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  • Our Roster is a few year off of being a true contender

    i look at our needs and i see to many truely big needs to be convinced tht we don't need alot of picks to fix our holes

    we need a #1 cb which normally ou will need to use a first round pick on. Harris can be a #1 but he is the best #2 and slot Corner in the league. you want to be able to use his versitality. taking it is one of his best traits. ideally if we could get a guy who can lock down the number 1 consistently like talib we can move back to having Harris be a versitile nightmare for the other.

    we need a LT (and lot of other help on the o-line) i think we need help at every spot minus C, taking paradis returns. i still like mcgovern i think he is getting better and only is on the rise at C or OG. i think he could play either but will he ever be elite. i don't know i think he could be above average at either position with more developing.

    Bolles has looked better recently, i still don't trust him on the blind being a protector . i think he would fit fine at RT maybe a G. he will probably still be starting. i will just be sad if it is still at LT.

    Leary has been a dispointment, and veldheer is in the last year of his career.


    WE need a ILB. we have no valued this position and found steals later, but now i look at this LB crew and we simply lack nfl speed to do things you need to do in the nfl. we don't have a LBer witht he range to cover sideline to sideline. we two ted backers starting. aka guy who are great down hill backers. good in the run. terrible in coverage. we despartly need a coverage LB. a guy with the speed to cover TE or RB. this has been a huge thing recently we have been lacking look at KElse numbers against us. or Kittles numbers with niners.

    i see alot of people mention D-line. i don't buy it. i think we need to see more kerr at NT. peko is 35 and has a few year he can play. so we will need a NT. i really Like our DE's moving forward. Gotsis and Harris are Both young both looking like some of the Better DE in the league. they do there job well and occupy blockers. i feel our run defense issues has been more in the LB core being out of position then the D-line not occupying blockers. i also can't wait to see walker rotated as a pass rushing DE. i feel he has flashed a little bit this season. i think next season will be the year he breaks out. leaving us 3 Deep at DE.

    Lastly we need a QB, honestly i would argue multiple QB. i think we need a back up and a starting QB. honestly we need a huge talent infusion in these next few drafts to this position. i don't think it would a bad idea to do something like Ryan Finaly in the second and then another QB in the first, taking i really like Eason Fromm, and Tua. i think next years draft class will be loaded. but there is good value early to mid rounds with the QB in this draft. we may be able to find a average starting QB and a Star starting QB over these next few drafts. or at least hopefully we can find a really good back up and a Star QB.
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  • #2
    I don't really buy what you're saying. People always assume you need to fill every single hole with an all-pro in order to be a contender. But the truth is often filling one hole has ripple effects and covers for other holes. If you can get a good player in the draft and the guy next to him plays average you've improved two spots. Scheme can also help cover holes, just as it can create holes. As an example, the Broncos defensive scheme is a big reason they have trouble covering TEs.

    The two holes the Broncos absolutely have to fill are QB and coaching staff. After that I think they need an anchor lineman at C, and 1 more lineman. defensively they need help at LBx 2 (in a regular 4-3) and another corner. The first two need to be the biggest priorities of the offseason.

    But I don't buy the "years away from being a contender" especially in the NFL where teams routinely go from worst to first.

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    • #3
      I’m pretty sure Paradis is considered one of the better centers.

      They just need him to come back healthy.

      On defense, I think they need a stud on the line and then a stud CB.

      On offense they need a quarterback and a stud guard or maybe a stud left tackle that allows them to move Bolles to the right side or to guard.
      My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
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      • #4
        Originally posted by broncolee View Post
        I’m pretty sure Paradis is considered one of the better centers.

        They just need him to come back healthy.

        On defense, I think they need a stud on the line and then a stud CB.

        On offense they need a quarterback and a stud guard or maybe a stud left tackle that allows them to move Bolles to the right side or to guard.
        He is by PFF, but I just don't see it when I watch him play. He's good at getting to the second level on a zone run, but isn't a good fit for a power scheme, and can struggle with good nose tackles.

        I don't think Paradis bad by any means, but I'm thinking of a Nick Mangold type, where you plug him in and he makes every line call (almost always correctly) and is great at all things for 10+ years.

        I'm also not sure that I would be willing to pay Paradis what the market will say he's worth because he's a good but not great player, but the market will probably dictate he's the highest paid centre in the game.

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        • #5
          If we had a good coaching staff that actually designed the O and D to the strength of the players we have, this team could go deep into the playoffs.
          :lombardi:2019 Adopt-A-Bronco: Dr. Dre'Mont Jones
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          • #6
            A good coach and QB combo will hide a lot of issues. This roster is not that far off from being a legit contender, imo.

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            • #7
              Coaching is our biggest problen, IMO. We need to replace the head coach & all of his assistance coaches.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                I don't really buy what you're saying. People always assume you need to fill every single hole with an all-pro in order to be a contender. But the truth is often filling one hole has ripple effects and covers for other holes. If you can get a good player in the draft and the guy next to him plays average you've improved two spots. Scheme can also help cover holes, just as it can create holes. As an example, the Broncos defensive scheme is a big reason they have trouble covering TEs.

                The two holes the Broncos absolutely have to fill are QB and coaching staff. After that I think they need an anchor lineman at C, and 1 more lineman. defensively they need help at LBx 2 (in a regular 4-3) and another corner. The first two need to be the biggest priorities of the offseason.

                But I don't buy the "years away from being a contender" especially in the NFL where teams routinely go from worst to first.
                thees a difference between being able to have a hot year where you get lucky and have a chance to win ther super bowl(denver 2015 or jag 2018) they are teams that have talent but they where super hot and there defense looked great. if a few balls bounce there way they are super bowl champions or damn close. and building an actual dynasty that contender for super bowls for 5-10 years. i want to see the second. the first is always fun.

                also i don't necessarily think we need elite talent. i am also not sold we need 2 lbers. i think jewel can develope to a good robin guy to a bat man. or a good run stuffer to pass coverage guy. i just feel like we have a bunch of the same types of LBers which don't compliment each other. i think if we get a speed guy in davis and jewel looks a ton better. expecially a LB with coverage ability.


                but we for sure need an upgrade and the top o-line normally take a good year to assemble, or potentially 2 years to get. most involve 1 or 2 first rounder.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
                  thees a difference between being able to have a hot year where you get lucky and have a chance to win ther super bowl(denver 2015 or jag 2018) they are teams that have talent but they where super hot and there defense looked great. if a few balls bounce there way they are super bowl champions or damn close. and building an actual dynasty that contender for super bowls for 5-10 years. i want to see the second. the first is always fun.

                  also i don't necessarily think we need elite talent. i am also not sold we need 2 lbers. i think jewel can develope to a good robin guy to a bat man. or a good run stuffer to pass coverage guy. i just feel like we have a bunch of the same types of LBers which don't compliment each other. i think if we get a speed guy in davis and jewel looks a ton better. expecially a LB with coverage ability.


                  but we for sure need an upgrade and the top o-line normally take a good year to assemble, or potentially 2 years to get. most involve 1 or 2 first rounder.
                  I think you're overestimating it. Teams rebound quickly in the NFL. Look at the Rams, they were one of the worst teams in the NFL in 2016 and had by far the worst offense in the league that year, in 2017 they're a good team with a top 5 offense. The Bears this year, that's a solid team that had an offense in shambles after last season.

                  The offensive line needs some work, but scheme and coaching can do a lot. You build an offense based on quick passes, and running the ball, then use play action to go further down field. Or you use more max protection passes etc.

                  The defensive needs 2 LBs in order to go to the proper 4-3 they should be running with the current personnel. You may not have both of them start, but you'll need at least 2 to account for proper depth. I know previously you've said you like the 3-4, and I'd be okay with that to, but it needs to be a proper 3-4 defense, with 4 backers at depth often, and 3 defensive lineman playing 2 gap principles, not the current 40 under they run which takes the Sam backer and commits him fully to stopping the run (in base) and makes the Will and Mike go further in pass coverage against backs and TEs, which is a massive flaw in it's design.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                    I think you're overestimating it. Teams rebound quickly in the NFL. Look at the Rams, they were one of the worst teams in the NFL in 2016 and had by far the worst offense in the league that year, in 2017 they're a good team with a top 5 offense. The Bears this year, that's a solid team that had an offense in shambles after last season.

                    The offensive line needs some work, but scheme and coaching can do a lot. You build an offense based on quick passes, and running the ball, then use play action to go further down field. Or you use more max protection passes etc.

                    The defensive needs 2 LBs in order to go to the proper 4-3 they should be running with the current personnel. You may not have both of them start, but you'll need at least 2 to account for proper depth. I know previously you've said you like the 3-4, and I'd be okay with that to, but it needs to be a proper 3-4 defense, with 4 backers at depth often, and 3 defensive lineman playing 2 gap principles, not the current 40 under they run which takes the Sam backer and commits him fully to stopping the run (in base) and makes the Will and Mike go further in pass coverage against backs and TEs, which is a massive flaw in it's design.
                    if we go to a proper 3-4 we need more like 4-5 LBs. because only Davis and Jewel seems keepers miller and chubb would move to starting defensive ends. and we would for sure need 2 starters in a 4-3 it will be more clear once our coaching issues are sloved.
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                    • #11
                      NFL changes way too much year to year to say they're years away from contending. There's always teams no one sees coming that surprises everyone.

                      Looking at 5 of Denver's losses, they gave up 23, 27 (to KC with everyone), 20, 17, 19. With better coaching/QB play, Denver's easily a playoff team right now. I agree with Butler on Paradis, i wouldnt pay him the money he's gonna command. Good player but he's nearly 30 already and has had multiple surgeries. McGovern has done ok at C, but the other G spots are bigger issues.

                      The biggest issues are coaching and QB, thats what is holding back Denver most.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                        I don't really buy what you're saying. People always assume you need to fill every single hole with an all-pro in order to be a contender. But the truth is often filling one hole has ripple effects and covers for other holes. If you can get a good player in the draft and the guy next to him plays average you've improved two spots. Scheme can also help cover holes, just as it can create holes. As an example, the Broncos defensive scheme is a big reason they have trouble covering TEs.

                        The two holes the Broncos absolutely have to fill are QB and coaching staff. After that I think they need an anchor lineman at C, and 1 more lineman. defensively they need help at LBx 2 (in a regular 4-3) and another corner. The first two need to be the biggest priorities of the offseason.

                        But I don't buy the "years away from being a contender" especially in the NFL where teams routinely go from worst to first.
                        Unfortunately I have to disagree with you here.

                        ILB- We are just too small and too slow at this position group. Look at who is in our division and the types of plays which have eaten us alive this season and the past 2-3 seasons. Short to mid passes in the middle to either TE's, RB's or slot guys and they take their catch for 10+ with YAC and YAFC.

                        Safety- We seem to be in a tough spot there. We are missing a guy who can go sideline to sideline and simply cover ground. We also see Simmons miss at least 2-5 tackles a game it seems and he seemingly always makes one play a game where you say "WOW that was bad.". In SImmon's defense he also usually has 1-2 plays where you say "Nice one!" the fact remains that in order for a risk reward player like that to pan out the reward needs to outweigh the risk.

                        LT- I know we just drafted Bolles but we need to do better here. The left side of our line is not "beefy" and I need to double-check but I do not think running on that side of the line has been particularly effective this season. The other issue and I know this has been harped on a lot is Penalties. They are killing us. There is a large part of me which thinks that Bolles would potentially do better if he didn't need to try and move and think as quickly as a LT needs to at the NFL level. With Leary in a bad spot (I question if he'll be back) I think Bolles may be well suited to move to the LG spot.

                        CB- last but not least a #1 CB. We simply don't have one. Harris can be considered one but that really is not where he plays best. We need a guy who is in the 6ft1 range who can cover man-to-man when needed. The issue here is that as the OP mentioned a true LT and a true #1 CB are either really expensive in FA or they are traditionally high to mid-high 1st round picks. With only one 1st round pick I think we will be in a tough spot to fill both our OL & CB needs properly.

                        In short I see 2-3 of those positions as issues as generally speaking FA's are pricey and typically (not always) those positions in the draft have the largest drop-off between top 1-2 and the rest.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                          He is by PFF, but I just don't see it when I watch him play. He's good at getting to the second level on a zone run, but isn't a good fit for a power scheme, and can struggle with good nose tackles.

                          I don't think Paradis bad by any means, but I'm thinking of a Nick Mangold type, where you plug him in and he makes every line call (almost always correctly) and is great at all things for 10+ years.

                          I'm also not sure that I would be willing to pay Paradis what the market will say he's worth because he's a good but not great player, but the market will probably dictate he's the highest paid centre in the game.
                          Could not agree more with this. There also seems to be 2-3 plays a game and at least nearly one full game where he just gets SLAUGHTERED. If I am not mistaken he is a smaller guy (in general) so it stands to reason that when a truly great NT goes up against him or when a NT and a DE push him that he'd struggle.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
                            Unfortunately I have to disagree with you here.

                            ILB- We are just too small and too slow at this position group. Look at who is in our division and the types of plays which have eaten us alive this season and the past 2-3 seasons. Short to mid passes in the middle to either TE's, RB's or slot guys and they take their catch for 10+ with YAC and YAFC.

                            Safety- We seem to be in a tough spot there. We are missing a guy who can go sideline to sideline and simply cover ground. We also see Simmons miss at least 2-5 tackles a game it seems and he seemingly always makes one play a game where you say "WOW that was bad.". In SImmon's defense he also usually has 1-2 plays where you say "Nice one!" the fact remains that in order for a risk reward player like that to pan out the reward needs to outweigh the risk.

                            LT- I know we just drafted Bolles but we need to do better here. The left side of our line is not "beefy" and I need to double-check but I do not think running on that side of the line has been particularly effective this season. The other issue and I know this has been harped on a lot is Penalties. They are killing us. There is a large part of me which thinks that Bolles would potentially do better if he didn't need to try and move and think as quickly as a LT needs to at the NFL level. With Leary in a bad spot (I question if he'll be back) I think Bolles may be well suited to move to the LG spot.

                            CB- last but not least a #1 CB. We simply don't have one. Harris can be considered one but that really is not where he plays best. We need a guy who is in the 6ft1 range who can cover man-to-man when needed. The issue here is that as the OP mentioned a true LT and a true #1 CB are either really expensive in FA or they are traditionally high to mid-high 1st round picks. With only one 1st round pick I think we will be in a tough spot to fill both our OL & CB needs properly.

                            In short I see 2-3 of those positions as issues as generally speaking FA's are pricey and typically (not always) those positions in the draft have the largest drop-off between top 1-2 and the rest.
                            I’ve been toying with this idea in my head that we may already have that big CB and that rangy Safety. I believe that with a good DB coach Simmons could be a pretty good CB to cover bigger WRs. Roby definitely would improve our range at S but I question his discipline to not bite when QBs try to manipulate him.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
                              Unfortunately I have to disagree with you here.

                              ILB- We are just too small and too slow at this position group. Look at who is in our division and the types of plays which have eaten us alive this season and the past 2-3 seasons. Short to mid passes in the middle to either TE's, RB's or slot guys and they take their catch for 10+ with YAC and YAFC.

                              Safety- We seem to be in a tough spot there. We are missing a guy who can go sideline to sideline and simply cover ground. We also see Simmons miss at least 2-5 tackles a game it seems and he seemingly always makes one play a game where you say "WOW that was bad.". In SImmon's defense he also usually has 1-2 plays where you say "Nice one!" the fact remains that in order for a risk reward player like that to pan out the reward needs to outweigh the risk.

                              LT- I know we just drafted Bolles but we need to do better here. The left side of our line is not "beefy" and I need to double-check but I do not think running on that side of the line has been particularly effective this season. The other issue and I know this has been harped on a lot is Penalties. They are killing us. There is a large part of me which thinks that Bolles would potentially do better if he didn't need to try and move and think as quickly as a LT needs to at the NFL level. With Leary in a bad spot (I question if he'll be back) I think Bolles may be well suited to move to the LG spot.

                              CB- last but not least a #1 CB. We simply don't have one. Harris can be considered one but that really is not where he plays best. We need a guy who is in the 6ft1 range who can cover man-to-man when needed. The issue here is that as the OP mentioned a true LT and a true #1 CB are either really expensive in FA or they are traditionally high to mid-high 1st round picks. With only one 1st round pick I think we will be in a tough spot to fill both our OL & CB needs properly.

                              In short I see 2-3 of those positions as issues as generally speaking FA's are pricey and typically (not always) those positions in the draft have the largest drop-off between top 1-2 and the rest.
                              i actually like simmons, i feel he is having to do to much to deal with our CB situation. but he has the atheletic ability to be a sideline to sideline deep safety. if we are missing a safety i feel it is more of a bigger TE coverage guy who can do things close to the line against the run or cover TE on the side.

                              i am also not sold we just need to a LT, i haven't been sold on really any play of the line. and veldheer is good maybe for a year or 2
                              Last edited by Kyousukeneko; 12-19-2018, 01:15 PM.
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