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  • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Keep in mind, the top-10 earning corners in the league all signed their deals before they were 28.

    Broncos currently sit at $11,742,518 and need to sign the 2019 draft class.

    Which players would you cut/release to make room for making Harris the top paid CB in the league? Also, how would you structure the contract to stay under the cap?

    These are the things Elway has to figure out. It’s not necessarily something he can accomplish within a few days after the draft.
    How does it get done? Through compromise. Part of why I continue to harp on the stance Elway has taken. They need Harris to come off that $15m mark. Negotiations should have been started and IMO completed before the draft even occurred. Both sides digging in their heels to prove an ego driven point benefits no one, especially a Broncos team trying to find an identity and get back to winning ways.

    But it didn't happen. So now the Broncos have to negotiate with a player who feels slighted. Both by the signing of a lesser talent for more money and in Elway's unnecessary comments in the press. Leading to Harris taking a hard line stance and stating "fine, pay me the max of $15m or trade me then". At this point he likely has agents, peers and family in his ear talking about lack of respect and being underpaid. There is a human side to this. Back a proud man into a corner and he will likely come out fighting. Why did this need to happen?

    Look at the contracts of the other players. Most you are describing were 5yr/ $60-70m type contracts. Ending when they are 32/33 years old. Same as Harris would be with a 3 yr deal. Similar to Jackson's. Hopefully there is a possibility to sign Harris for a 3yr/$39M type contract. Can they find that middle ground?

    Why are they cutting anyone? If I am understanding the cap rules correctly, Broncos can convert a lump of the money into a signing bonus. Creating more cap this year. Actually providing some extra cap room flexibility for signings this season. Compare to Pats/Gilmore restructure this March. Working with the player before the draft to benefit both sides. Novel concept.

    Please correct me if I am wrong on this potential option. I am not a cap guru. Perhaps there are rules against doing this in regards to Harris/Broncos situation.

    I'm biased, I just want Harris to be on this team this year. Losing him creates a void I doubt they can fill successfully. Comes back to expectations. Are the Broncos focused on winning or rebuilding. With one Harris is critical, the other go ahead and trade him for a future pick and save the money. But if they choose that route be bold and commit to a rebuild with other decisions and players too.

    Comment


    • I would talk to him about an extension. Since we are obviously tight on cash this year and him under contract for one year, front load the extension big time so he is walking into nearly 20 million next year because if everything goes well and as planned, Wolfe is out of our cap, Leary is definitely cut or tradeable in his last year...and Flacco is straight cuttable for no penalty if he doesn't play well. The only thing is somehow getting him to sign an extension that pays him the same this year but getting overpaid next year. Once again we would be asking him for a team friendly deal...but I think we might have spurned him from this idea.
      New England Patriots GM

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      • If looking at next year, how much of the $21m in dead cap money comes off the books too?

        $8.2m just in the Keenum/ Lynch decisions. But a few million each tied up in Watson, DT and Marshall decisions too.

        There are creative ways to work the cap if the will is there.

        We will see how willing both sides are willing to negotiate, restructure or dig their heels in soon I hope. This can work out for both sides if they allow it.

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        • Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
          How does it get done? Through compromise. Part of why I continue to harp on the stance Elway has taken. They need Harris to come off that $15m mark. Negotiations should have been started and IMO completed before the draft even occurred. Both sides digging in their heels to prove an ego driven point benefits no one, especially a Broncos team trying to find an identity and get back to winning ways.

          But it didn't happen. So now the Broncos have to negotiate with a player who feels slighted. Both by the signing of a lesser talent for more money and in Elway's unnecessary comments in the press. Leading to Harris taking a hard line stance and stating "fine, pay me the max of $15m or trade me then". At this point he likely has agents, peers and family in his ear talking about lack of respect and being underpaid. There is a human side to this. Back a proud man into a corner and he will likely come out fighting. Why did this need to happen?

          Look at the contracts of the other players. Most you are describing were 5yr/ $60-70m type contracts. Ending when they are 32/33 years old. Same as Harris would be with a 3 yr deal. Similar to Jackson's. Hopefully there is a possibility to sign Harris for a 3yr/$39M type contract. Can they find that middle ground?

          Why are they cutting anyone? If I am understanding the cap rules correctly, Broncos can convert a lump of the money into a signing bonus. Creating more cap this year. Actually providing some extra cap room flexibility for signings this season. Compare to Pats/Gilmore restructure this March. Working with the player before the draft to benefit both sides. Novel concept.

          Please correct me if I am wrong on this potential option. I am not a cap guru. Perhaps there are rules against doing this in regards to Harris/Broncos situation.

          I'm biased, I just want Harris to be on this team this year. Losing him creates a void I doubt they can fill successfully. Comes back to expectations. Are the Broncos focused on winning or rebuilding. With one Harris is critical, the other go ahead and trade him for a future pick and save the money. But if they choose that route be bold and commit to a rebuild with other decisions and players too.
          Elway has already worked the phone talking with other teams about a trade (per James Palmer). There was interest in a trade, probably not enough value for the Broncos to make the trade. Another possibility is that other teams aren’t willing to offer higher value knowing they’ll be faced with signing Harris to a restructured deal (with his demand at $15 million per year).

          In addition to limited cap space maybe there is another issue in play? From observations of how Harris treats other players on the field, it’s possible Elway sees him as a negative to team chemistry. While he is a very good player have you noticed how often he points the finger at other players? I don’t know how often other players in the secondary were at fault for breakdowns in coverage but Harris rails on his teammates. From the way he reacts he was never at fault. Maybe he isn’t the leader many believe him to be?

          As far as paying a large signing bonus up front - that can help with this season but signing bonuses are typically spread throughout the life of the contract. If player is released, the team must pay him the rest of the bonus he is due.

          In terms of Elway’s comments, maybe Harris would be better served to ask for an extension instead of demanding “pay or trade me” via Twitter. Maybe Harris would be served better by not pouting via Instagram baby picture.

          He is a whiner.....

          Comment


          • There have been no twitter links to Harris saying that. So far it’s hearsay. The only thing he’s said publicly is he wants to retire a Bronco and the talks aren’t dead.
            sigpic
            Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
              There have been no twitter links to Harris saying that. So far it’s hearsay. The only thing he’s said publicly is he wants to retire a Bronco and the talks aren’t dead.
              Nothing stating that officially but he has retweeted a bunch of stuff from PFF calling him a top 3-5 CB by their metrics. 15 mil may just be agent speak as a starting point, but I’d say he definitely wants to be paid in the top 5.

              Even then it wouldn’t be too hard to get to that 15 mil or damn close to it. He already has an 8.5 mil cap hit, we’d likely have less of an emergency fund depending on who we cut going into the final 53 but we can definitely afford the extra 6.5 without giving him extra in the other years of the contract. Although we could still put more money into the other years and guarantee it and he could stay at his current cap hit. This situation will drag out because as Champ Bailey said Elway won’t pay until he has to. This may drag out until we get down to the final 53 as some big name CBs are on the roster bubble e.g. Janoris Jenkins.

              Comment


              • Pay CHJ more than what was Paid for Kareem Jackson then our Secondary will be set for this year and I think with Bradley Chubb coming off a 14 Rookie Sack Season and Von Miller wanting to get 20 plus this Defense could be special indeed !

                Comment


                • This is kinda a hard situation, on one hand it would be great to sign him, but with last years injury, he could have a problematic bad wheel going forward? He wants a lot of loot, just like a used car, once it starts breaking down, it could be one thing after another? That old saying "putting Good money after bad"?
                  (JMO)

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                  • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post

                    In addition to limited cap space maybe there is another issue in play? From observations of how Harris treats other players on the field, it’s possible Elway sees him as a negative to team chemistry. While he is a very good player have you noticed how often he points the finger at other players? I don’t know how often other players in the secondary were at fault for breakdowns in coverage but Harris rails on his teammates. From the way he reacts he was never at fault. Maybe he isn’t the leader many believe him to be?
                    .
                    So Harris shouldn’t hold his teammates accountable for not doing their job? If you watch the all 22 film our safeties do some wonky things in coverage. The fact is Harris has more interceptions than TDs allowed one of only 9 CBs. Only twice has he allowed 100 or more receiving yards. Harris doesn’t do all that by being the most physically gifted CB, he accomplishes these things through film prep and knowing his assignments as well as everyone else’s in the secondary. So when he’s railing on these guys for being out of position he’s holding them accountable just like Peyton used to do to his WRs and olinemen.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Capt. Jack View Post
                      This is kinda a hard situation, on one hand it would be great to sign him, but with last years injury, he could have a problematic bad wheel going forward? He wants a lot of loot, just like a used car, once it starts breaking down, it could be one thing after another? That old saying "putting Good money after bad"?
                      (JMO)
                      Possibly but he came back to play in the Pro Bowl where it was raining and looked like he always does. Injuries happen but he doesn’t get hurt often and when he does he heals fast and the injury doesn’t linger in his mind.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DENVERSB50CHAMP View Post
                        Pay CHJ more than what was Paid for Kareem Jackson then our Secondary will be set for this year and I think with Bradley Chubb coming off a 14 Rookie Sack Season and Von Miller wanting to get 20 plus this Defense could be special indeed !
                        Is Chris Harris a shutdown Corner a DC can put on the opponent's best receiver in man coverage? Is Chris Harris in his best spot covering an off receiver? Is Chris Harris as versatile as Kareem Jackson? Is there much difference in their production and value to the team that one should be paid significantly more than the other? These are some of the questions that come to mind when considering Chris' contract situation. I hope things can be worked out amicably. It is best that these negotiations not be played out publicly. He is under contract this year, and hasn't missed any mandatory activities yet. We shall see.
                        "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

                        Comment


                        • The trade of picks for a non guaranteed Watson contract may be a source of money for Harris. I think JE has been working on it. That trade makes sense in that it may be 2 million to give Harris on top of maybe 3 we could have already used. Cutting Watson really means we could move Harris up to about 12 or 13. That's a fair deal imo.
                          2016 GM for the Buffalo Bills.

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                          • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
                            So Harris shouldn’t hold his teammates accountable for not doing their job? If you watch the all 22 film our safeties do some wonky things in coverage. The fact is Harris has more interceptions than TDs allowed one of only 9 CBs. Only twice has he allowed 100 or more receiving yards. Harris doesn’t do all that by being the most physically gifted CB, he accomplishes these things through film prep and knowing his assignments as well as everyone else’s in the secondary. So when he’s railing on these guys for being out of position he’s holding them accountable just like Peyton used to do to his WRs and olinemen.
                            Railing on another player, pointing your finger and throwing a tantrum doesn’t necessarily drive accountability. When Chris Harris Jr. was a younger player, did other players treat him the same way when he made mistakes? Or does he not remember making mistakes? Has he never made a mistake on the field? I don’t recall other players treating him the same way. In general his type of approach causes a negative reaction.

                            I don’t question his talent. Some people are exceptional with respect to individual skills and can be detrimental to the chemistry of an organization, in this case a football team.

                            Harris’ one year contract 2014 was $2,187,000. When he signed his next contract he received $24,000,000 in guaranteed money. He will have earned $42.5 million if he plays this season. Let’s not forget that he signed the contract - he agreed to the terms of the contract put in front of him. Now that the market has ticked up in price, he’s literally throwing a tantrum and blaming Elway for not paying him.

                            How about taking a different approach? Instead of tweeting his demands, how about asking Elway for a meeting to discuss the contract. I would imagine his agent could make that happen. If not then maybe his agent isn’t doing his job.

                            Several years ago I figured out that I was not being compensated commensurate with my results. I approached the VP of our group and asked if we could meet to discuss my performance. Less than a minute into the conversation he interrupted and said, “I appreciate you bringing this up - I’ll take care of it.” Within a week I received a message from HR with a new compensation offer.

                            At the time we had just rolled out a social media platform for the entire company - can you imagine what would have happened if I posted the nonsensical demand to the entire company like Chris Harris Jr?

                            Chris Harris Jr. is a very good player but he needs to learn the right way to approach John Elway.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                              Railing on another player, pointing your finger and throwing a tantrum doesn’t necessarily drive accountability. When Chris Harris Jr. was a younger player, did other players treat him the same way when he made mistakes? Or does he not remember making mistakes? Has he never made a mistake on the field? I don’t recall other players treating him the same way. In general his type of approach causes a negative reaction.

                              I don’t question his talent. Some people are exceptional with respect to individual skills and can be detrimental to the chemistry of an organization, in this case a football team.

                              Harris’ one year contract 2014 was $2,187,000. When he signed his next contract he received $24,000,000 in guaranteed money. He will have earned $42.5 million if he plays this season. Let’s not forget that he signed the contract - he agreed to the terms of the contract put in front of him. Now that the market has ticked up in price, he’s literally throwing a tantrum and blaming Elway for not paying him.

                              How about taking a different approach? Instead of tweeting his demands, how about asking Elway for a meeting to discuss the contract. I would imagine his agent could make that happen. If not then maybe his agent isn’t doing his job.

                              Several years ago I figured out that I was not being compensated commensurate with my results. I approached the VP of our group and asked if we could meet to discuss my performance. Less than a minute into the conversation he interrupted and said, “I appreciate you bringing this up - I’ll take care of it.” Within a week I received a message from HR with a new compensation offer.

                              At the time we had just rolled out a social media platform for the entire company - can you imagine what would have happened if I posted the nonsensical demand to the entire company like Chris Harris Jr?

                              Chris Harris Jr. is a very good player but he needs to learn the right way to approach John Elway.
                              Why is it a negative when Chris Harris does but when Manning did it or when Brady does or hell when Roethlisberger does it, it’s considered them being leaders and holding their guys accountable? Despite the fact that Roethlisberger severely fractured his relationship with his best receiver due to it, only now is he receiving light criticism from it. Would Chris Harris being doing that if he had Earl Thomas back there? No because Thomas would be in the right place. I haven’t heard any of our coaches or safeties complain about him doing this, and that’s probably because they know they messed up and that Harris is coming from a perspective of trying to get them on the same page so they play better. And on the flip side, that’s all we see is what happens on Sunday, throughout the week he could be pulling them aside and coaching them up in a different tone. I’m not going to fault the guy for being passionate about the game.

                              How do we know he didn’t take a different approach at first with Elway? At the end of the season he said he wanted to retire a Bronco when asked about his contract. More than likely he brought it up when they sit down and talk to the players at the end of the season and hasn’t liked the direction everything has taken since then. And even though he tweeted “Pay me or trade me” he never said he wouldn’t honor his contract. Everyone knows he’s playing this season, he has no real leverage here and is doing what he can to get a new deal so he can retire a Bronco but at the same time, Earl Thomas came to play this season and broke his leg so I don’t blame him for trying to get a new deal before the season to avoid a situation like that. The squeaky wheel gets the grease as they say. This deal will get done unless someone blows us away with a trade offer, Elway is just going to take his time and frustrate the hell out of Harris and the fan base just like he did with Von Miller.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
                                Why is it a negative when Chris Harris does but when Manning did it or when Brady does or hell when Roethlisberger does it, it’s considered them being leaders and holding their guys accountable? Despite the fact that Roethlisberger severely fractured his relationship with his best receiver due to it, only now is he receiving light criticism from it. Would Chris Harris being doing that if he had Earl Thomas back there? No because Thomas would be in the right place. I haven’t heard any of our coaches or safeties complain about him doing this, and that’s probably because they know they messed up and that Harris is coming from a perspective of trying to get them on the same page so they play better. And on the flip side, that’s all we see is what happens on Sunday, throughout the week he could be pulling them aside and coaching them up in a different tone. I’m not going to fault the guy for being passionate about the game.

                                How do we know he didn’t take a different approach at first with Elway? At the end of the season he said he wanted to retire a Bronco when asked about his contract. More than likely he brought it up when they sit down and talk to the players at the end of the season and hasn’t liked the direction everything has taken since then. And even though he tweeted “Pay me or trade me” he never said he wouldn’t honor his contract. Everyone knows he’s playing this season, he has no real leverage here and is doing what he can to get a new deal so he can retire a Bronco but at the same time, Earl Thomas came to play this season and broke his leg so I don’t blame him for trying to get a new deal before the season to avoid a situation like that. The squeaky wheel gets the grease as they say. This deal will get done unless someone blows us away with a trade offer, Elway is just going to take his time and frustrate the hell out of Harris and the fan base just like he did with Von Miller.
                                Being passionate doesn’t justify berating a teammate. As far as Manning and Brady, Harris hasn’t come close to playing half the number of games they’ve played at a high level. They’ve been responsible for winning or losing for every game. They’ve taken far more criticism from fans and the media for their mistakes than Harris will ever hear. We’ve seen them be critical of players on the field however, I don’t recall them berating players in the same manner as Harris.

                                As far as Harris approaching Elway the only things we can go by are reports from the media. Saying he wants to retire with the Broncos is something players often say about the team they play for. If he really meant what he said, why so quick to tweet his demands to the public? Besides it’s a general statement and not specific with respect to a contract negotiation.

                                The fact that other teams aren’t offering enough to persuade Elway to trade him says a lot.

                                I hope Elway and Harris can come to an agreement. He’s a very good player. At the same time he’s not going to get $15 million per year with a $60 million contract. There are always two sides to the story. We’ll see what happens.
                                Last edited by Fantaztic7; 05-02-2019, 07:48 PM.

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