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  • Originally posted by Paranoid
    AH!

    So thats the genius I was referring to early in this thread. Same guy that told me that the line would get by just fine with Marco Coleman and Raylee Johnson cuz they were "Pro Bowlers"
    I never said this either. i said Elliss was a probowler, and HE might be dominant, not johnson or coleman. Where are you guyus getting this stuff from. I heard Johnson had something like 33 sacks in 3 years so i though he was a sack threat but i never wanted him, i wanted berry.
    dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

    I tried to warn ya.

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    • Originally posted by bleedbluorange
      Jav what players would you consider as the core of this team? Because we have such a turnover every year. I'm not sure which players are safe atleast for about 4 more years.
      On defense, Bailey, Wilson, D.J. and that's it. On offense, Plummer (love him or hate him, he'll be here), Rod, Nalen (until age catches up), Foster, Hamilton, and Lepsis. I sure would like to add a few more core guys that can be counted on.

      We'll just have to fill the gaps the best we can in the meantime. Another good draft sure would help to build up our future core players.
      "You can't take the sky from me..."
      ------
      "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

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      • Trevor Pryce???

        i heard that trev is on the brading block along with kenoy kennedy and mike anderson i just wanted some clarification

        even thought ken kenn con contract is up i think he should stay along with mike and trevor

        seeing as trevor pryce is our best d-linemen

        THANX

        thanx to TMHG

        Atwater makes the hit
        Woodson makes the pick
        Lott takes it back


        All for respect this is how the game should be played

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        • It's nice to see someone tries to argue instead of just saying "you suk dood" but I still disagree.

          The reason to doubt it [that Pryce can regain his pre-injury form] is called historical evidence. Defensive linemen depend on leverage and mobility to be effective. Once your spine starts to have problems, you are done. You can no longer push off and power rush with your lower legs as that puts direct pressure on your back. Pryce's injury is not uncommon, most D-linemen are forced to retire when such an injury occurs. Pryce tried to come back at seasons end, he admitted he had no strength in his legs and was having issues with his nerve endings. That's plenty of reason to doubt right there.

          What do you expect he and his agent to say? I'm probably never going to be good again, but I might contribute 25 snaps a game as a wave DE?
          There's no way to know right now. Either he will recover as he (not just his agent) says or he won't. If he's lying about being close to 100% or fooling himself, then there's no possibility of a trade and we will see the Broncos release him after June 2, because he will have to prove to any new team (before any trade can happen) that he's completely healthy - or they won't sign him. Period. Let alone give up a draft pick for him. No-one is going to pay several million dollars for a defensive end who's 30+ and unhealthy. He won't get a contract - at least not anything more than the minimum guaranteed contract with some incentive clauses. If that's the case he may retire. If not, he'll have to take a huge pay cut. The fact that Denver is trying to trade Pryce rather than just cutting him after June 2 says that he's physically able to perform. No-one is going to be fooled on this, they'll make him work out and pass a strict physical and probably get other expert medical opinions (not yours). Trying to pass off damaged goods on someone in the NFL will quickly kill your reputation, thus your ability to make trades happen. Flim-flam artists don't depend on repeat business.

          As to Berry, he was not traded or let go. The Cardinals frontloaded a contract that was absolutely impossible for Denver to match thanks to the salary cap.
          By the time Berry hit free agency, the Broncos had already made up their minds not to sign him. If Shanahan really wanted him, he would have negotiated a contract up front before he hit free agency - as Berry wanted and expected. It wouldn't have cost what the Cardinals were ultimately willing to pay and could have been much more cap friendly. The Broncos low-balled their offer to him and let him become a restricted free agent because they thought Reggie Hayward was cheaper and just as good. They rolled the dice and they were wrong. Berry is an elite DE, as was obvious from his play in 2003 and became painfully obvious when he got 14 1/2 sacks for the hapless Cardinals in 2004. This was an example of a VERY POOR PERSONNEL DECISION. Everyone makes mistakes from time to time, but this was a particularly bad one. Shanahan landed a huge fish without effort on his part (pure luck) and he let it get away thinking it was a minnow.
          [/QUOTE]
          Quote:

          Please look at Trevor Pryce's stats the last 4 years. Basically 40 tackles, 7 sacks a season. That's average. He hasn't played at a Pro Bowl level since the year 2000 BEFORE he signed his massive contract.
          I have already quoted in this thread from the News article of last summer, the opinions of people who indisputably know what they are talking about, OL John Tate and DL Michael Strahan, both of whom think Pryce is one of the best DL in the NFL. They disagree with you. The overwhelming majority of NFL personnel directors also disagree, since they consider Pryce one of the top 4-5 DL as stated in the article:

          "He rarely gets a chance to play one-on-one with anybody no matter where they move him on the field," said Strahan, who has studied Pryce on tape but hasn't met him. "And I always tell people it's very easy to be a player out there on the field, one of 11, but whenever you're one of that 11 and everybody's focusing on you every play, every down, and you can still make it happen? Then that's the mark of a great player. And that's what Trevor is in the way he plays."
          .

          I'd have to say that Strahan's opinion has more weight than yours.

          You would see that his cap his is 3.5 million next season, NOT 6. And, if we were to cut him after June 2nd, that cap hit would become 1.75 million next season.
          The dead cap is $3.5 if he's traded, and $4.7 million if he's cut after June 2 ($2.36 this year and next - $11 million signing bonus over 7 years = $1.5/yr. x 3 years remaining = $4.7 million).

          If you keep Pryce, you basically lose your future star at Center in Hamilton, and you have no money to address a D-line that has been horrible for years on end, even with Pryce. We are going to cut him if we don't trade him, so the answer is whether a 3rd round pick is worth 1.75 million, and that answer is yes.
          If you keep Pryce at $9 million you lose those options, but that was never going to happen. Would he renegotiate his contract to make it more cap friendly, as Rod
          Smith and other veterans in the same position as Pryce have done? The Broncos didn't even try (says the article).

          Your problem is you think Pryce is still good. Pryce used to be a beast up until 2000. Once he signed his contract he became average and was outplayed by Berry and Heyward. Look up the stats, do some research, you sound absolutely foolish. All you need to do is go to ESPN or NFL.com and compare and contrast Pryce's stats with other players at his position. Then compare salaries.
          Once again, NFL experts, both players and personnel directors disagree, as quoted in the article cited earlier in this thread.

          Will Pryce be the same player he was before his injury. The jury is still out on that.
          I fear that he will be nearly as good and that he'll be like Rodney Harrison going to the Patriots - a standing insult to the management skills of the Broncos.

          The Chargers thought he was washed up. Do San Diego fans wish Harrison was back there right now?

          Last edited by Cugel; 02-16-2005, 12:01 PM.
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          • Originally posted by HaroldWoods41SS
            i heard that trev is on the brading block along with kenoy kennedy and mike anderson i just wanted some clarification

            even thought ken kenn con contract is up i think he should stay along with mike and trevor

            seeing as trevor pryce is our best d-linemen

            THANX
            Yah Kennedy is not under contract like you said. We have all heard the Pryce trade talks, but i have heard nothing about Anderson except he dosn't want to play FB, and is sopose to return and try to play a differant role on the team. So i have only heard of the one trade talk. Trevors.

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            • Originally posted by rcsodak
              Funny, lava, but wasn't it you that said if it weren't for TP, and his taking on 2-3 players, that Berry wouldn't have gotten the sacks?
              Now you're saying he wasn't worth that much money his last 4 yrs?
              You're killin' me, man......
              Actually RC, Lava has maintained that Pryce doesn't get doubled teamed.

              Btw MUG the Colts game two years ago that you've talked mention in a previous post. We must not have watched the same game because distinctly remember Pryce getting pressure on Manning several times and that he also recorded a sack in that game.
              John 11: 25-27

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              Thanks Snk16

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              • Pryce's comments- "I'm already gone"

                Pryce line: It's not me

                Lee Rasizer, Rocky Mountain News

                Trevor Pryce has not been traded yet. It is a possibility apparently only in the discussion stages. But in the defensive lineman's mind, he already is as good as gone from the Denver Broncos after eight seasons, particularly after news the team is shopping him has become public knowledge.

                "This is not something you come back from," Pryce said Monday. "We'd all look bad if they don't trade me. I look bad. They look bad. And they're dead set. That's fine."


                The Broncos are seeking draft- pick compensation for Pryce, according to the player's Denver- based agent, Peter Schaffer. Already, eight teams have expressed some interest, Pryce said. The impetus for moving Pryce on Denver's side seems to be rooted mainly in finances.

                His $9.16 million salary-cap figure for next season is among the highest in the league among defensive ends, trailing only the Tampa Bay Buccaneers' Simeon Rice ($10.7 million), the Cleveland Browns' Courtney Brown ($10.1 million) and the New York Jets' Shaun Ellis ($9.4 million).


                Schaffer said at no time have the Broncos approached him about a possible contract restructure, just a possible trade.


                The prospect of leaving is more "strange" than anything to Pryce. He expressed no bitterness at the Broncos or coach/executive vice president of football operations Mike Shanahan, who at the time of the lineman's 2001 contract renegotiation - which included a $10.6 million signing bonus - made him the league's top-paid defensive player.


                Pryce's lone disappointment was he was left unprepared for the news, getting a call about two weeks ago from Schaffer.


                "I remember when Neil Smith first came to the Broncos and he was traded. He told me it feels bad when the team that you love doesn't want you," Pryce said, alluding to his linemate from 1997-99. "But I don't see it that way in this situation. They want me. I think they'd like to keep me here. But their cap thing is really more of it than, 'He's just no good.' That'll never be an issue. There's more to it and reasons to it besides there's other guys better because there's really not other guys better."

                Pryce has been voted to four Pro Bowls since joining Denver as a first-round draft pick in 1997. He had 58 sacks from 1998-2002. But lower back surgery limited him to two brief appearances last season and the team's pass rush suffered.


                Trading Pryce potentially would help restock the defensive line in free agency and draft picks could allow the Broncos to better build through the draft.


                "They obviously have a plan of some sort," Pryce said. "You don't trade the best pass rusher that you have without having a solution."


                Denver has acknowledged it has put its leading rusher, Reuben Droughns, on the trading block but so far has not publicly commented on Pryce's situation.


                General manager Ted Sundquist did not return a phone call Monday. Last off-season, Denver made a big splash when it traded star running back Clinton Portis to the Washington Redskins for cornerback Champ Bailey and a second-round draft pick. But that deal was driven by Portis' contract demands.


                Pryce said he had "nothing to do with" a potential switch of teams.


                "I'd never ask for a trade," he said. "They signed me to a long-term deal. Why would I ask to be dealt?"


                The Broncos' potential switch to a 3-4 alignment seems to be another lesser factor into Pryce's possible exit. On that front, he views it as a logical next step.


                "I don't think you pay a guy the kind of money they're paying me to just hold off guys for linebackers," he said. "And that's what our defense has become. That's neither here nor there. . . . Our defense was pretty successful playing that way."


                There might also be some frustration within the Broncos that Pryce was unable to play last season. But in Pryce's view, "My doctors told me I wasn't going to play this season. I tried to play. That had nothing to do with it. They knew I'd be 100 percent healthy at some point after the season."


                Any team that deals for Pryce would need to be able to slot his hefty cap number onto their payroll but could turn around and renegotiate to make the financial implications more palatable. A reconstituted contract almost certainly would be negotiated before any trade being finalized along with Pryce needing to pass a physical. Pryce, 29, said he currently is "98 percent" healed from back surgery.

                Denver, because of pre-existing prorations of previously paid bonuses, still would be responsible for $3.53 million on the salary cap next season in "dead" money tied to Pryce by dealing him but would save $5.87 million in base salary, roster and workout bonuses.


                Pryce wants to land somewhere with a practice regimen and philosophy similar to that at Denver.


                "I love this city. I want to live here the rest of my life. This is where I want to grow old. But as far as me not playing for the Broncos, it was bound to happen," Pryce said. "It happened to Jevon Kearse. It happened to Terrell Owens. It happens to all the great players."


                MAKING THE CUT: The Broncos continued slicing their salary-cap commitments, finalizing a restructured contract with receiver Rod Smith.


                The revised deal converts $1.5 million of Smith's $5 million base salary to a guaranteed bonus, allowing that portion to be prorated over the final four years of the contract. Denver saves $1,125,000 this season.


                Lee Rasizer, Rocky Mountain News
                Only a fool allows another's opinion to anger him to the point of hurling insults.

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                • It is just sad to see this happening. Trevor Pryce is an awesome player and you got to feel bad for him. But he will land on his feet and wreak havoc for some other team. He is a class guy and I wish him the best. But he is right, the damage is done. The Broncos have to move on from here and hope it works out for the best.
                  Last edited by LDB; 02-16-2005, 12:35 PM.
                  Patriotic dissent is a luxury of those protected by better men than they.

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                  • IT's really sad, Trevor's a great player IMHO. I think even if we look bad we should keep him.

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                    • cheer up guys this is a necessary evil. Its time to let him go. It will free up alot of space under the cap and we'll be able to do alot more. nothing against pryce its not personal but this is the best move for the organization.
                      Only a fool allows another's opinion to anger him to the point of hurling insults.

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                      • I really feel bad for trevor. Is there any reason why we cant restructure his deal? That way a trade wouldnt be necessary? This is a really weird situation.

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                        • merged threads.


                          PLEASE SEARCH OR READ TO SEE IF THE TOPIC ALREADY HAS A THREAD BEFORE POSTING!

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                          • Originally posted by tuibroncos
                            I really feel bad for trevor. Is there any reason why we cant restructure his deal? That way a trade wouldnt be necessary? This is a really weird situation.
                            I wish there was something that we could do to keep him, I have a gut feeling if and when we let him go he is going to have big success while our defense continues to struggle. You hear comments like his (wanting to stay in Denver) and compare them to Shannon's earlier in the year and it makes you feel proud that someone loves playing for the Broncos.
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                            • Guys dont blame the Broncos, blame the dreaded salary cap, it happened to Owens, and it happened to Kearse.

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                              • its for the best...we made the playoffs without him last year we can do it again...

                                i'd like maybe a 1st and a good solid role player or a 2nd and/or 3rd for a superstar that we need...your thoughts?

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