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Based On This Draft Did We Copycat A Little?

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  • Based On This Draft Did We Copycat A Little?

    Record breaking WR draft (first 2 rounds for sure). A number of speedsters. Say The Broncos, are we trying to be more like KC? Is Oakland? Is Dallas loading up on O? Is there more initiative to also have receiving RBs? Or is this just the way of the football land?

    Of course teams want a good O, as they do a good D. But is this a case of being like the winner? If San Fran would have won, would teams be stocking up on Dliners?? Maybe the run game gets a boost.

    I like our O. I think it gives our young QB a load of support, and this after a poor O season (make that more than one!). And I admit, I wish we would have added an OT as well.

    But though the current champs have a track meet going on, and an athletic, mobile, pass throwing QB, and I would argue that the 3 best QBs last season were described similarly....does winning in future have to look like winning of late? I would argue that a new trend will emerge at some point. I find it interesting that teams like Indy found the secret with KC earlier in the year (steady diet of run), as did The Titans with The Ravens. Not saying it's sustainable, but heck, we won our last SB mainly with D.

    Interesting to me, Carolina went 7 for 7 D this draft, but that could be more about lots of need than anything.

    This is just a lazy take on my part, with time on my hands, but I suggest that there are more ways to win then one. And teams should be careful not to try to copy the current winner, unless they have the tools, including coaching, to do so.

    BUT...if that's our direction, and it fits us, and we suit it, I'm game. But I think we can be a multi faceted winner....pass, run, D. A nice balance.:thumb:d

    SO GANG....do you think most of the O I mention is about need more than other thing? Is The KC model worthy of notice, but not necessarily the way you'd go? And sure, is there some more merit to match fire with fire?

    Have fun with this!:thumb:


  • #2
    I don't look at it as a copy cat approach. I look at it as a team that averaged 17 points per game last year that's trying to score more. As it stands today, we have a better defense than the chiefs and raiders. We could make the argument that we have the best defense in the division but I will give the nod to LA. If we can score...24? 27? A game is that enough to push for the division?

    It's obvious the Chiefs are the top team in the league..... offensively. We NEED to be able to match them score for score and have the defense that can slow them down. I think we have that and I wouldn't be surprised if we won the division because of that.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post
      I don't look at it as a copy cat approach. I look at it as a team that averaged 17 points per game last year that's trying to score more. As it stands today, we have a better defense than the chiefs and raiders. We could make the argument that we have the best defense in the division but I will give the nod to LA. If we can score...24? 27? A game is that enough to push for the division?

      It's obvious the Chiefs are the top team in the league..... offensively. We NEED to be able to match them score for score and have the defense that can slow them down. I think we have that and I wouldn't be surprised if we won the division because of that.
      Hey pal....do you think any teams are copycating the Chiefs?

      No doubt, we did not have enough O to win anything important. We might now!

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      • #4
        I think KC is one model but also in general you can't expect to only score 17 points and win a lot of games. Broncos have been slowly bleeding veteran talent since the Superbowl and Elway seemed to focus on revamping the defense but that lead to a stagnant offense whose issues were compounding by some bad draft draft picks on offense.
        sigpic
        "I'm scared if I stop all at once, the cumulative hangover will literally kill me."

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        • #5
          I think the narrative is off when looked at things from a high level.

          To start with, "we averaged 17 points per game". Not with our QB now we didn't. In Lock's 4 wins we scored 26 points, than was the norm. What we did in KC, in the snow, was an outlier. Even getting Glasgow, James back, and adding Gordon, I could have easily made an argument that we were better than the team that scored an average of 26 point per game in the 4 wins over 5 games. 17 points per game is a team that stooped exsisting week 13.

          We were good on defense, sure if you feel giving up 90 yards rushing or more in 8 of the last 9 games. 477 yards allowed to Oak?

          KC is not even the team I am concerned with, the salary cap will do them in. Balt is staring down a bunch of defenses built to stop a track team. They will just run the ball down teams throats (just like Tenn). In a rematch, I would take both those teams over KC.

          Now they got Queen and Dobbins...good grief.
          Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

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          • #6
            Originally posted by MHSalute View Post
            I think the narrative is off when looked at things from a high level.

            To start with, "we averaged 17 points per game". Not with our QB now we didn't. In Lock's 4 wins we scored 26 points, than was the norm. What we did in KC, in the snow, was an outlier. Even getting Glasgow, James back, and adding Gordon, I could have easily made an argument that we were better than the team that scored an average of 26 point per game in the 4 wins over 5 games. 17 points per game is a team that stooped exsisting week 13.

            We were good on defense, sure if you feel giving up 90 yards rushing or more in 8 of the last 9 games. 477 yards allowed to Oak?

            KC is not even the team I am concerned with, the salary cap will do them in. Balt is staring down a bunch of defenses built to stop a track team. They will just run the ball down teams throats (just like Tenn). In a rematch, I would take both those teams over KC.

            Now they got Queen and Dobbins...good grief.
            I like what you did there....looking at our O on a different plane. Exactly, we were not as bad at end of season than the rest of the season. Excellent point! And true, those D stats are a bit unsettling....now, I do see a better day coming, with Chubb, Casey and Bouye, in spite of the losses. Would have liked a Murray or Queen on our side!

            So good, run games are still in vogue, and that's a good thing given our two main backs...and a better Oline overall.

            Yes, balance can win, and Baltimore is an excellent example of a team with all sorts of balance! The Titans are not quite there in my opinion. FTR, KC may still have a great season ahead.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by CanDB View Post
              Hey pal....do you think any teams are copycating the Chiefs?

              No doubt, we did not have enough O to win anything important. We might now!
              It's tough to say that any team is truly trying to copycat what the chiefs are. They are unique with the players the have. Broncos and Raiders had a pretty similar approach to the draft, get pieces on offense to keep up.

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              • #8
                This "new" NFL is not new, I was around watching Warren Moon and the Run and Shoot. Took a Kick Returner named Drew Hill and made him a fantasy god, Problem with spread offense is it does not work well in the red zone for one. Even Mahomes sees a big drop inside the opponents 10 and he has one of the best RZ TEs in Football.

                Not an issue in college where rosters are practically unlimited, but in the NFL you don't get to carry specialized players to bring in for goal line duties (not on the level of college),

                Give it a couple years and teams will see you can't allocate all this cap $$$ to WRs, QB, TE, and OT needed to run a good spread...leaves the defense in a real bad spot.
                Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by MHSalute View Post
                  This "new" NFL is not new, I was around watching Warren Moon and the Run and Shoot. Took a Kick Returner named Drew Hill and made him a fantasy god, Problem with spread offense is it does not work well in the red zone for one. Even Mahomes sees a big drop inside the opponents 10 and he has one of the best RZ TEs in Football.

                  Not an issue in college where rosters are practically unlimited, but in the NFL you don't get to carry specialized players to bring in for goal line duties (not on the level of college),

                  Give it a couple years and teams will see you can't allocate all this cap $$$ to WRs, QB, TE, and OT needed to run a good spread...leaves the defense in a real bad spot.
                  I think you are right. Other than TEs (on average), the passing game positions (QB, WR, OTs, OLB/DEs, CBs) are basically the highest paid players in the league. So you can't have all the top level ones or you will be deficient in other parts of the roster.

                  Thing about Warren Moon, he was killin it in The CFL before making the jump. His stats in The NFL would have been wild had he been there when he was actually good enough.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                    Thing about Warren Moon, he was killin it in The CFL before making the jump. His stats in The NFL would have been wild had he been there when he was actually good enough.
                    Moon was awesome, but different game today on what a defense can and can't do to WRs. Moon's career completion % would get QBs today replaced. Montana and Kelly were killing it at 59%.

                    Anyways, speaking of Kelly (both Jim and Chip), that is what we will most likely copy...a little K-Gun no huddle O imo. Eagles went from 17.5 ppg to 4th in scoring at 27 ppg. That was with 2nd year QB Nick Foles
                    Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MHSalute View Post
                      Moon was awesome, but different game today on what a defense can and can't do to WRs. Moon's career completion % would get QBs today replaced. Montana and Kelly were killing it at 59%.

                      Anyways, speaking of Kelly (both Jim and Chip), that is what we will most likely copy...a little K-Gun no huddle O imo. Eagles went from 17.5 ppg to 4th in scoring at 27 ppg. That was with 2nd year QB Nick Foles
                      The problem with Chip Kelly's offense is that he sacrificed formations and plays for the sake of speed. As NFL defenses started realizing that each formation led to 3 or 4 plays, then it became easy to shutdown. Spend the week putting in checks for each formation, then in the game call base and allow the D to adjust based on formation and just trust your keys.

                      Much easier in college to get away with that, especially at Oregon, because you can just out athlete the other team, even if they have a game plan in place to stop it.

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                      • #12
                        As for the original topic, absolutely the Broncos are running copy cat, they're trying to score more points and have a more effective offense, so they're trying to copy cat 2/3 of the league. But the KC model isn't that revolutionary, so I'm not sure that you could say that anyone is trying to copy cat them. If anything I would say the Broncos are trying to build their offense like Atlanta.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                          As for the original topic, absolutely the Broncos are running copy cat, they're trying to score more points and have a more effective offense, so they're trying to copy cat 2/3 of the league. But the KC model isn't that revolutionary, so I'm not sure that you could say that anyone is trying to copy cat them. If anything I would say the Broncos are trying to build their offense like Atlanta.
                          Agreed. We don’t have mahomes... so we can’t be trying to copycat KC that way.

                          Do we want to out score our opponents ? Yes. So we copycat them that way

                          Does speed kill? Hell ya. So we got speed. Copycat

                          But we are also trying to copycat teams with a good oline, a good balance between run and pass, with a good defence...
                          sigpic

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                            The problem with Chip Kelly's offense is that he sacrificed formations and plays for the sake of speed. As NFL defenses started realizing that each formation led to 3 or 4 plays, then it became easy to shutdown. Spend the week putting in checks for each formation, then in the game call base and allow the D to adjust based on formation and just trust your keys.

                            Much easier in college to get away with that, especially at Oregon, because you can just out athlete the other team, even if they have a game plan in place to stop it.
                            Jeury, Hamler, Fant, O, Sutton...who would ever accuse us of trying to out athlete other teams?

                            Disagree on it becoming easy to shut down, never really saw that happen in 3 years. Sam Bradford did not having the vertical chops needed, but they still were dropping 30 plus points on teams. I think if you a Desean Jackson (Hammler) and a Riley (Sutton) that can pressure defenses vertically, you can expand your formations. I'm not saying it is the best O to run, but it would create a big uptick in scoring. Chip ran this with two TEs also.

                            If only we had Chips O coordinator...
                            Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

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                            • #15
                              There is little in the game of football at the pro level that is new. Most innovations have come from the college and high school levels. Most of what is done is putting together known elements in a new synthesis. Some of the more successful pro coaches are students of football history.

                              Given the nature of the rules which favor the passing attack as well as the existence of several pass heavy offensive systems, it is no wonder Elway provided Buzz with some speed at the receiver positions in the interest of scoring more points.
                              "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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