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  • #16
    Originally posted by mozzerpete View Post
    I prefer Denver sign Rodgers or Brady for that type of money in FA, but they are not available.
    IMO, Denver should solidify their DL + OL which inevitably will help our passing game and DBs on defense.

    However, this thread was about "improving the DL."
    I wanted to include Clowney in this conversation as another potential FA addition.

    DE Jadeveon Clowney + DT/NT Grady Jarrett + DT Jordan Phillips would be my preferred signings in FA for the DL.

    It seems you're caught up on money which is totally understandable.
    What would you offer DE Jadeveon Clowney in FA or any DLmen you prefer for that matter?
    depends if we stay in a 3-4 peko is good but he is old and defintelly lost something through the years. i think our weak spot on the D-line as it stands now is the Nose Tackle spot

    i would like to look for a nose so i'd have to check whos out there and whos availible in the draft. i don't think we need much of an upgrade. i'd like to see more walker in general on the D-line. i think he played well but i feel the rortation at DE with Gotsis, Walker and Harris is actually pretty strong expecially if include wolfe and kerr (who is a hybrid and is a okay nt or DE but not really great at either. still a great depth guy.) what we are really weak at is NT. so Jordan Phillips raises my eye brows. but i mean out side of peko we have kerr at NT and Kerr seems to be an average nt at best. i don't think we need to focus on upgrading these spots. where need to focus on upgrading is CB, ILB OT and QB. i would rather see the money used to lure those types of players here then the D-line unless we can get some one at really good price.

    i think i would give clowney 15 to 17k and i think he will be getting 20-23 like your saying. i just don't think the one paying him that is very smart.
    sigpic
    oakland raders gm
    latavis murray trade bait

    Comment


    • #17
      Clowney is an elite level run defender, I believe he’s tied for stuffs the past 2 or 3 seasons with Aaron Donald and top 5 in TFL. He had 21 TFL last season alone, and that isn’t including how many TFL that he caused for his teammates by blowing up runs.

      I think Houston gets too cute with him as a pass rusher at times. He’s used on a lot of stunts and twists as well as blitzing up the A gap. It isn’t that he isn’t good at it, he’s damn good at it, but QBs and olines are much more cognizant of him where as a guy like Von Miller while he gets all these sacks he’s always on one side of the field and to be honest he doesn’t always have his motor fully revved. If Miller played with Clowney’s energy Miller would set the single season sack record with an absurd amount of sacks. Clowney is just a violent player out on the field, Miller is a lot more finesse/technique oriented. You put those two together and have them take something from each other’s play styles and the NFL will eliminate holding against our pass rush altogether.

      Bottom line is, Clowney can’t be judged off his stats. You have to watch him to really appreciate what he does for your defense.

      Comment


      • #18
        I don’t think Elway is going to rush to revisit guys who snubbed him for more money elsewhere.

        Unless Elway’s price just happens to be the best they can find, I doubt either one will be in Denver next season.

        I doubt the Broncos find a way to fit Clowney into the budget either.
        My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
        You Mad Bro?
        Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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        • #19
          Originally posted by broncolee View Post
          I don’t think Elway is going to rush to revisit guys who snubbed him for more money elsewhere.

          Unless Elway’s price just happens to be the best they can find, I doubt either one will be in Denver next season.

          I doubt the Broncos find a way to fit Clowney into the budget either.
          He brought back Osweiler.

          Comment


          • #20
            I think Campbell is too old (32) to go after with lots of money, if he would take a team friendly deal (2 years ~7M per year?) then he would be a player to seek... I don't see that happening. It does look like he has a good chance of being cut considering his current contract - 3M dead cap hit next season, 15M if they keep him.
            I would be surprised if Malik was interested in playing for the Broncos considering his talk when he left. Also, Jax may want to keep him, especially if they cut Campbell.
            At the right price, Campbell would be good to have here for a year or 2 but the Broncos are probably not SB contenders next season and Campbell would probably be a player that you add to complete your team to contend.
            I would go after CJ Mosley and Ronald Darby ... Mosley's market value is ~10M, maybe a little less, a little high for an ILB but I think he would be worth it, 26 years old... I assume Baltimore will try to keep him there though.
            Darby would be expensive but the Broncos need another CB of his caliber, he turns 25 in January. His market value is > ~13M.
            I also would take a serious look at Ja'Wuan James at OT/RT, right now he is in his 5th year option year at 9.34M, the highest paid RT currently. Considering Schwartz is getting 7.7M and is probably considered better? James' value should be no more than ~7M per year... not sure of the value for James but he seems to be about the best reasonable FA OT in 2019?
            The Broncos should have the cap room to go after a couple of players that will command relatively high salaries.
            sigpic

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
              depends if we stay in a 3-4 peko is good but he is old and defintelly lost something through the years. i think our weak spot on the D-line as it stands now is the Nose Tackle spot

              i would like to look for a nose so i'd have to check whos out there and whos availible in the draft. i don't think we need much of an upgrade. i'd like to see more walker in general on the D-line. i think he played well but i feel the rortation at DE with Gotsis, Walker and Harris is actually pretty strong expecially if include wolfe and kerr (who is a hybrid and is a okay nt or DE but not really great at either. still a great depth guy.) what we are really weak at is NT. so Jordan Phillips raises my eye brows. but i mean out side of peko we have kerr at NT and Kerr seems to be an average nt at best. i don't think we need to focus on upgrading these spots. where need to focus on upgrading is CB, ILB OT and QB. i would rather see the money used to lure those types of players here then the D-line unless we can get some one at really good price.

              i think i would give clowney 15 to 17k and i think he will be getting 20-23 like your saying. i just don't think the one paying him that is very smart.
              This is my ultimate defensive hybrid solution to solidify Denver's D for years to come.
              (brace yourself, lol)

              I would like to see more of Walker too with the anticipation of re-signing him.

              34DT Peko will be a FA; 2018 cap of $4.2M (gone)
              34DE Kerr will also be a FA; 2018 cap of $1.7M
              (re-signed)

              DT/NT Jordan Phillips (2018 cap of roughly $1M) is listed as a 43DT but at 26, 6' 6", 334, 28 bench (Peko had 25);
              at the very least, I think he can back up Peko's replacement for less $$$.

              I would re-sign NT Shelby Harris ($$) as Peko's replacement (Harris) ASAP.
              I would also re-sign DE Zach Kerr ($).

              Harris and FA Phillips ($) would be Denver's NT/DT going forward.

              ————————————————————————————————————————————

              DL hybrid core: (DC could get creative, starters in bold)

              rushDE Chubb, Miller (SLB)
              DL Walker, Gotsis, Kaufusi [BYU '19R5]
              NT/DT Harris $$, Phillips $
              DE Clowney $$$$, Kerr $

              ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

              I'm torn between ILB Devin White in R1 or LT Bolles' potential R1 replacement. (Bolles to G.)


              LB hybrid core:

              WILB Jewell -or-TJ Edwards [Wisconsin '19R3]
              SILB White [LSU '19 R1], Jones or Johnson or Bierra
              SLB Miller, Holland

              UFA LB Shaquil Barrett wants to be a Cowboy. (gone)
              UFA LB Shane Ray wants to be a Chief. (gone)

              ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

              CB core:

              Chris Harris Jr.
              FA Ronald Darby $$$ (Harris' future replacement)
              FA Jason McCourty $$ (veteran CB- one year)
              FA E.J. Gaines $$ (Future #3 or future slot)
              Isaac Yiadom (jury is out)
              Brendan Langley (jury is out)

              DB/S core:

              Justin Simmons
              Will Parks
              Dymonte Thomas
              Su'a Cravens
              Jamal Carter (jury is out)

              ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

              Perhaps unrealistic but possible given the cap saved by releasing:

              ILB Marshall (5M cap saved),
              ILB Davis (3M cap saved),
              DE Wolfe (8M cap saved),
              S Stewart (5M cap saved)
              NT Peko ($4.2M cap roll over)

              = roughly 25M cleared cap available for defensive FAs, not including cap space freed on Offense.
              (Take 25M from 2019 cap space/roll over fund to completely sign defensive FAs, $50M total)

              Hopefully, Denver's DC could make this theoretical-unit shine.

              The End. lol

              Comment


              • #22
                Wow! The Jags are in some serious cap trouble next year. Comparing them to the Rams the lesson learned is not to spend a lot of money in FA if you don't have a QB, you simply won't get the results.

                It looks like a roster purge is coming for the Jags

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by gerontion View Post
                  He brought back Osweiler.
                  For vet minimum while the Browns were paying Brock big $ they inherited from Houston in the trade.
                  "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by mozzerpete View Post
                    This is my ultimate defensive hybrid solution to solidify Denver's D for years to come.
                    (brace yourself, lol)

                    I would like to see more of Walker too with the anticipation of re-signing him.

                    34DT Peko will be a FA; 2018 cap of $4.2M (gone)
                    34DE Kerr will also be a FA; 2018 cap of $1.7M
                    (re-signed)

                    DT/NT Jordan Phillips (2018 cap of roughly $1M) is listed as a 43DT but at 26, 6' 6", 334, 28 bench (Peko had 25);
                    at the very least, I think he can back up Peko's replacement for less $$$.

                    I would re-sign NT Shelby Harris ($$) as Peko's replacement (Harris) ASAP.
                    I would also re-sign DE Zach Kerr ($).

                    Harris and FA Phillips ($) would be Denver's NT/DT going forward.

                    ————————————————————————————————————————————

                    DL hybrid core: (DC could get creative, starters in bold)

                    rushDE Chubb, Miller (SLB)
                    DL Walker, Gotsis, Kaufusi [BYU '19R5]
                    NT/DT Harris $$, Phillips $
                    DE Clowney $$$$, Kerr $

                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    I'm torn between ILB Devin White in R1 or LT Bolles' potential R1 replacement. (Bolles to G.)


                    LB hybrid core:

                    WILB Jewell -or-TJ Edwards [Wisconsin '19R3]
                    SILB White [LSU '19 R1], Jones or Johnson or Bierra
                    SLB Miller, Holland

                    UFA LB Shaquil Barrett wants to be a Cowboy. (gone)
                    UFA LB Shane Ray wants to be a Chief. (gone)

                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    CB core:

                    Chris Harris Jr.
                    FA Ronald Darby $$$ (Harris' future replacement)
                    FA Jason McCourty $$ (veteran CB- one year)
                    FA E.J. Gaines $$ (Future #3 or future slot)
                    Isaac Yiadom (jury is out)
                    Brendan Langley (jury is out)

                    DB/S core:

                    Justin Simmons
                    Will Parks
                    Dymonte Thomas
                    Su'a Cravens
                    Jamal Carter (jury is out)

                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    Perhaps unrealistic but possible given the cap saved by releasing:

                    ILB Marshall (5M cap saved),
                    ILB Davis (3M cap saved),
                    DE Wolfe (8M cap saved),
                    S Stewart (5M cap saved)
                    NT Peko ($4.2M cap roll over)

                    = roughly 25M cleared cap available for defensive FAs, not including cap space freed on Offense.
                    (Take 25M from 2019 cap space/roll over fund to completely sign defensive FAs, $50M total)

                    Hopefully, Denver's DC could make this theoretical-unit shine.

                    The End. lol
                    One gap or two gap?
                    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by mozzerpete View Post
                      This is my ultimate defensive hybrid solution to solidify Denver's D for years to come.
                      (brace yourself, lol)

                      I would like to see more of Walker too with the anticipation of re-signing him.

                      34DT Peko will be a FA; 2018 cap of $4.2M (gone)
                      34DE Kerr will also be a FA; 2018 cap of $1.7M
                      (re-signed)

                      DT/NT Jordan Phillips (2018 cap of roughly $1M) is listed as a 43DT but at 26, 6' 6", 334, 28 bench (Peko had 25);
                      at the very least, I think he can back up Peko's replacement for less $$$.

                      I would re-sign NT Shelby Harris ($$) as Peko's replacement (Harris) ASAP.
                      I would also re-sign DE Zach Kerr ($).

                      Harris and FA Phillips ($) would be Denver's NT/DT going forward.

                      ————————————————————————————————————————————

                      DL hybrid core: (DC could get creative, starters in bold)

                      rushDE Chubb, Miller (SLB)
                      DL Walker, Gotsis, Kaufusi [BYU '19R5]
                      NT/DT Harris $$, Phillips $
                      DE Clowney $$$$, Kerr $

                      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      I'm torn between ILB Devin White in R1 or LT Bolles' potential R1 replacement. (Bolles to G.)


                      LB hybrid core:

                      WILB Jewell -or-TJ Edwards [Wisconsin '19R3]
                      SILB White [LSU '19 R1], Jones or Johnson or Bierra
                      SLB Miller, Holland

                      UFA LB Shaquil Barrett wants to be a Cowboy. (gone)
                      UFA LB Shane Ray wants to be a Chief. (gone)

                      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      CB core:

                      Chris Harris Jr.
                      FA Ronald Darby $$$ (Harris' future replacement)
                      FA Jason McCourty $$ (veteran CB- one year)
                      FA E.J. Gaines $$ (Future #3 or future slot)
                      Isaac Yiadom (jury is out)
                      Brendan Langley (jury is out)

                      DB/S core:

                      Justin Simmons
                      Will Parks
                      Dymonte Thomas
                      Su'a Cravens
                      Jamal Carter (jury is out)

                      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      Perhaps unrealistic but possible given the cap saved by releasing:

                      ILB Marshall (5M cap saved),
                      ILB Davis (3M cap saved),
                      DE Wolfe (8M cap saved),
                      S Stewart (5M cap saved)
                      NT Peko ($4.2M cap roll over)

                      = roughly 25M cleared cap available for defensive FAs, not including cap space freed on Offense.
                      (Take 25M from 2019 cap space/roll over fund to completely sign defensive FAs, $50M total)

                      Hopefully, Denver's DC could make this theoretical-unit shine.

                      The End. lol
                      like i said i don't really like von at SLB in the 4-3 i prefer him at DE. i also don't like jewel at WLB at all. you need a coverage guy there. and jewel is in the bottom half in coverage.
                      sigpic
                      oakland raders gm
                      latavis murray trade bait

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                        One gap or two gap?
                        Ideally a 4-3 Defensive Front – 1 Gap Technique but with Miller playing a QB Rover role.

                        Miller is the Super Bowl MVP of Denver's defense, and he gets paid accordingly.
                        I think it's time Elway allows his superstar to play free.
                        As QBRover, Miller would be the ultimate wildcard.
                        (We need to get creative, lol)

                        Realistically a hybrid 4-3 front using a combination of one and two gap schemes.

                        Here's the "breakdown"
                        One Gap: Chubb and Clowney
                        Two gap: Harris, Phillips
                        One or two gaps (depending on call): Gotsis, Walker, Kaufusi, Kerr,

                        Corbin Kaufusi, 3-4DE, BYU reminds me of Wolfe and Gotsis.
                        He did work on Wisconsin right tackle David Edwards.
                        Kaufusi eventually replaces Gotsis.

                        ——————————————————————————————

                        QBRover Von Miller free to cause havoc.
                        ILB Devin White (the next Ray Lewis) can man the middle.
                        LB TJ Edwards can also defend the run and pass.

                        ——————————————————————————————

                        Harris Jr + Ronald Darby
                        Simmons + Parks

                        Eventually, I would move Harris Jr. to S when his play starts to decline,
                        then when he retires, I'd offer him the DB coaching position.

                        ————————————————————————————————————————————

                        Who knows? The team could decide to pack up and move to Los Angeles too.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
                          like i said i don't really like von at SLB in the 4-3 i prefer him at DE. i also don't like jewel at WLB at all. you need a coverage guy there. and jewel is in the bottom half in coverage.
                          Honestly, I did not think I would have to get into such detail with you.
                          I kind of like it, lol.

                          Hopefully, my previous post helped on Miller.

                          I honestly had high hopes for Jewell as I thought he would be a steal.
                          Sadly, Cravens has not worked out as hoped either.
                          Having Barr would be great FA addition, but he'd cost too much $$$$.
                          I'd rather have Clowney because his play at DE could be the difference our teams needs.

                          TJ Edwards could overtake Jewell's spot, but the jury is still out on Jewell.

                          Ideally Denver would sub in a DB on obvious passing plays, or hopefully, Edwards pans out as a cover LB next to ILB White.

                          Again, who knows what Elway will decide?

                          All I know is Denver needs an infusion of depth on the OL.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by mozzerpete View Post
                            Ideally a 4-3 Defensive Front – 1 Gap Technique but with Miller playing a QB Rover role.

                            Miller is the Super Bowl MVP of Denver's defense, and he gets paid accordingly.
                            I think it's time Elway allows his superstar to play free.
                            As QBRover, Miller would be the ultimate wildcard.
                            (We need to get creative, lol)

                            Realistically a hybrid 4-3 front using a combination of one and two gap schemes.

                            Here's the "breakdown"
                            One Gap: Chubb and Clowney
                            Two gap: Harris, Phillips
                            One or two gaps (depending on call): Gotsis, Walker, Kaufusi, Kerr,

                            Corbin Kaufusi, 3-4DE, BYU reminds me of Wolfe and Gotsis.
                            He did work on Wisconsin right tackle David Edwards.
                            Kaufusi eventually replaces Gotsis.

                            ——————————————————————————————

                            QBRover Von Miller free to cause havoc.
                            ILB Devin White (the next Ray Lewis) can man the middle.
                            LB TJ Edwards can also defend the run and pass.

                            ——————————————————————————————

                            Harris Jr + Ronald Darby
                            Simmons + Parks

                            Eventually, I would move Harris Jr. to S when his play starts to decline,
                            then when he retires, I'd offer him the DB coaching position.

                            ————————————————————————————————————————————

                            Who knows? The team could decide to pack up and move to Los Angeles too.
                            While it's true that one or two gap run defense can be played from either an odd front or a split front, it isn't true that defenses play both one and two gap. The reason has to do with personnel, technique and reads.

                            If two gap/funnel run defense is to be used, it is essential to have D-Linemen who command a double. In an odd front (3-4, 50) that would be the 0 and 4/5 techs. In a split front (wide 9) that would be the 2 techs and at least the tight side 5. These guys must not be moved from the LOS while they are reading the blocks they are absorbing. They must be able to split or shed a double to make a play on a runner funneled inside by the perimeter defenders.

                            One gap/spill D-Linemen/Backers attack and fill a specific gap. They must be quick off the snap to occupy but not go through the assigned gap. They need good vision and reflexes to locate and pursue the ball. They need to be big and strong enough to keep their feet in the midst of the opposing O-Line. If all gaps are properly filled on a run, the ball carrier will be tackled in the box area, or will be spilled to the sideline with front side pursuit and back side defenders to prevent cutback/counter. The concept is to fill the gaps and pursue, so speed of all defenders is necessary to provide pursuit to the sideline.

                            Two gap run D is read and react by all members of the front seven. The reads by the Mike in a split front or the Inside Backers in an odd front have several steps in a progression. Backers in an odd front usually start their progression of reads with the uncovered Guards. Mike in a split front starts his read with the uncovered Center and scans from there to the meshpoint. The Backer reads in two gap run D are much more complicated than one gap.

                            Since there are technically six gaps (two each of A, B and C) six of the front seven in a one gap run D are assigned those gaps. The only reads they make is in which direction the gaps move and to flow to the ball. Where one gap is read and react, two gap is attack and pursue.

                            At all levels, but especially in the NFL, the necessary personnel must be in place in order to run one or the other. It seems very unlikely that both one and two gap could be used by one defense in the same season because they are coached and played very differently. It would be too much to learn and do, and would cause players (especially Backers) to do too much thinking which would detract from their making plays.
                            Last edited by samparnell; 11-29-2018, 06:52 AM.
                            "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I would love to see Clowney, Miller and Chubb on the Line that would be sick lol !

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by DENVERSB50CHAMP View Post
                                I would love to see Clowney, Miller and Chubb on the Line that would be sick lol !
                                Clowney is an above average player who's going to get paid like a superstar because that's what happens in free agency. But signing him doesn't address what the Broncos actually need, interior pass rush options.

                                As for Campbell and Jackson. Jackson is younger, but not having a good season this year. He'll get overpaid by someone based on what he's done previously, but there are warning signs.

                                Campbell will get a big contract from someone but based on age he's realistically getting paid for what he's done in his career and not what he will do during that contract. If he would come for a reasonable price he'd be the one I'd sign, but I think some team (San Fran or Indy) will give him a massive contract hoping he is a piece they desperately need to help their defenses.

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