i see a lot of risks with him.

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  • notmyname
    replied
    About the topic of prospects from Alabama

    Perennial winning college football teams will always produce the most selections in the NFL draft .. Whatever opinion you mite have on this topic that will never change..

    These players are not excluded from the hit ratio on whether or not they'll succeed in the NFL..That is most solely based on the individual player..The school that these prospects come from is only one of the many reasons they are protected where they are to be drafted in the NFL.. They could be playing for any number of the major college football programs ..

    The main reason they are projected where they're to be selected in the draft is because they appear to be more talented than the next prospect..What school they came from carries over to all the top schools in college athletics and is hardly exclusive to Alabama's football program ..

    This year Alabama has 3 players that figure to be drafted in and around the first and second round or 3 in the first round wherever you choose to see it..If they had more prospects that projected in that range they would be there however that is not the case...

    The story of the type of prospects that the Tide is sending to NFL is a side story of a side story that will never dictate the amount of or how good the prospects will be in the NFL.. Alabama will continuously have players in the draft and some that will most likely be projected in the top rounds..

    A good number of the major college football programs have some sort of representation in the top 60 and none them is a guaranteed as being a success ..If you was to scout these players you should probably err on the side of scouting the player and not the school that they play for ..

    Leave a comment:


  • japfaff
    replied
    Originally posted by crash123go View Post
    Not true. Borland has the same talent level as Mosley to be a 3down MLB, Avery Williamson looks like a more talented 3 down linebacker then both, while guys Telvin smith and Jordan Tripp both have a higher ceiling then Mosley.

    Mosley is dropping because of injury history and the fact he was originally over valued as a Alabama product. Mosley is a late 2nd/3rd round prospect too me.
    Borland cant cover.....I love him as a first and second down player, but he wont be on the field in passing situations.

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  • bgpatsfan
    replied
    If you skip until the 2 minute mark and watch until the 4 minute mark you will see examples of why he is the top inside LB prospect... 3 plays in particular two run stuffs where he shoots the gap and makes a TFL and another where he fights through traffic to pick up the rb coming out of the backfield in coverage

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeP-0Pp-dgw

    Leave a comment:


  • bgpatsfan
    replied
    Yes, some Bama players have underwhelmed. But to say that Telvin Smith is a better Mike LB prospect than Mosley is flat out ridiculous. Telvin Smith who is probably 215 lbs? Way too small.

    Mosley is pretty much the unanimous top ILB prospect. There are plenty of Bama players who are studs. Like everyone else said, Dareus is pretty much the Von Miller of DTs; he is a beast on the field when he is focused, but has some focus and off the field concerns. Mosley has top instincts and is a great athlete; he was actually compared to Lavonte David by CBSSports.

    From a patriots fan's perspective on Bama players, Hightower has been incredibly solid. He is pretty big (270lbs) but moves great for his size. Some say that he should drop 10 or 15 lbs, but I think BB likes the size as more of a thumper in the middle. He is an elite run defender and about as solid a tackler as you can be. He also excels at blitzing because he is pretty much bowls over RBs who step up to block him. He is ok in coverage, a lot of his struggles in coverage are overstated. He was actually one of the better LBs in coverage for the pats last year. Spikes was the real liability in coverage.

    http://nesn.com/2013/12/donta-highto...sh-statistics/

    Overall, Hightower is an above average Mike linebacker in the NFL who I believe has pro bowl potential next season playing alongside Mayo and Collins. I think Mosley has the same potential with maybe a little higher upside because he is more of a fluid athlete. I expect Mosley drafted in the first 20-25 picks.
    Last edited by bgpatsfan; 03-19-2014, 12:44 AM.

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  • CRL8
    replied
    Just get me Mosley at the end of the 1st or Borland at the end of the 2nd in the draft, please. Bringing in a guy like Pat Angerer as competition/depth wouldn't hurt either.

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  • crash123go
    replied
    Originally posted by brianmcfarlane View Post
    Crash -
    Dareus started all 16 games in 2012 and was a Pro Bowler with 7.5 sacks from the DT position in 2013. I guess Von Miller was picked too high too. Like I said we could debate it but no-way have they been "extremely overvalued". I am not even an Alabama fan.
    Lol ok I'm sure you've done enough to back that statement up

    Leave a comment:


  • Iron Clady
    replied
    I live in Buffalo. Dareus was on and off throughout his first two years, showing stretches of brilliance and then disappearing for a while. Last year, he dominated despite the fact that he was suspended for stretches due to laziness. Dareus is a stud and if he can stop being an idiot will establish himself as a premier DT in the Wilfork mold.

    Leave a comment:


  • brianmcfarlane
    replied
    Crash -
    Dareus started all 16 games in 2012 and was a Pro Bowler with 7.5 sacks from the DT position in 2013. I guess Von Miller was picked too high too. Like I said we could debate it but no-way have they been "extremely overvalued". I am not even an Alabama fan.
    Last edited by brianmcfarlane; 03-18-2014, 03:44 PM.

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  • crash123go
    replied
    Originally posted by brianmcfarlane View Post
    Mark Barron 1st round 2012 (7th pick), Marcell Dareus 1st round (3rd pick), D.J. Fluker 1st (11th pick) 2013 started as rookie, Dont’a Hightower LB 2012 1st round (25th pick) led the team with 97 combined tackles, Kareem Jackson CB 1st round 2010 (20th), Julio Jones WR 1st round, Eddie Lacy RB 2nd round 2013, Dee Milliner CB 1st round 2013 (9th) 3 INT, Chance Warmack G 1st round 2013 (10th) started 16 games... Courtney Upshaw 2nd round ??

    10 players there, you could debate that some were drafted a little high but overall I don't think were "extremely overvalued".
    Trent Richardson hasn't panned out, Terrance Cody?, Dre Kirkpatrick probably overrated some, Andre Smith OT 1st round 2009 (6th) 50 games started was a little high.

    I kind of agree with you that too many Alabama players get recognition that may not be deserved, but after looking at how many have been successful compared to their draft position... I have to disagree.
    Mosely, if there at 31 would not be too soon to pick him, but it depends on who else is there. I really like the speed of Shazier and would still take Shazier over Mosely. I probably would also take Dee Ford over Mosely. Mosely does fill a need but probably not in 2014?? We do already have Irving, Johnson AND possibilities with McCray. We can also get MLB in the later rounds, Tripp or Williamson are certainly prospects in the 5th-7th rounds.
    Barron and Dareus have underperformed as top 10 picks. Dareus was benched his second year in favor of Alex carrington. Barron on the other hand hasn't been a better safety then Rahim Moore so IMO they both were over rated and drafted a round too early. The rookies from last year still get a pass even the good ones, but it's very easy to see that Jackson was over drafted, hightower is purely a run stopper who can't cover and that's horrible for a first round pick and Courtney upshaw is very underwhelming at OLB. All of those players were pumped up because they're from Alabama and were taking WAY too early.

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  • Iron Clady
    replied
    Crash is right saying that many Bama players haven't lived up to the hype but Champ&Dre is correct on the issue of a falling draft stock. Scouts didn't just go, "Oh wait, he plays for Bama. Let's drop him on the board." They would've adjusted for that long ago. And even saying that is questionable to me. You judge individual players based on their skill set.

    If Mosley lasts longer than expected on draft day, it could be for a number of reasons. His health history could drop him. The right player-need situation may not arise until later in the draft. Or maybe he wasn't as highly thought of in the first place. But to say he's dropping at this point in the process because he's from Bama is foolish.

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  • brianmcfarlane
    replied
    Originally posted by crash123go View Post
    Lol your not getting it. Every bama player has been overrated save 2-3 of them. They have been drafted in the 1st or 2nd round and have performed like 3rd-4th round prospects. They are being overrated in their evaluation because of the team at Alabama, The overall talent of the team masks the weaknesses of every player in their lineup to make them look better then they are. Alabama players have been extremely overvalued for 6-7 years
    Mark Barron 1st round 2012 (7th pick), Marcell Dareus 1st round (3rd pick), D.J. Fluker 1st (11th pick) 2013 started as rookie, Dont’a Hightower LB 2012 1st round (25th pick) led the team with 97 combined tackles, Kareem Jackson CB 1st round 2010 (20th), Julio Jones WR 1st round, Eddie Lacy RB 2nd round 2013, Dee Milliner CB 1st round 2013 (9th) 3 INT, Chance Warmack G 1st round 2013 (10th) started 16 games... Courtney Upshaw 2nd round ??

    10 players there, you could debate that some were drafted a little high but overall I don't think were "extremely overvalued".
    Trent Richardson hasn't panned out, Terrance Cody?, Dre Kirkpatrick probably overrated some, Andre Smith OT 1st round 2009 (6th) 50 games started was a little high.

    I kind of agree with you that too many Alabama players get recognition that may not be deserved, but after looking at how many have been successful compared to their draft position... I have to disagree.
    Mosely, if there at 31 would not be too soon to pick him, but it depends on who else is there. I really like the speed of Shazier and would still take Shazier over Mosely. I probably would also take Dee Ford over Mosely. Mosely does fill a need but probably not in 2014?? We do already have Irving, Johnson AND possibilities with McCray. We can also get MLB in the later rounds, Tripp or Williamson are certainly prospects in the 5th-7th rounds.

    Leave a comment:

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