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  • #46
    Originally posted by myoung View Post
    At this point, I would not be surprised to see Jefferson go before Ruggs. I still think someone will be in love with the speed and draft Ruggs early. Maybe the Jets, Raiders, 49ers, or us. Feels more likely to me that Ruggs goes before Jefferson, but it would not surprise me to see the other way. Sounds like several teams love Jeffersons skills and production. Personally I prefer Jefferson to Ruggs and would take him as the 3rd WR in this draft.
    I’ve been saying it but my top 5 are Jeudy, Jefferson, Mims, and then Ruggs, followed by Claypool! .

    I don’t care who it offends, CeeDee Lamb may not be a bust but he won’t be anything special either. He gets open in the college game but it won’t be so easy in the NFL.
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    • #47
      Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
      The same way it was going to be good last year because we added Munchak, and James ? The same way the year before Veldheer was going to be an upgrade and Bolles was going to take a step forward ? The same way the year before that Menelik Watson and Donald Leary were the big free agency signings to change our fortunes ? The same way the year before that Russell Okung and Donald Stephenson were going to be our new bookends and bargain signings ?

      This fan base has such a short memory. Every off-season everyone buys into this non-sense that the offensive line has been addressed and we are good to go. Only to reach week 3 and realise there are holes everywhere like some of us said all off-season. Elway has demonstrated no ability to fix an offensive line, and with James yet to play any significant snaps, and the new addition just another average player making way too much money, ignoring offensive line early will lead us to the same place again.

      Teams recently, in the last 10 years have had much more success drafting wide receivers in the area from 20-50 in the draft, with more guys drafted higher than that not panning out. Throw in how deep this class of receivers is, and trading up for any wideout using multiple high assets, when we have been a losing team for several years now, and a year after taking a pass catcher in the first round, it makes no sense to me and is a pure luxury pick. I think it will be a big mistake for the future of our team when you consider we finally trended upwards last year, and we have a chance to secure some key pieces across the board in some foundational positions. I understand how exciting wide reciever picks would be, but I fear we could ruin our progress of back to back solid drafts, by making a flashy, non-essential move. Will not be a fan of a wide reciever pick, will really not be a fan of trading up for one.
      Pro Football Focus offensive line rankings for the last 2 years.

      24. Denver Broncos (2018)

      This line dominated at times when fully healthy, but once injuries struck, they had no answer. Their two best starters, Ronald Leary and Matt Paradis, both ended the season on IR. While third-year starter Connor McGovern looked competent at guard, he was a nightmare at center. He allowed 22 pressures in eight games at center filling in for Paradis.



      12. Denver Broncos (2019)

      The Broncos didn’t have the offensive line that they initially pictured coming into the season due to an injury to free-agent acquisition Ja’Wuan James. His replacement, Elijah Wilkinson, was the weak link of the group. Wilkinson’s 10 sacks allowed were the fourth most of any tackle this season. All was not lost for Denver, though, as its offensive line ranked in the top half of the league in pass-blocking and run-blocking grade under first-year coach Mike Munchak.

      So, it looks like there was improvement, whether some of us realized it or not. It's also fair to say that you have to give a coach, any coach, more than one year to build a unit/team, whatever. The Steelers were 15th in O-line play (PFF) the year before Munchak got there, 1st the last year he was there, with rankings of 8th, 10th, 3rd and 5th sprinkled in the middle.

      You seem a little bent on the idea that our line is just terrible and nothing we do to fix it (unless it's what you want them to do) will work. It's worth noting that the best O-linemen we've had under Elway's direction have been free agent additions, until Risner, that is.

      Personally, I don't think either of the two tackles that look like they could be stars will be there at 15, and maybe none of the top 4 tackles will be there at 15. So even if you don't want to trade up for a wide receiver, you might have to get on board with trading up for a tackle. Otherwise, who should we draft at 15?
      Last edited by Letswinplz77; 04-20-2020, 12:08 AM.
      All it takes to win is doing whatever it takes to win: COMMITMENT

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      • #48
        The question John needs to ask himself is; how much better is Jeudy than Jefferson, or Mims?

        Those 2 guys will be there at 15 so we won’t have to give up draft capital to get them.

        Idk, I’m ok with moving up to get Jeudy, as long as we don’t overpay.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by KWHIT97 View Post
          The question John needs to ask himself is; how much better is Jeudy than Jefferson, or Mims?

          Those 2 guys will be there at 15 so we won’t have to give up draft capital to get them.

          Idk, I’m ok with moving up to get Jeudy, as long as we don’t overpay.

          This is where I get stuck with going WR at 15 or via trade up, the depth here is so good. I do not think either of the guys you listed are as good as Jeudy, but I would trade down from 15 to 22-26 and grab an extra 2nd. There are going to be good WR options late 1st and a chance to grab another talent in the 3rd.
          Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Letswinplz77 View Post
            Pro Football Focus offensive line rankings for the last 2 years.

            24. Denver Broncos (2018)

            This line dominated at times when fully healthy, but once injuries struck, they had no answer. Their two best starters, Ronald Leary and Matt Paradis, both ended the season on IR. While third-year starter Connor McGovern looked competent at guard, he was a nightmare at center. He allowed 22 pressures in eight games at center filling in for Paradis.



            12. Denver Broncos (2019)

            The Broncos didn’t have the offensive line that they initially pictured coming into the season due to an injury to free-agent acquisition Ja’Wuan James. His replacement, Elijah Wilkinson, was the weak link of the group. Wilkinson’s 10 sacks allowed were the fourth most of any tackle this season. All was not lost for Denver, though, as its offensive line ranked in the top half of the league in pass-blocking and run-blocking grade under first-year coach Mike Munchak.

            So, it looks like there was improvement, whether some of us realized it or not. It's also fair to say that you have to give a coach, any coach, more than one year to build a unit/team, whatever. The Steelers were 15th in O-line play (PFF) the year before Munchak got there, 1st the last year he was there, with rankings of 8th, 10th, 3rd and 5th sprinkled in the middle.

            You seem a little bent on the idea that our line is just terrible and nothing we do to fix it (unless it's what you want them to do) will work. It's worth noting that the best O-linemen we've had under Elway's direction have been free agent additions, until Risner, that is.

            Personally, I don't think either of the two tackles that look like they could be stars will be there at 15, and maybe none of the top 4 tackles will be there at 15. So even if you don't want to trade up for a wide receiver, you might have to get on board with trading up for a tackle. Otherwise, who should we draft at 15?
            Very good post! Giving Munchak credit for improvement and realizing he needs more than one season to fix all the Oline problems.
            Risner filled one hole last year, and Glasgow should fill another this year. If we get A healthy Juwan James back that will be 3 of 5 positions and I believe a LT will be brought in to challenge Bolles and a C to challenge Morris & Schlotman. Oline os trending in the right direction.

            I think Fangio’s is in the same boat with our defense.
            Year two should be big for our defense, they had their moments last year but the group was still under reconstruction.
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            • #51
              Is Jeudy going to be Fitzgerald? Hopkins? Green? Bryant? Our own DT? Johnson?

              If Elway thinks this guy is those guys than go get him. If there is any doubt he isn't than just sit tight and take BPA. Personally, I think he will be that good. I think with him and Sutton together we will have one HELL of an offense to go with with what is already a darn good defense

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
                I’ve been saying it but my top 5 are Jeudy, Jefferson, Mims, and then Ruggs, followed by Claypool! .

                I don’t care who it offends, CeeDee Lamb may not be a bust but he won’t be anything special either. He gets open in the college game but it won’t be so easy in the NFL.
                So your first two picks are pretty simple, right Sam? OT or Kinlaw at 15 and Claypool at 46. No movement needed for a receiver unless Claypool and Mims both go before 46, and I don't think Claypool will. My tier considerations would look something like Jeudy and Lamb at 15. Trade back for Aiyuk, or Mims (a trade back for Jefferson or Ruggs would be extremely tight and hard to pull off). And outside of that, wait to see who falls between Aiyuk, Mims, Reagor and Hamler at 46. If none do, wait for the 3rd round and see who falls between Shenault and Peoples-Jones early 3rd. Late 3rd see who falls between Gandy-Golden, KJ Hill, and Pittman Jr. In none of these scenarios am I trading up, HOWEVER... if John and co. think Jeudy is definitely the best receiver in this draft, and they are right about that, then he warrants trading up to 10 for. On my part, it's a dice roll to wait and see w/o trading up, but if there's ever a draft where you can get away with it, this is the one. If it gets to the point where I took something else, and one of the receivers I had tiered for that pick continues to fall, I would consider trading back up to ensure I get that player. Given our middle 3rd round pick, this would apply to Aiyuk and Mims in the second round specifically. I initially thought Mims would fall to the late 2nd to early 3rd, but the hype is getting real on him now. I don't think he will. I don't think Aiyuk will either.

                That's pretty much the gist of it. There are other guys I like, but I won't take in the first 3 rounds. All together there are 21 receivers I would draft this year, who I feel could make an immediate impact on this team. Some of them aren't ideal fits, like Gandy-Golden, but the raw talent I feel warrants the early selection. I can get another supplemental receiver later on in this draft.

                What is really interesting about this draft, as far as receivers are concerned is how different everyone's rankings are. There has to be a ton of movement from team to team on receiver rankings. Because of that, I feel like some teams are going to reach big time while others are going to get steals, and I'm not against John going all in on getting the consensus1a or 1b receiver.

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                • #53
                  Above comment of “some teams will reach big time others will get steals” is going to inevitable with so much talent. And as stated “20 desirable WR picks” will make it easy in a couple years to dismiss the busts and glorify the successes that weren’t selected.

                  Hindsight will be brutal when remembering some of these picks. But much will depend on situation and opportunity as much as skills.

                  This is a tough decision. Being patient at #15 may be the best strategy. But completely understand if they move up or trade down depending on the situation.

                  Elway and Co just can’t be wrong with whatever option they choose. Broncos can’t afford to miss with this one. It is a safe bet that a WR is taken in the first 3 Bronco picks. How that player has an impact will lead to a lot of judgement. Especially if the WR taken has only moderate impact.

                  Choose correctly Elway. More then anything is trust your instincts and coaches and be bold if needed. If Jeudy is really the hands down choice and need in his opinion. Go get him.
                  Last edited by FR Tim; 04-20-2020, 09:02 AM.

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                  • #54
                    I love the Jeudy potential. Trading up...... we better get him if we are doing that. I would trade up for Simmons but not as far as I think you would need to get him.

                    Someone mentioned Gandy-Golden. I would like him say 4th round. I still would like us to invest in a true slot WR as that seems to be missing in this offense. Gandy-Golden isn't that.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
                      Hamler would be exciting to add. Just not seeing another WR added in the 3rd. Especially if they have to use one to move up to get Jeudy. ( or Ruggs, Lamb)

                      I tend to like the idea of filling some needs in rds 2-3. Then select a complimentary WR in 4th/5th. Some I like would be Duvernay, Proche or Hightower. But there a few others in that range too.

                      Key is to get that elite WR in the 1st or early 2nd at the latest. Majority of the later rd WRs are complimentary at best. It’s like wanting steak and potatoes but just ordering the potatoes. Or getting the frosting w/ o the cake. Just not the same.
                      So we hit hockey with sutton looking like an elite wr and we just need to add complimentary pieces to him
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                      latavis murray trade bait

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
                        So we hit hockey with sutton looking like an elite wr and we just need to add complimentary pieces to him
                        Confused by your comment. My point in that post is Sutton is damn good but needs help in the offense. I prefer the Broncos take one early (#15 or move up?) . No later then the 2nd rd. And even then I prefer they trade up early in the second instead of waiting to see who is left at #46.

                        The complimentary WR comment was about a later pick. Adding a second WR in this draft. One that is not relied upon to be the starter and can be a solid asset in certain schemes or as a returner. If the Broncos FO believe they already have that in Patrick, Hamilton, Winfree or Spencer then so be it.

                        The key is the elite WR early to challenge defenses with two dynamic WRs. Who and where that second WR is selected is the debate. Some have longer lists of "top tier" WRs then I do. Going to be fun to see how Elway approaches it.

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                        • #57
                          Who runs the best routes:right time/right place, has good hands and holds onto the ball? If that's Jeudy, I'm all in at 15. If we have to trade up, then do so for an OT only

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                          • #58
                            11 personnel with Sutton, Fant, Jeudy, Gordon and Patrick or Beck would put a lot of pressure on any Defense. Sounds like something Shurmur could utilize. That package could be lined up in quite a few formations.
                            "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by KWHIT97 View Post
                              The question John needs to ask himself is; how much better is Jeudy than Jefferson, or Mims?

                              Those 2 guys will be there at 15 so we won’t have to give up draft capital to get them.

                              Idk, I’m ok with moving up to get Jeudy, as long as we don’t overpay.
                              Jefferson, sure, Mims doesn’t compare even close to the other two imo. Jeudy and Jefferson are both starters from day one, and can play inside and out, run a full route tree, play inside or out, and can find open space in zone defenses. Mims hasn’t been asked to do any of that.
                              Fightin' Texas Aggie c/o '16

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                              • #60
                                I do have a feeling the cost of a trade up will be our 2nd rounder...
                                Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

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