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Drafting a QB, Who I think we should be looking at and a few other tidbits

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  • #31
    Originally posted by fraguela09 View Post
    Huh? If there’s a franchise QB to be had minus the flaws this crop has... by all means. Didn’t think my position delved into the realm of thought experiment... when you reach for a good prospect (Mayfield) over elite BPA talent (Nelson, Barkley) you are drafting more on hope than logic.
    Don't all top QB prospects have some flaws, unless you're talking about an Elway or Luck?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by fraguela09 View Post
      Huh? If there’s a franchise QB to be had minus the flaws this crop has... by all means. Didn’t think my position delved into the realm of thought experiment... when you reach for a good prospect (Mayfield) over elite BPA talent (Nelson, Barkley) you are drafting more on hope than logic.
      Doesn't every QB have flaws? How do you know they will be busts? Its not very often the Draft has a Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck where its a no brainer but even those guys were 2nd guessed. Colts contemplated Leaf and RG3, obviously they made the right calls but you never know until these guys take the field.

      If Denver doesn't take a QB now when do they? Do they just go through history signing every old average free agent that comes around? I don't think that Elway can take the chance and hope that Kelly turns into something. If Elway doesn't take a QB at #5 than I don't think he should take 1 at all because those 2nd and 3rd rounders are just as important to the depth to this team than that impact guy is at 5.

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      • #33
        A good example for this discussion is the 2008 draft, when Miami and St. Louis drafted the top-2 prospects, the "can't-miss" prospects, Jake Long and Chris Long, over an "OK, but nothing great" QB, Matt Ryan.
        sigpic

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        • #34
          Originally posted by gerontion View Post
          Don't all top QB prospects have some flaws, unless you're talking about an Elway or Luck?
          I’m only commenting on this specific crop of QB prospects, who’ll be in this upcoming draft.

          Darnold has pretty bad mechanics and is raw, Rosen has major attitude red flags, Allen has the measurable by is far too inaccurate, and Mayfield is short with his own flaws.

          Some fans are acting like this is the 1983 draft... this isn’t even Eli, Rivers, Big Ben.

          So, if this is truly the case and this decision is reached in DEN... then it would be foolish for Denver to reach... and gamble.

          Why?

          Because the first 4 BPA prospects are considered elite... Elite is better than good,
          I THINK we all can agree.

          Now, if we want to wax philosophical.... sure,
          we can talk about mitigating risk and how perceived flaws are worked on and blah blah....

          DEN has a bridge QB and they have, in essence, 2 young first round type QBs (and if Paxton and Kelly were in this draft where might they fall)....

          Unless DEN fella there’s a can’t miss stud then no sense in selling farm to move up... heck, if there’s even some doubt... I pass and take a Nelson and a barkley.

          While people clamor for their guy, perhaps waiting on a Jackson, Rudolph, Lee, Falk or whatnot in round two might be wiser... like dak.

          Imagine if DEN takes Mayfield. He sits for 2 years. Then turns out to be a bust.... and Barkley is next M-Faulk and Nelson the next Hutchinson.

          With the info in hand.... they better feel good about a QB if they pass on an elite prospect.

          This is my point. If they are 50/50 on an a Allen or Mayfield or Rosen... they won’t be able to justify passing on Nelson.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by fraguela09 View Post
            I’m only commenting on this specific crop of QB prospects, who’ll be in this upcoming draft.

            Darnold has pretty bad mechanics and is raw, Rosen has major attitude red flags, Allen has the measurable by is far too inaccurate, and Mayfield is short with his own flaws.

            Some fans are acting like this is the 1983 draft... this isn’t even Eli, Rivers, Big Ben.

            So, if this is truly the case and this decision is reached in DEN... then it would be foolish for Denver to reach... and gamble.

            Why?

            Because the first 4 BPA prospects are considered elite... Elite is better than good,
            I THINK we all can agree.

            Now, if we want to wax philosophical.... sure,
            we can talk about mitigating risk and how perceived flaws are worked on and blah blah....

            DEN has a bridge QB and they have, in essence, 2 young first round type QBs (and if Paxton and Kelly were in this draft where might they fall)....

            Unless DEN fella there’s a can’t miss stud then no sense in selling farm to move up... heck, if there’s even some doubt... I pass and take a Nelson and a barkley.

            While people clamor for their guy, perhaps waiting on a Jackson, Rudolph, Lee, Falk or whatnot in round two might be wiser... like dak.

            Imagine if DEN takes Mayfield. He sits for 2 years. Then turns out to be a bust.... and Barkley is next M-Faulk and Nelson the next Hutchinson.

            With the info in hand.... they better feel good about a QB if they pass on an elite prospect.

            This is my point. If they are 50/50 on an a Allen or Mayfield or Rosen... they won’t be able to justify passing on Nelson.
            I don’t believe the “red flags” reported about Rosen. After some research on some of his comments I found some of them were cherry picked and taken out of context. A lot of information flies around the internet on these prospects - some things are true while others are not.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by fraguela09 View Post
              I’m only commenting on this specific crop of QB prospects, who’ll be in this upcoming draft.

              Darnold has pretty bad mechanics and is raw, Rosen has major attitude red flags, Allen has the measurable by is far too inaccurate, and Mayfield is short with his own flaws.

              Some fans are acting like this is the 1983 draft... this isn’t even Eli, Rivers, Big Ben.

              So, if this is truly the case and this decision is reached in DEN... then it would be foolish for Denver to reach... and gamble.

              Why?

              Because the first 4 BPA prospects are considered elite... Elite is better than good,
              I THINK we all can agree.

              Now, if we want to wax philosophical.... sure,
              we can talk about mitigating risk and how perceived flaws are worked on and blah blah....

              DEN has a bridge QB and they have, in essence, 2 young first round type QBs (and if Paxton and Kelly were in this draft where might they fall)....

              Unless DEN fella there’s a can’t miss stud then no sense in selling farm to move up... heck, if there’s even some doubt... I pass and take a Nelson and a barkley.

              While people clamor for their guy, perhaps waiting on a Jackson, Rudolph, Lee, Falk or whatnot in round two might be wiser... like dak.

              Imagine if DEN takes Mayfield. He sits for 2 years. Then turns out to be a bust.... and Barkley is next M-Faulk and Nelson the next Hutchinson.

              With the info in hand.... they better feel good about a QB if they pass on an elite prospect.

              This is my point. If they are 50/50 on an a Allen or Mayfield or Rosen... they won’t be able to justify passing on Nelson.
              This is all based on your own personal opinion too though. Imagine if Mayfield turns into Brees, you would still have Hutchinson over Brees? It's all speculation.

              Why waste a 2nd or 3rd on Jackson, Rudolph, Lee or Falk when they are likely to be bust's too. Aren't those 2nd and 3rd picks better used on ILB, WR, RT, RB, DB?

              I would be happy with Nelson or Barkley or Chubb or Fitz because I know they will be very good. But, as hard as it is to find that long term franchise QB you have to keep trying when you have an opportunity like this. Imo, Allen is the only gamble. Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield are all going to be good QBs. You don't think it is but I do, I think this is the Big Ben - Eli- Rivers type draft

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              • #37
                Rosen's character...

                Here, from someone who is qualifed to have an opinion on it...

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by -Rod- View Post
                  A good example for this discussion is the 2008 draft, when Miami and St. Louis drafted the top-2 prospects, the "can't-miss" prospects, Jake Long and Chris Long, over an "OK, but nothing great" QB, Matt Ryan.
                  Yep. Andrew Mason compiled some great research about QBs and where they're selected in the draft vs their super bowl visits and pro bowls. I dont have it bookmarked but it shouldn't be hard to find.

                  Anyway it detailed how QBs picked in the top 5 are vastly more likely to be pro bowlers and take you to the super bowl, and it's not a small margin even when compared to other first round QBs.

                  My point is that when you are picking in the top 5, and you don't have an established franchise QB, you have to draft one. Odds dictate that you're going to be better off than if you draft a different position and get a QB later.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post
                    This is all based on your own personal opinion too though. Imagine if Mayfield turns into Brees, you would still have Hutchinson over Brees? It's all speculation.

                    Why waste a 2nd or 3rd on Jackson, Rudolph, Lee or Falk when they are likely to be bust's too. Aren't those 2nd and 3rd picks better used on ILB, WR, RT, RB, DB?

                    I would be happy with Nelson or Barkley or Chubb or Fitz because I know they will be very good. But, as hard as it is to find that long term franchise QB you have to keep trying when you have an opportunity like this. Imo, Allen is the only gamble. Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield are all going to be good QBs. You don't think it is but I do, I think this is the Big Ben - Eli- Rivers type draft
                    Obviously it is.... I’m simply conjecturing based on reports... and stating that if this was the same intel I was getting as a paid exec vetting these prospects.... and I was basing my decision on who to draft.... then, and only then, I would take the safe route.

                    But, like you said, if I believed otherwise... And DEN did coach both Allen and Mayfield for a week and certainly did their homework on Rosen, Darnold, Jax and the rest... and if they fell in love with a QB and selected them at 5... I’m fine with that.

                    It’s just that.... this is not the year to follow the precept of “if you can’t be with the one you love then love the one you’re with.”

                    Heck, I don’t even mind selling the farm to move up to 1 if they feel Darnold or Rosen is a cant miss.

                    I’ll add this tho, if DEN trades up and their QB goes bus... that costs dEN 4 starters and sets team back half a decade.

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                    • #40
                      Darnold looks like a franchise Qb . His accuracy was spot on and his demeanor is great. Seems like a humble kid. His release looks quick. I can see him going #1 over all. If we move up to get him i wont be mad . There are so many good players in this draft it seems like more then usual. Cant we just use all our draft picks @#5? Lol. With the 5th pick in the 2018 draft the Denver Broncos select Qb Sam Darnold , Guard Quenton Nelson , Lb T. Edmonds , safety Fitzpatrick , tackle Will Hernandez and running back S Barkley 😁.......one can daydream

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                      • #41
                        'Overwhelming sense' is Darnold goes No. 1

                        According to ESPN's Jeff Darlington, the "overwhelming sense" at USC QB Sam Darnold's Wednesday Pro Day is that Darnold will be the No. 1 overall pick in April's draft.

                        All reports were positive on Darnold's Wednesday performance in front of execs and scouts, and the general feeling coming out of the Combine was Darnold is the Browns' top target. In addition to coach Hue Jackson and new GM John Dorsey, owner Jimmy Haslam attended Darnold's Pro Day and took notes in the stands. A gunslinger whose technique needs polish, Darnold blends similar skills of Matthew Stafford and Tony Romo. After acquiring Tyrod Taylor, the Browns would have the luxury of sitting Darnold for most if not all of his first year.

                        (Rotoworld)

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                        • #42
                          Yeah when the owner sits with your parents at your pro day that says a lot.

                          Or hes one upping elways 7 personnel at oks pro day
                          Glen Haven Fire

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                          • #43
                            Owner of CLE sat next next to Darnold’s parents today. Looks like NYG now on the clock.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by fraguela09 View Post
                              Owner of CLE sat next next to Darnold’s parents today. Looks like NYG now on the clock.
                              Yeah I was going to say what was the Browns FO doing, giving away the obvious pick they had but then I realized, at pick #1 you can telegraph whatever you want, say whatever you want and it won't matter.
                              Superbowl 50 Champions!

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by fraguela09 View Post
                                Owner of CLE sat next next to Darnold’s parents today. Looks like NYG now on the clock.
                                NYG picks Rosen, I'd be willing to CP bet anyone this
                                Superbowl 50 Champions!

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