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DenverPost Suggests We move Up to Grab Mike Willams

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  • #31
    Originally posted by rich5368
    There is no way we could afford the guy
    Of course we can afford a rookie. They add money just to sign rookies.

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    • #32
      Not to rain on anyone’s parade here but going into last years draft the consensus on this forum was out biggest need was DL. Since then we have lost another DE and most likely our DT. The other DL folks we have are at best second team, with the possible exception of the new kid from CLE.

      Our O-line should be better than last year just because of the experience at both tackle positions. Our RB situation is much improved, as is the WR.

      Our problem still remains DL and since we don’t have a #3 or #4 choice this year. Giving away a #1 and pryce and perhaps a #2 for a chance of a “game breaker“ is not a responsible thing to do IMHO.

      Pryce will not still be around on draft day so the deal gets cut soon or it does not happen.

      Sorry but DL is still the priority, IF we keep Putz and Mikey would be nuts not to, the Red zone scoring should be much better considering all the other areas of improvement.

      Comment


      • #33
        We have to do what it takes to afford Williams. This team is looking at another lackluster year. Everyone says we lost it on defense in Indianapolis, but if we could have turned most of our drives into points then the game might have been different.

        Kizla is a bronco hater. He can't get over the Elway years and see a replacement has talent. Plummer, Lelie, and Bell, are good. We do need the playmaker. Give Plummer someone special and he will be special too.

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        • #34
          The more I read about this Williams fellow, the more I like him. But I (louffromlitt.) don;t make the decisions.. but if I were gm right now... I would consider my options. It could be that williams will go #1 in the draft... that would suck if we traded up and that happened.
          R.I.P. Darrent Williams

          R.I.P. Damien Nash

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          • #35
            Originally posted by SimonSteele
            We have to do what it takes to afford Williams. This team is looking at another lackluster year. Everyone says we lost it on defense in Indianapolis, but if we could have turned most of our drives into points then the game might have been different.

            Kizla is a bronco hater. He can't get over the Elway years and see a replacement has talent. Plummer, Lelie, and Bell, are good. We do need the playmaker. Give Plummer someone special and he will be special too.
            This guy is one of the most sound posters i have ever seen on here. I agree with every word you said boss. You can get another marcus spears next year. You will not find another player like mike williams in next years draft unless he comes out of the sky.

            Our defense is sufficient enough to remain in the top ten. In my eyes our need for dlineman depends on whether or ellis not johnson is signed or not. It is a need that we have and im sure we will address but there is not a dlineman in this draft that has the potential to have an impact and change the as much as mike williams.
            A Wise Man Once Told Me Dont Argue With Fools Cuz People From a Distance Cant Tell Who is Who

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Jrhampton
              Not to rain on anyone’s parade here but going into last years draft the consensus on this forum was out biggest need was DL. Since then we have lost another DE and most likely our DT. The other DL folks we have are at best second team, with the possible exception of the new kid from CLE.

              Our O-line should be better than last year just because of the experience at both tackle positions. Our RB situation is much improved, as is the WR.

              Our problem still remains DL and since we don’t have a #3 or #4 choice this year. Giving away a #1 and pryce and perhaps a #2 for a chance of a “game breaker“ is not a responsible thing to do IMHO.

              Pryce will not still be around on draft day so the deal gets cut soon or it does not happen.

              Sorry but DL is still the priority, IF we keep Putz and Mikey would be nuts not to, the Red zone scoring should be much better considering all the other areas of improvement.
              I agree with you about the problems we have on defense. I just dont see the improvement on offense in the red zone. You said "Red zone scoring should be much better considering all the other areas of improvement", I dont know what weve done to get better in the red zone

              I would draft a defensive lineman, unless we've got the option to go after a gamebreaker like Williams. He and Lelie would be a good duo in the future.

              Like it or not......No matter how good the defense is, we cant win without points. Scoring was every bit as big a problem as the defensive line.

              Comment


              • #37
                Kansas City 16 1089 418.4 6.1 24.9 91 193 47.2 4 14 28.6 117 963
                Indianapolis 16 968 404.7 6.7 23.7 70 164 42.7 4 7 57.1 106 801
                Green Bay 16 1053 397.3 6.0 22.1 98 207 47.3 8 14 57.1 116 950
                Minnesota 16 985 396.2 6.4 21.9 102 195 52.3 6 10 60.0 117 884
                Denver 16 1070 395.8 5.9 21.9 78 206 [B]37.9[/B] 7 14 50.0 93 880
                St. Louis 16 1011 367.3 5.8 20.1 89 211 42.2 13 19 68.4 127 993
                New England 16 1035 357.6 5.5 21.5 93 206 45.1 4 10 40.0 101 822
                Seattle 16 1034 352.1 5.4 20.0 76 210 36.2 6 11 54.5 79 669
                Philadelphia 16 960 351.1 5.9 18.8 72 195 36.9 0 4 0 124 952
                San Diego 16 996 346.4 5.6 20.5 97 208 46.6 5 8 62.5 108 875

                As you can see the top ten offenses in the league all playoff teams no coincidence. except for kansas city cuz they have no D. We have the second lowest third down conversion rate. Mike Williams can improve dramatically. Last season we only had one viable option on third down and that was rod and every team we played know that. Look at san diego with their big target in Gates and the difference he made. Mike williams as a reciever could be that guy. in 2003 San Diego converted only 31 percent of their first downs. That is the difference of one player. obviously other factors are involved but the emergence of Gates cant be denied. 55 tdz 2004 38 2003

                Last year the broncos attempted more field goals than ANYBODY ELSE. Among the top ten teams listed only 2 others new england and philly was in the top ten in attempted field goals last season. But they dont have Jake Plummer either. You get my point. We have so many obstacles to overcome with our offense why not make it easier on ourselves.

                The other teams in the top ten in the 30's what are their teams weaknesses. Recievers. Catching the ball. the numbers dont lie. hawks dropped passes, eagles dropped passes.

                Its no shock the team with the best reciever in the league has the highest percentage of 3rd down conversions.
                Last edited by MilitantDBFan; 03-09-2005, 11:09 AM.
                A Wise Man Once Told Me Dont Argue With Fools Cuz People From a Distance Cant Tell Who is Who

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by LoufromLItt.
                  Although I agree with kiszla about the Mike Williams being a star player in the nfl, I cannot help but notice that he said Plummer lelie and bell are worse than leinart bush and williams... How dare he compare college players to the nfl, thats comparing apples to oranges.. I have read the post plenty of times, this guy always has his head up his azz.
                  I agree, and I'e always thought Kizla was terrible. If you go back and read his columns during the season, he always seemed to try and create controversy and make things larger than they were, probably just to gain notoriety, and there can only be one Woody Paige in the national media. If you want REAL Bronco insight, read Williamson's articles, he is a great beat writer. I tend to ignore Kizla, he doesn't think the game like Williamson or Saunders (also very good) or even Armstrong. Probably the only football writers to take seriously at the post is Williamson and Saunders.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by TXBRONC
                    Mili Williams is going to be gone in the top 10 to 15 maybe even the top five it will be virtually impossible to move that may spots in the draft to get him. Its not that I wouldn't mind having him but he's out of reach for us.

                    I also believe that if were going to be competitive the defense has to still be the priority, the offense isn't in as bad of shape.
                    This is entirely correct. Neither Kizla nor anyone advocating this has bothered to look at what it would cost, even if it were possible (which I doubt). It's just a fantasy article about how nice it would be if we could get Mike Williams. Yes, it would be nice. No, we could never do it.

                    Conclusion: This is NOT going to happen! Get used to it.

                    Pryce + 1st round #25 is worth about 720pts + 265pts = 985pts. The #7 pick of the 1st round is worth about 1500pts. It's not even close: check this link for draft values

                    And that's assuming that Pryce is worth the #1 pick in the 3rd round -- not necessarily the case (if some team offered their 3rd round pick for him it would be worth less than 265 pts.)

                    Broncos #1 pick (720pts) + #2 pick (330pts.) + Pryce = 1315 pts. It's STILL not close! Broncos #1 + #2 + #3 (compensatory pick at the end of 3rd round) + Pryce = around 1431pts (probably still not enough)!

                    Are you starting to get the picture?

                    And that assumes that a team would want to move down to #25! Very few teams would even consider such a move, even if the draft and trade values were equal.

                    So, we're talking about giving up at least 3 picks + Pryce to move up and get Mike Williams, IF we could find some team to trade with us and IF he were still available when we drafted.

                    You can now see why S*** like this doesn't happen too often. It's just too uncertain and difficult to pull off.

                    I'm not even going to bother to go into all the reasons why the other team wouldn't go for it, they're just too many.

                    Just consider whether the players they want in the draft will even be available at #25.

                    Even if we're willing to sacrifice the entire draft, it JUST WON'T HAPPEN! Period.
                    sigpic

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by bleedbluorange
                      Of course we can afford a rookie. They add money just to sign rookies.
                      Money is alloted by teams to sign rookies, in order to stay under the cap. They just don't "add" money. While the money is probably already been alloted, it probably doesn't include enough to bag a top ten guy. It is more likely that we could move into the teens and still afford a pick in that area. If we move in that range, and Williams or Troy Williamson is there, take 'em, otherwise, it would not be wise to go for broke into the top ten for a Mike Williams.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Cugel
                        This is entirely correct. Neither Kizla nor anyone advocating this has bothered to look at what it would cost, even if it were possible (which I doubt). It's just a fantasy article about how nice it would be if we could get Mike Williams. Yes, it would be nice. No, we could never do it.

                        Conclusion: This is NOT going to happen! Get used to it.

                        Pryce + 1st round #25 is worth about 720pts + 265pts = 985pts. The #7 pick of the 1st round is worth about 1500pts. It's not even close: check this link for draft values

                        And that's assuming that Pryce is worth the #1 pick in the 3rd round -- not necessarily the case (if some team offered their 3rd round pick for him it would be worth less than 265 pts.)

                        Broncos #1 pick (720pts) + #2 pick (330pts.) + Pryce = 1315 pts. It's STILL not close! Broncos #1 + #2 + #3 (compensatory pick at the end of 3rd round) + Pryce = around 1431pts (probably still not enough)!

                        Are you starting to get the picture?

                        And that assumes that a team would want to move down to #25! Very few teams would even consider such a move, even if the draft and trade values were equal.

                        So, we're talking about giving up at least 3 picks + Pryce to move up and get Mike Williams, IF we could find some team to trade with us and IF he were still available when we drafted.

                        You can now see why S*** like this doesn't happen too often. It's just too uncertain and difficult to pull off.

                        I'm not even going to bother to go into all the reasons why the other team wouldn't go for it, they're just too many.

                        Just consider whether the players they want in the draft will even be available at #25.

                        Even if we're willing to sacrifice the entire draft, it JUST WON'T HAPPEN! Period.
                        I'm suprised that the most recent go-for-broke strategy tried hasn't been brought up in this thread yet. The Saints and Ricky Williams should be enough of a warning sign to show you don't mortgage your future on one draft pick. It would be most wise to add picks, not subtract, ala Philadelphia and New England, the REAL model franchises.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          why does everyone seem to think we need another big name WR? i thought you all loved watts.
                          My Broncomania Adopt-a-Bronco: Rod Smith

                          Elway stops, loads up, throws deep down the middle of the field and Rod Smith's got it!

                          America is like your team, and if your not gonna root for your team then get the hell outta the stadium.

                          Madden Online Record 109-90 (7-3 L10)

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                          • #43
                            Thanks for the kind words militant. It could be done, I believe, though I think you and I are in a minority. I can't believe more people don't see the importance of having options out there for Jake. When Sharpe left Jake did well, but he did poorly at the say time. Mike Anderson is a redzone threat because of his strength but we need someone who can really make things happen out there.

                            Concerning Kiszla, his editorials are decidedly anti-Bronco. No matter what happened we were doomed. Whether we won or not. At first it was we were a bunch of pretenders who would never make it to the playoffs, then when it looked as though we would make it he backed off a bit and focused on other negative things. Like the middle finger. Usually I disagree with him. Two weeks ago he was saying to trade down and get a runningback. Two weeks before that it was a quarterback. I mean eventually someone who changes his tune so often will throw out a good idea.

                            P.S. I do love think Watts is great, but we need someone who will develop this year and Watts is a question mark for the next few years if you ask me.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by bleedbluorange
                              Of course we can afford a rookie. They add money just to sign rookies.

                              I think you are incorrect here, it is part of our cap. is it allocated a bit differently, but still part of our total cap.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by OhNoKoolAid
                                I'm suprised that the most recent go-for-broke strategy tried hasn't been brought up in this thread yet. The Saints and Ricky Williams should be enough of a warning sign to show you don't mortgage your future on one draft pick. It would be most wise to add picks, not subtract, ala Philadelphia and New England, the REAL model franchises.
                                Thanks for being a voice of reason!

                                Mike Williams is a good prospect but by no means is he a guarantee. The cost to trade up to get him would be extremely prohibitive. The several first and second round picks we'd have to throw in to move up into the #5 - #12 range would kill all kinds of potential future contributors for the Broncos. How many great receivers make their their teams Super Bowl caliber? How many touches per game does a wide receiver get? Even the best receivers start to have a tougher time when the field gets shorter in the red zone. Anyway, look these top 15 receivers this century that have not turned out to be the next Randy Moss (to borrow MilitantDBFan's comparison):

                                Larry Fitzgerald #3
                                Roy Williams #7
                                Reggie Williams #9
                                Lee Evans #13
                                Michael Clayton #15
                                Charles Rogers #2
                                Andre Johnson #3
                                Donte Stallworth #13
                                David Terrell #8
                                Koren Robinson #9
                                Rod Gardner #15
                                Peter Warrick #4
                                Plaxico Burress #8
                                Travis Taylor #10

                                Yes, there are some good players there. But there are also some duds. And how many of those good players pushed their team over the top? Hell, even Randy Moss didn't push his team over the top.

                                Also, I'd suggest that a really good tight end would be more important to our offense than a wide receiver. Our 3rd-down percentage & red zone offense were very good with Shannon Sharpe and a running back with a burst out of the backfield. Well, I think Bell will fill Portis's role this year so we'd be back in great shape if we could find a top tier tight end.

                                My point is that Mike Williams might be a good prospect but he's far from a sure thing. What if we traded our first round pick (in addition to other picks/players) to move up, drafted Williams and he does okay for us, but the team that takes our #25 pick drafts the next Randy Moss? Moss was only the #21 pick in his draft which shows just how much pre-draft analysts really know. And who knows what college player is going to step it up this year and be considered "the next Randy Moss" next year.

                                There's no need to make a desperation move in the draft when we have enough other needs to fill outside of receiver.
                                "You can't take the sky from me..."
                                ------
                                "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

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