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  • #16
    Originally posted by HDbroncos02 View Post
    I would hate giving up a 2nd round pick to move up. If we can get away with giving up a 3rd and a 5th (or a 2021 4th), I’d be happy with that. Of course, we have to factor in what a team like LV or even PHI might bid to move up as well.

    With that being said, I think LV is more than content to stay put and take CeeDee Lamb, who I envision is absolutely the type of player that Mike Mayock covets.

    It all depends on how highly Shurmur values any specific WR and if Elway and Fangio agree. If he envisions one of the top 3 significantly over the rest it may be worth it.

    I would love to be a fly on the wall as these draft discussions are going on.

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    • #17
      Dammit in might get talked into him...even though I have been firm in my belief in trenches trenches trenches..
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      • #18
        Originally posted by EddieMac View Post
        Dammit in might get talked into him...even though I have been firm in my belief in trenches trenches trenches..
        I’ve wanted a top pick Tackle every year since Manning retired and the only one Elway has taken was Bolles who I didn’t even want.

        I’ve given up hope of him doing it.

        That said we don’t need to trade up for any WR. There are more than enough top tier talent wrs that would immediately have an impact for us without moving up. We could even trade down and still get one better than what we currently have behind Sutton.
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        • #19
          Originally posted by DenverBlood View Post
          I’ve wanted a top pick Tackle every year since Manning retired and the only one Elway has taken was Bolles who I didn’t even want.

          I’ve given up hope of him doing it.


          That said we don’t need to trade up for any WR. There are more than enough top tier talent wrs that would immediately have an impact for us without moving up. We could even trade down and still get one better than what we currently have behind Sutton.
          Me, too. I feel your pain, Man. :doh:
          "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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          • #20
            Originally posted by DenverBlood View Post
            I’ve wanted a top pick Tackle every year since Manning retired and the only one Elway has taken was Bolles who I didn’t even want.

            I’ve given up hope of him doing it.

            That said we don’t need to trade up for any WR. There are more than enough top tier talent wrs that would immediately have an impact for us without moving up. We could even trade down and still get one better than what we currently have behind Sutton.
            I should have caveated that I am not about a big trade up for a WR... just wouldn’t cry if he is comes as advertised
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            • #21
              Originally posted by EddieMac View Post
              Dammit in might get talked into him...even though I have been firm in my belief in trenches trenches trenches..
              Would make us very similar to the Steelers when they had Brown, JuJu, and Martavis Bryant (minus the headcase locker room issues).

              If you had Jeudy, Sutton, Fant, Hamler, Gordon/Lindsay on the same field, it covers up a lot of OL issues, and becomes a scheming nightmare.

              I'm with you...I don't like trading up in general, but if he does turn out to be like Jerry Rice, I'd be very happy.

              Just please don't cost us a second rounder...

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              • #22
                Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                Me, too. I feel your pain, Man. :doh:
                Perusing the previous draft threads here is such a comical experience because nearly everyone here has been banging the table for an OT in the first round for the last 5 years. And when we actually did (Bolles), we were enraged because it was the wrong OT we wanted— with Ramczyk and Cam Robinson still on the board.
                2020 Adopt-A-Bronco: #10 JERRY JEUDY
                Previous Adoptees: #25 CHRIS HARRIS, #38 QUINTON CARTER, #43 TJ WARD

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by EddieMac View Post
                  Dammit in might get talked into him...even though I have been firm in my belief in trenches trenches trenches..
                  I had/have a bad feeling about adding Oline help ever since Elway and Vic year end presser. They pretty much told us by reading between the lines that they were sticking with Bolles and James. I'm glad they picked up Glasgow because he is durable and versatile. They can draft a early/mid round guard and still have a good interior line

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post
                    I had/have a bad feeling about adding Oline help ever since Elway and Vic year end presser. They pretty much told us by reading between the lines that they were sticking with Bolles and James. I'm glad they picked up Glasgow because he is durable and versatile. They can draft a early/mid round guard and still have a good interior line
                    The same way it was going to be good last year because we added Munchak, and James ? The same way the year before Veldheer was going to be an upgrade and Bolles was going to take a step forward ? The same way the year before that Menelik Watson and Donald Leary were the big free agency signings to change our fortunes ? The same way the year before that Russell Okung and Donald Stephenson were going to be our new bookends and bargain signings ?

                    This fan base has such a short memory. Every off-season everyone buys into this non-sense that the offensive line has been addressed and we are good to go. Only to reach week 3 and realise there are holes everywhere like some of us said all off-season. Elway has demonstrated no ability to fix an offensive line, and with James yet to play any significant snaps, and the new addition just another average player making way too much money, ignoring offensive line early will lead us to the same place again.

                    Teams recently, in the last 10 years have had much more success drafting wide receivers in the area from 20-50 in the draft, with more guys drafted higher than that not panning out. Throw in how deep this class of receivers is, and trading up for any wideout using multiple high assets, when we have been a losing team for several years now, and a year after taking a pass catcher in the first round, it makes no sense to me and is a pure luxury pick. I think it will be a big mistake for the future of our team when you consider we finally trended upwards last year, and we have a chance to secure some key pieces across the board in some foundational positions. I understand how exciting wide reciever picks would be, but I fear we could ruin our progress of back to back solid drafts, by making a flashy, non-essential move. Will not be a fan of a wide reciever pick, will really not be a fan of trading up for one.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
                      The same way it was going to be good last year because we added Munchak, and James ? The same way the year before Veldheer was going to be an upgrade and Bolles was going to take a step forward ? The same way the year before that Menelik Watson and Donald Leary were the big free agency signings to change our fortunes ? The same way the year before that Russell Okung and Donald Stephenson were going to be our new bookends and bargain signings ?

                      This fan base has such a short memory. Every off-season everyone buys into this non-sense that the offensive line has been addressed and we are good to go. Only to reach week 3 and realise there are holes everywhere like some of us said all off-season. Elway has demonstrated no ability to fix an offensive line, and with James yet to play any significant snaps, and the new addition just another average player making way too much money, ignoring offensive line early will lead us to the same place again.

                      Teams recently, in the last 10 years have had much more success drafting wide receivers in the area from 20-50 in the draft, with more guys drafted higher than that not panning out. Throw in how deep this class of receivers is, and trading up for any wideout using multiple high assets, when we have been a losing team for several years now, and a year after taking a pass catcher in the first round, it makes no sense to me and is a pure luxury pick. I think it will be a big mistake for the future of our team when you consider we finally trended upwards last year, and we have a chance to secure some key pieces across the board in some foundational positions. I understand how exciting wide reciever picks would be, but I fear we could ruin our progress of back to back solid drafts, by making a flashy, non-essential move. Will not be a fan of a wide reciever pick, will really not be a fan of trading up for one.
                      You are absolutely right. That is what the analytics say. Sometimes you need to put aside analytics for someone special.

                      Here is a good article backing up your opinion:

                      https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.si.c...d-by-analytics
                      "He's going to be the #1 receiver, and is going to be a star in this league for a long time" Todd Mcshay on Jerry Jeudy

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                      • #26
                        Just curious what those who are saying we must take oline ( which i do agree with if they are also the bpa that fills a need)
                        Who do you take at 15 if the following are available:
                        WR Jerry Jeudy
                        CB CJ Henderson
                        T Ezra Cleveland
                        T Austin Jackson
                        T Josh Jones
                        C Cesar Ruiz
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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                          Just curious what those who are saying we must take oline ( which i do agree with if they are also the bpa that fills a need)
                          Who do you take at 15 if the following are available:
                          WR Jerry Jeudy
                          CB CJ Henderson
                          T Ezra Cleveland
                          T Austin Jackson
                          T Josh Jones
                          C Cesar Ruiz
                          I have not seen anyone say that, the value needs to be right. But there will be plenty of talent at other key positions of much more need and value to the team available. Yeah, we need to take pressure off of Sutton, but he is a Pro-Bowl reciever, surely if the value is right adding at least one good cornerback to the room, or one good offensive lineman to the room helps round the team out more.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by MarshallMoss View Post
                            You are absolutely right. That is what the analytics say. Sometimes you need to put aside analytics for someone special.

                            Here is a good article backing up your opinion:

                            https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.si.c...d-by-analytics
                            I agree you need to evaluate every situation differently, and in ours I just can't see the reason in making the move based on where we are currently as an overall roster, and our position in terms of trajectory of the team moving forward.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
                              I have not seen anyone say that, the value needs to be right. But there will be plenty of talent at other key positions of much more need and value to the team available. Yeah, we need to take pressure off of Sutton, but he is a Pro-Bowl reciever, surely if the value is right adding at least one good cornerback to the room, or one good offensive lineman to the room helps round the team out more.
                              I agree with you, I believe we ended up with Bolles and Lynch because the team went with needs over value.

                              Who would you take out of the players i listed at 15?
                              I’d take Jeudy.
                              The only tackles I’d take is Thomas and/or Willis that high.
                              Last edited by 58Miller; 04-19-2020, 02:54 PM.
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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by MarshallMoss View Post
                                You are absolutely right. That is what the analytics say. Sometimes you need to put aside analytics for someone special.

                                Here is a good article backing up your opinion:

                                https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.si.c...d-by-analytics
                                A very interesting article for sure. Based on those analytics, a 3 round mock could look like this...

                                1. Javon Kinlaw, DL
                                2. Brandon Aiyuk/Jalen Reagor, WR
                                3. Matt Peart, OT
                                3. Matt Hennessy, C
                                3. Amik Robertson, CB

                                It fills pretty much all the perceived needs. Kinlaw has a high ceiling and is a safe prospect. Both of those Round 2 receivers would be sure-fire 1st rounders any other year too.

                                This is where it gets pretty debatable— the question of opting for that blue chip WR with several elite tools EARLY (Jeudy/Lamb/Ruggs) OR waiting until the 2nd or 3rd to grab a “value” WR with 1-2 great traits and some glaring flaws. I’ve seen the list of recent first round WRs, and I admit— it’s not pretty. So common sense leads one to think, “What’s different about this class?” To that I would point towards the tape for one’s answer. There is hyperbole around these guys for a reason. Jeudy is more polished and more advanced of a route runner than any other receiver I’ve studied since I’ve started following college prospects in 2013. I could go on about Lamb and Ruggs too, but this is a Jeudy thread.

                                Every time I think of Jeudy’s pro potential, I can’t help but look back at the DEN @ PIT game in 2015 where AB cooked our defense (and CHJ) for 16 catches, 189 yards and 2 TDs. And that was with an average Steelers OL that gave up a total of 33 sacks that year (14th-best in the NFL). Of course, AB was a 6th round pick himself— but I don’t see a prospect other than Jeudy in this year’s class that can make such an immediate AB-like impact for our offense.

                                I suppose it’s why we have these great debates on this board, it’s awesome to see how we have different philosophies on how best to improve the team we all love. To me, I simply think we have a great opportunity to get a transcendent WR prospect early in the 1st round. Jeudy is much more than a “shiny object” or “non-essential, luxury pick”.

                                And my last point to this wordy post— fast forward to the middle of the 2020 season (if it happens). When opposing defenses key in on Sutton and Fant, do you guys have faith in Tim Patrick/DaeSean Hamilton/rookie 2nd-3rd round WR to get open and make a play to move the sticks in crucial situations? Let’s say an improved Bolles or a 1st/2nd round OT is at LT... they buy Lock a little extra time in the pocket, awesome. So who do you trust to run a great route to get separation downfield and make a clutch catch? I fear if we don’t prioritize adding a weapon opposite of Sutton, many of our offensive drives will stagnate. I’m just not satisfied with just Sutton and Fant as our main weapons. Especially now that teams are using 5 DBs more than ever. Plus Shurmur primarily uses 3 WR, 1 TE offensive sets. I need to be able to trust that those two receivers aside from Sutton can be proficient— and even better if they can be game changers.
                                2020 Adopt-A-Bronco: #10 JERRY JEUDY
                                Previous Adoptees: #25 CHRIS HARRIS, #38 QUINTON CARTER, #43 TJ WARD

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