What do you give up

[DENVERSB50CHAMP]

Nothing. Denver needs to draft O-LINE the entire draft. Denver can land Robbie Thompson who is already Pro-Ready in FA and just Draft O-Line.

[JW7]

Nothing, not sure if you even take him if he's there at 15. Plenty of WR talent in this draft. I wouldn't be upset at all if he was the choice but I wouldn't trade up to get him.

[Kyousukeneko]

I agree with your assessment of Clowney to a point. I think he was not utilized properly in the Texans system; either that or he wasn't motivated to perform. If you look at what he is doing in Seattle right now, the case can be made for his high draft status.

He had 3 sacks in 11 games. He has not proven to be an elite pass rusher. He takes to many games or plays off. We don't need or want him in denver he is down grade as an edge rusher compared to what we have.

[darryn16]

Yep. Remember Clowney climbed to first overall pick because of one hit in one meaningless bowl game. And if you look back at his career, he's good but not nearly good enough to be the first overall pick. But man did the Michigan RB's helmet pop off...

As for Jeudy, I would not trade up for him. It's a deep draft at receiver and I don't think it's the biggest need on O.

I agree with your assessment of Clowney to a point. I think he was not utilized properly in the Texans system; either that or he wasn't motivated to perform. If you look at what he is doing in Seattle right now, the case can be made for his high draft status.

[johnlimburg]

I would say that we have no idea if this firing today has anything to do with a coach who was unqualified or if it was them replacing a coach who was connected with the previous OC in order to bring in a coach who's linked to the new OC. Rumor is if he doesn't remain OC in New York that Mike Shula will be here as the new QB coach. Since he's spent the last two seasons with Shurmur and knows the offense it seems like a logical move, especially since he'll spend a lot of time teaching the offense. Just like the last QB coach spent the previous 2 seasons and 2014 working in the exact offensive system that Scangarello was bringing to Denver.

But I would tend to lean towards a guy who's coached 4 seasons in the NFL (5 now) and 4 seasons in college is probably qualified to be a position coach in the NFL and it being a matter of bringing in someone who knows the system and terminology rather than your belief that he had no qualifications.

I would say you are right and strongly agree if the move for Shula was a sure thing and already lined up, but as you say it isn't. It is a what if as of right now. I believe if there was any sort of trust in McCartney from within the organisation, whether it be from the head coach, general manager, a senior offensive staff member like Munchak, or the new incoming guy in Shurmur, they would have waited. You can have a preferred guy who you plan to target if he becomes available, but you don't fire someone you potentially like until that other guy actually becomes available. Pretty much exactly what happened with Fangio keeping Scangarello until a guy he liked became available. He didn't just fire Scangarello and hope someone became available, it was a reactive move, the McCartney one was not.

[Butler By'Note]

Just a little circle back to this thread a week or so later, and the two coaches we were discussing, Scangarello and McCartney, both have been fired. So, now would you say coaches who had thin resumes, and were fired after one season were more than likely unqualified for the job ? Smart move by Elway and Fangio going and adding a veteran coach to work with the most important investment they have, Lock.

I would say that we have no idea if this firing today has anything to do with a coach who was unqualified or if it was them replacing a coach who was connected with the previous OC in order to bring in a coach who's linked to the new OC. Rumor is if he doesn't remain OC in New York that Mike Shula will be here as the new QB coach. Since he's spent the last two seasons with Shurmur and knows the offense it seems like a logical move, especially since he'll spend a lot of time teaching the offense. Just like the last QB coach spent the previous 2 seasons and 2014 working in the exact offensive system that Scangarello was bringing to Denver.

But I would tend to lean towards a guy who's coached 4 seasons in the NFL (5 now) and 4 seasons in college is probably qualified to be a position coach in the NFL and it being a matter of bringing in someone who knows the system and terminology rather than your belief that he had no qualifications.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I've got $9 in cash and a generic gift card with about $30 left on it in my pocket..... that's it. That's all I'm willing to offer to move up. Nothing else.

I wouldn’t do that either. There’s too much talent at WR in this draft to move up.

[sra84]

I've got $9 in cash and a generic gift card with about $30 left on it in my pocket..... that's it. That's all I'm willing to offer to move up. Nothing else.

[johnlimburg]

Just a little circle back to this thread a week or so later, and the two coaches we were discussing, Scangarello and McCartney, both have been fired. So, now would you say coaches who had thin resumes, and were fired after one season were more than likely unqualified for the job ? Smart move by Elway and Fangio going and adding a veteran coach to work with the most important investment they have, Lock.

[KWHIT97]

We need a LT, plain and simple!

[Kyousukeneko]

Who ? And Nick Mullens got Scrangerello the job ? I hope not. I think it was more the Shanahan connection and hope that he could bring some of that energy to Denver.

JT Daniels is all I know off the top of my head. But Scrangerello was a big part in the niners drafting Mullins. He liked Mullins and Mullins is gonna be interesting to watch he impressed when he was forced into action as a rookie. Scrangerello was a big reason why Mullins is in san fran.

It takes time to learn things like being an nfl hc or oc. We will see if he improves this year. If not I hope we try to contact Joe Brady.

[johnlimburg]

He has coached nfl qbs in college. Alot of them where back ups in the NFL but good college qbs. He also was the one behind the Nick Mullens pick in sf which looks to be at least a good back up for them. I don't know I feel you are understating him a little and he probably is in the nfl with out Shanahan now is he an oc who knows. He still has alot of improvement to get and was over his head year 1. Year 2 better be better or we will be in the market for a new OC maybe joe Brady from lsu

Who ? And Nick Mullens got Scrangerello the job ? I hope not. I think it was more the Shanahan connection and hope that he could bring some of that energy to Denver.

[Kyousukeneko]

Doubt who has no experience at all ? Scrangerello ? He has some lower level college experience as an offensive coordinator, but he hasn't gotten any experience at a successful college program calling plays, he hadn't called games in the NFL before this year, and I don't see any amazing development stories from him as a position coach to warrant the promotion to offensive coordinator. I also think this was clearly backed up this year with the product he put on the field. But hey, he was working under Shanahan, so say a prayer and hope I guess. Kind of like hoping Vance, Mr. Unqualified getting the head coaching job here.

He has coached nfl qbs in college. Alot of them where back ups in the NFL but good college qbs. He also was the one behind the Nick Mullens pick in sf which looks to be at least a good back up for them. I don't know I feel you are understating him a little and he probably is in the nfl with out Shanahan now is he an oc who knows. He still has alot of improvement to get and was over his head year 1. Year 2 better be better or we will be in the market for a new OC maybe joe Brady from lsu

[johnlimburg]

I don't know teaching has always come naturally and coaches should have had at least high school coaching where as a dc you have to coach about anything. I doubt he has no experience at all.

Doubt who has no experience at all ? Scrangerello ? He has some lower level college experience as an offensive coordinator, but he hasn't gotten any experience at a successful college program calling plays, he hadn't called games in the NFL before this year, and I don't see any amazing development stories from him as a position coach to warrant the promotion to offensive coordinator. I also think this was clearly backed up this year with the product he put on the field. But hey, he was working under Shanahan, so say a prayer and hope I guess. Kind of like hoping Vance, Mr. Unqualified getting the head coaching job here.

[Kyousukeneko]

I'll try to compare it to being a teacher. I was a student right, I watched teachers operate every day for 13 years of schooling, then 4 more years in college. If someone said to me before I was trained as a teacher, can you mentor a teacher because you have closely observed them for 17 years, I could of done it. But, do you think now having done the job for several years, if someone needed to be mentored, I could do a far better job due to the experience I have ? I think so.

Position coaches need that real life experience to draw on. A position coach like every role inside a football team requires a different skill set. These coaches work directly with the players, training them on how to improve in a specific role, you need experience to draw on that. I believe I have a pretty good understanding of football, others might disagree, but I put a lot of time into trying to understand the sport. But, I have never played the cornerback position, if someone said how do you improve, I would probably offer some basic level opinions, but I don't have the detailed knowledge to break down certain types of footwork, leverages to play specific routes, etc.

I think you can be an offensive coordinator, a defensive coordinator, a passing game coordinator, like our receivers coach was, head coach, etc. without any previous success as a player. But a position coach needs it, and our quarterback coach not only doesn't have it, but he also has zero resume as well. I don't understand surrounding your blue chip investment (Lock) with unqualified guys, but that is just me.

I don't know teaching has always come naturally and coaches should have had at least high school coaching where as a dc you have to coach about anything. I doubt he has no experience at all.