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Trade back and draft Laviska Shenault

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Gbt31 View Post
    I have mixed feelings about this, I still want us to draft Ruggs at 15 if he is there. But if not, I am still saying we need to go back to back WR. I would love for us to draft Ruggs and then trade up for another WR (not named Jalen Reagor) in the early second. If we go Ruggs I would love for us to trade up for Shenault or if Mims falls. But if we go Tackle, CB, LB in the first I would love for us to try and trade up for KJ Hamler, Mims or Shenault.
    Back to back WRs? Ain’t happening.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by atwaterandstir View Post
      In the role of a big slot WR, Shenault is going to thrive with a creative offensive coordinator. With Shurmur we can expect a lot more of that than previous years.

      There are many WRs I can see filling a role for us and I would be happy with a number of WRs, but Shenault can complete an offensive unit. There are a few teams I could see him landing with that could put those offenses onto another level- Broncos, Saints, Packers.

      Snatching up the Buffs best player has been working out for Matt Russell and Elway and I hope we continue to go to that well.

      Trade back, trade up- whatever it takes....let's just get this guy. Shurmur could go wild with a group of Lindsey, Gordon, Fant, Sutton and Shenault.
      Our weak redzone offense from years past will be long gone and honestly I think that is where we need the most help. Other WRs can help us move the chains, but Shenault and Gordon are the guys who are going to turn those FGs into TDs.
      I agree. Shenault needs an OC that will use him in creative ways for him to be the most effective. For some reason I can see him being drafted by the Ravens. When Isaiah Simmons was asked what position he plays, he said "Defense". I thought the same about Laviska and his position is "Offense".

      Anyone that thinks he's a 4.58 guy hasn't watched him play. He's a low 4.4 guy with Earl Campbell's thighs and if healthy would challenge Sutton for #1.

      About his dreadlocks...when he was about 10 he was in a car accident where his dad was killed. He hasn't cut his hair since as a tribute to his father. In high school he didn't play basketball because the coach would make him cut his hair and he wouldn't. Good for him and bad on the coach.

      Not to mention he's a great kid and you'll never have to worry about him off the field.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Gbt31 View Post
        I don't think Reagor is that good. He drops a lot of passes and I'm just not that impressed. I think Hamler is more of a playmaker and a player the opposing defense would have to account for on the field. I just don't see that with Reagor. Yeah, I get it, he improved his times at TCU Pro Day with some coaches with handhelds and dropped weight. So why didn't he have the weight already shredded for the actual biggest interview of his life?? Drops, poor preparation for interview...I'll pass. I think Hamler will be top 15 picks in second round. Just my opinion, but I think someone will move up for him.
        The drops are from him not looking the ball in, that’s an easy fix. When you have a guy that will outjump defenders to high point a ball and routinely catches the ball away from his body, their drops usually aren’t because of their hands. As for the weight he bilked up for the combine so he wouldn’t get the undersized label that comes with durability concerns. He probably isn’t a 4.2 guy like his pro day says but he’s definitely a low to mid 4.3 guy on tape. Sure he may drop a wide open slant because he looked up field too quickly but he’s going to come down with a post corner/sluggo/out and up/Dino routes because those “concentration” issues don’t show up when he’s deep down the field because he doesn’t have to try and turn those routes into a big gain.

        Hamler probably fits your idea of what Reagor is more than Reagor does. Hamler lets the ball get into his body far too often and doesn’t catch the ball well with contact around him because he lets the ball get to his body and lacks size to begin with. He dropped a ton of passes as well. Also at 5’9” there should be some legitimate concern about his value as a true deep threat because he isn’t just going to blow the doors off a CB like he could in college. Hamler will be best utilized as a short/intermediate in space type of guy. Reagor does have the potential to be a threat from everywhere on the field and his ability to high point the ball away from his body in traffic puts him ahead of Hamler.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by montee2ball View Post
          Back to back WRs? Ain’t happening.
          I agree. I would love it and it is fun to think about the possibilities but very unlikely first two picks are WR.

          But I do think the Broncos take two WRs in the draft. One more suited for slot, the other more of a perimeter threat. Depending on how the draft flows I could see back to back 3rds as a possibility. Or some combo of 2nd and 4th?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
            I agree. I would love it and it is fun to think about the possibilities but very unlikely first two picks are WR.

            But I do think the Broncos take two WRs in the draft. One more suited for slot, the other more of a perimeter threat. Depending on how the draft flows I could see back to back 3rds as a possibility. Or some combo of 2nd and 4th?
            We have to address some speed and versatility from the slot in this draft.

            I do wonder if Elway and Russell think a vet slot WR may be available after the draft. With the amount of guys entering the draft, there could be some tough veteren cuts if a team gets a WR they may not have expected.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by atwaterandstir View Post
              We have to address some speed and versatility from the slot in this draft.

              I do wonder if Elway and Russell think a vet slot WR may be available after the draft. With the amount of guys entering the draft, there could be some tough veteren cuts if a team gets a WR they may not have expected.
              Possibly. IMO the slot will be Jefferson.

              If the draft order goes as I expect and if the Broncos desire a starting quality WR the most likely would be Jefferson. Unless you go later rds and think Shenault, Hill or Hamler?

              Actually where he spent the majority of snaps this year from what I saw. Chase was the outside threat and Jefferson the slot.

              It will be interesting to see ho they approach the draft and remaining free agents. None of the remaining free agent WRs currently seem likely. As you state, that could change.

              As it stands I’d prefer that Jefferson pick then follow it up with a Pittman or Claypool. Too much?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
                I agree. I would love it and it is fun to think about the possibilities but very unlikely first two picks are WR.

                But I do think the Broncos take two WRs in the draft. One more suited for slot, the other more of a perimeter threat. Depending on how the draft flows I could see back to back 3rds as a possibility. Or some combo of 2nd and 4th?
                I totally agree. Some here think everything we type has to be exactly how things will happen, forgetting that any specific scenario they come up with is also unlikely to happen.

                For fun, I'd love to draft both Ruggs and Shenault. With a lineup of Ruggs, Shenault, Sutton, Fant and Gordon/Lindsay someone is going to have a mismatch and this would stress the D in all parts of the field. I know what Andy Reid would do.

                But of course we know it's a really long shot so we shouldn't talk about it and have any fun.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by atwaterandstir View Post
                  Shenault is an incredible player.
                  He is a 1st Rd talent who has the dreaded "injury concern" tag. While there is some truth to that label, there is also the reality that he has over 140 receptions and 40 carries accounting for 18 TDs over the past two years. That's the kind of production the healthiest guy would dream of.
                  11.6 yds per play from scrimmage over his 191 touches at Colorado. WOW

                  With the way Shurmur likes to get creative and get players the ball in space, Shenault is a perfect weapon.

                  We could move back slightly and mitigate the risk with the extra player we pick up. The type of move that could pay off for years to come. The Buffs have become an important arm of our draft and I personally think Elway loves hearing Shenault labeled as a "second tier" guy. I'm glad we met with him at the combine and if anyone knows this guys game it's our staff.

                  We need a weapon like Shenault....if not him it better be a guy that can catch 100 balls each season like Jeudy, Jefferson or guys like Pittman or Tyler Johnson (later).
                  Three surgeries in 18 months is a pretty big red flag. Seems like the ultimate in boom or bust picks. If he goes somewhere and succeeds everyone wonders why he wasn't picked early. If the Broncos pick him and he gets injured a lot, then people absolutely hammer Elway for taking a player with that injury history.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                    Three surgeries in 18 months is a pretty big red flag. Seems like the ultimate in boom or bust picks. If he goes somewhere and succeeds everyone wonders why he wasn't picked early. If the Broncos pick him and he gets injured a lot, then people absolutely hammer Elway for taking a player with that injury history.
                    And Stink had about 20 surgeries when we signed him as a FA. While surgeries are a legit concern, the type of surgery is also a factor and Shenault hasn't had major injuries in the sense they will affect his long term performance. He isn't Jake Butt in that sense. Shenault's surgeries are also a reason he'll be available later. If totally healthy he would have been drafted much higher.

                    As far as people hammering Elway, I won't be one of them and don't use hindsight and I doubt Elway makes decisions on what people will say.

                    One of the most explosive athletes in football when healthy, Shenault could have avoided this scenario by undergoing surgery last fall when he got hurt.

                    “As an agent we always have to ask, ‘Why didn’t you have the surgery?’ And he said … ‘Look, if I have an NFL career, God’s going to bless me with that, but I want to be here for my teammates. This is what I signed up to go to Colorado for,'” Bilbo recounted Thursday.

                    Shenault said at the combine that he never would have opted to cut short his season.

                    “I love the sport too much to just shut it down. And I just wanted to be a team player,” he said. “I love the sport too much, so I just had to keep playing and keep fighting through it and just produce as much as I could.”

                    https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/03/...receiver-grit/

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by lvbronx View Post
                      And Stink had about 20 surgeries when we signed him as a FA. While surgeries are a legit concern, the type of surgery is also a factor and Shenault hasn't had major injuries in the sense they will affect his long term performance. He isn't Jake Butt in that sense. Shenault's surgeries are also a reason he'll be available later. If totally healthy he would have been drafted much higher.

                      As far as people hammering Elway, I won't be one of them and don't use hindsight and I doubt Elway makes decisions on what people will say.
                      That's one example, and it's a player who had already won a Super Bowl and played 6 NFL seasons before getting to Denver. A college player who has just had his third surgery in 18 months isn't a thing that you can overlook. Players who have an extensive injury history in college don't tend to get hurt less in the NFL.

                      I commend him for not wanting to cut short his season, but a player that's playing through a nagging injury also becomes less effective. Is it worth giving up a second round pick to draft a player who will be great for 8 games per year? I don't think it is.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                        That's one example, and it's a player who had already won a Super Bowl and played 6 NFL seasons before getting to Denver. A college player who has just had his third surgery in 18 months isn't a thing that you can overlook. Players who have an extensive injury history in college don't tend to get hurt less in the NFL.

                        I commend him for not wanting to cut short his season, but a player that's playing through a nagging injury also becomes less effective. Is it worth giving up a second round pick to draft a player who will be great for 8 games per year? I don't think it is.
                        I get the concern and your right 3 surgeries in 18 months does make you wonder. But over those same injury plagued 18 months he was almost as productive as anyone. 140 receptions and 40 carries to go with 18 TDs. If he didn't have these concerns he would be the 1st WR drafted IMO. The NFL is changing and these guys that you can utilize in different looks are becoming far more valuable.

                        But using the second on him or using the 3rds to move up would be plan B for me. I would trade back and mitigate that risk by picking up that extra selection. Shenault could wind up being that extra selection.

                        I know there are many of us hoping we select 2 WRs this draft. If we are even thinking about drafting 2 WR then Shenault should absolutely be on that short list.

                        If I were a team like Philly or LV who need a #1 I couldn't take him.......too much risk. But we need a complimentary piece for Sutton and one that Shurmur can utilize to his strengths.

                        I don't think there is a WR with bigger upside in his "group". Jefferson, Jeudy, Shenault these are three great fits for us. Shenault is the value play imo.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                          That's one example, and it's a player who had already won a Super Bowl and played 6 NFL seasons before getting to Denver. A college player who has just had his third surgery in 18 months isn't a thing that you can overlook. Players who have an extensive injury history in college don't tend to get hurt less in the NFL.

                          I commend him for not wanting to cut short his season, but a player that's playing through a nagging injury also becomes less effective. Is it worth giving up a second round pick to draft a player who will be great for 8 games per year? I don't think it is.
                          Who's overlooking his injuries? They are a concern. Which is why a player considered by many to be the best athlete in the draft will be available in the late 1st or early 2nd. He would likely be a Top Ten pick if he didn't have injury issues.

                          Yes, Stink is one example. But you missed the point. Surgeries are one thing. The degree of each is what matters and not all surgeries for sports injuries are created equal.

                          Here's Shenault's surgeries:

                          2018: right turf toe, required surgery
                          2018: torn left shoulder labrum, required surgery
                          2019: upper core muscle injury


                          As far as him not wanting to come out of games, that's Mel Tucker's (CU coach) fault. It was Tucker's responsibility to protect his players and despite their wishes do what's best for them. Had Shenault had surgery immediately he likely would have ran a lot faster at the combine. By not having recovered at the combine it may have cost Shenault millions of dollars.

                          Your 8 games a year is pure speculation yet stated as a fact. Yes it's a gamble. But I've watched CU football my entire life and I'm having a hard time coming up with a better offensive player than Shenault. Maybe Cliff Branch who should have won the Heisman that year instead of Johnny Rodgers. Bienemy, Salaam, Hagan and Westbrook were all excellent but I'd take Shenault as a pro over any of them and Westbrook was the 4th overall pick when he came out.

                          The risk is accurate but is only part of the equation. There's also a lot of benefit in the risk vs gain equation. If he can stay healthy, he's an absolute beast. Again, this thread is about moving down and picking up extra pick/picks which offset some of the risk.

                          Demaryius Thomas played 10 and 11 games his first two season then only missed 1 game over the next 7 seasons. Injuries can happen to players that weren't injured in college as well as players with injuries can also get healthy.

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                          • #28
                            Henry Ruggs has averaged a little over 3 receptions per game over the past 2 years. With all the attention a healthy Tua and Jeudy got there was room for more production.

                            Assuming a player like Ruggs can be (at least) as effective- or more so in this case- playing in the NFL is a risk itself. If he continues on with that production he will be on par with Kenny Stills. A really fast WR who gets around 50 balls and makes a couple handfuls of long grabs. I don't see how assuming he will be so much more effective than that- is any less of a risk than Shenault.

                            Shenault is certainly not going to get more attention than he got at Colorado, and Ruggs is not going to be facing lesser competition or even have a better QB necessarily.

                            Ruggs has shot up draft boards with comparisons to one of the best WR in the game. Shenault has dropped due to a minor injury that has been repaired.

                            The risk is all on the team that drafts Ruggs with the expectation of him equaling that of an all-pro. Personally, I can't wait to see Shenault play with an even bigger chip after being told hes a second tier risky WR. I just hope he doing it for us and not against us.

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                            • #29
                              Shenault is unstoppable. He was CUs entire offense. And everybody knew it. They still couldn’t stop him. He is dynamic as they get. Just Can he stay healthy.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Montoya View Post
                                Shenault is unstoppable. He was CUs entire offense. And everybody knew it. They still couldn’t stop him. He is dynamic as they get. Just Can he stay healthy.
                                He was a jack of all trades, when your asked to carry the load like he was, one would tend to be injured more often but idk if I’d spend a first or high second on him.

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