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  • Jrhampton
    replied
    Originally posted by DPg2003
    I was debating over whether or not I wanted to respond to this post considering how many times I've addressed this topic, but I just couldn't resist.
    Not only did Walls start every single game in 2003, including the playoff game, but he started every game as our #1 CB. Deltha O'Neal was the #2 CB that year, but Herndon was moved from Nickel Back to starter due to O'Neal's inconsistent play that year. Willie Middlebrooks was being tried at FS and played Special Teams that entire season so there couldn't have been any bashing of his play at CB that year because he didn't play it.
    Saying that Herndon is best suited as a Nickel Back is the truth and it is in no way a slight to Herndon.
    I wasn't going to bring age into the discussion, but since you did I'll address it. Herndon is 28 and will 29 before the end of the season, while Walls is 25 and will be 26 before the end of the season. Herndon has peaked in terms of development while Walls is still raw and developing. Herndon had 4 years at Toledo and he bounced around the league before getting an opportunity with the Broncos in 2002. Walls went to JUCO for two seasons before ending up at Boston College for 2 years. He too signed with the Broncos in 2002, but he was a Rookie Free Agent.
    Herndon should be the more polished CB at this point in time considering that he has had more years of meaningful experience. Herndon is a solid player and I enjoyed having him on the team due to his "never say die" attitude, and I am happy that he got a nice payday, but I am even more ecstatic that Denver wasn't the one that gave it to him.
    I wasn't watching too much of Stokley in the playoff game because I was too busy watching our DB's chase Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark around the field.
    As I said earlier, Herndon should be more polished in his techniques considering how long he has had to work on it. He is a fiesty player, but he will get roasted and baked all season long in the pass happy NFC West. Herndon is not now, nor will he ever be a top tier CB, but he is a solid player that will give everything he has on every single snap. Whether or not is better than Lenny Walls at full strength remains to be seen, but we will find out real soon.
    Walls seperated his shoulder, rushed himself back to try to help the team, and continued to do so until the team made him go on the IR, and now he is being berated and labeled as injury prone?
    Herndon had a good, not great, season last year. Last year was the best Herndon had and I doubt that he will ever approach those numbers again. Herndon in no way, shape, or form outplayed Champ Bailey last season no matter how many passes he defensed or how good he looked covering teams #2 and #3 receivers.

    I liked Herndon and I liked the way he left everything he had on the field, but I am not sad that management decided to let him walk. The move to keep Walls over Herndon was not just a move based on what will happen this upcoming season, but it was clearly a move for the future of this team. Walls has heart and determination and he is still developing. He is working on adding muscle and I think the injury bug will be a non-issue with him this season.

    I will continue to stand behind my statement that Herndon is best suited as a Nickel Back, and we'll see whether or not I'm correct after this season.

    Great post should put this thread to bed.

    Points to you

    Leave a comment:


  • TXBRONC
    replied
    Originally posted by DPg2003
    I was debating over whether or not I wanted to respond to this post considering how many times I've addressed this topic, but I just couldn't resist.



    Not only did Walls start every single game in 2003, including the playoff game, but he started every game as our #1 CB. Deltha O'Neal was the #2 CB that year, but Herndon was moved from Nickel Back to starter due to O'Neal's inconsistent play that year. Willie Middlebrooks was being tried at FS and played Special Teams that entire season so there couldn't have been any bashing of his play at CB that year because he didn't play it.



    Saying that Herndon is best suited as a Nickel Back is the truth and it is in no way a slight to Herndon.

    I wasn't going to bring age into the discussion, but since you did I'll address it. Herndon is 28 and will 29 before the end of the season, while Walls is 25 and will be 26 before the end of the season. Herndon has peaked in terms of development while Walls is still raw and developing. Herndon had 4 years at Toledo and he bounced around the league before getting an opportunity with the Broncos in 2002. Walls went to JUCO for two seasons before ending up at Boston College for 2 years. He too signed with the Broncos in 2002, but he was a Rookie Free Agent.

    Herndon should be the more polished CB at this point in time considering that he has had more years of meaningful experience. Herndon is a solid player and I enjoyed having him on the team due to his "never say die" attitude, and I am happy that he got a nice payday, but I am even more ecstatic that Denver wasn't the one that gave it to him.




    I wasn't watching too much of Stokley in the playoff game because I was too busy watching our DB's chase Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark around the field.



    As I said earlier, Herndon should be more polished in his techniques considering how long he has had to work on it. He is a fiesty player, but he will get roasted and baked all season long in the pass happy NFC West. Herndon is not now, nor will he ever be a top tier CB, but he is a solid player that will give everything he has on every single snap. Whether or not is better than Lenny Walls at full strength remains to be seen, but we will find out real soon.



    Walls seperated his shoulder, rushed himself back to try to help the team, and continued to do so until the team made him go on the IR, and now he is being berated and labeled as injury prone?

    Herndon had a good, not great, season last year. Last year was the best Herndon had and I doubt that he will ever approach those numbers again. Herndon in no way, shape, or form outplayed Champ Bailey last season no matter how many passes he defensed or how good he looked covering teams #2 and #3 receivers.

    I liked Herndon and I liked the way he left everything he had on the field, but I am not sad that management decided to let him walk. The move to keep Walls over Herndon was not just a move based on what will happen this upcoming season, but it was clearly a move for the future of this team. Walls has heart and determination and he is still developing. He is working on adding muscle and I think the injury bug will be a non-issue with him this season.

    I will continue to stand behind my statement that Herndon is best suited as a Nickel Back, and we'll see whether or not I'm correct after this season.
    Nice post DPg. I don't get how so many of these guys missed the fact that Herndon wouldn't have even been starting had Walls never gotten hurt.

    Herndon has heart but so does Walls, as you mentioned he tried coming back twice from that shoulder injury just so he could play. Unfortunately for Walls he kept reinjuring his shoulder. Like you I dont see one season with an injury making Walls injury prone.

    I also agree as do many "experts" that Herndon is nickle back but not a starting corner in this league.

    Leave a comment:


  • DPg2003
    replied
    I was debating over whether or not I wanted to respond to this post considering how many times I've addressed this topic, but I just couldn't resist.

    Originally posted by DBF
    Wrong.Lenny Walls started starting during mid season...remember the constant bashing of Willie Middlebrooks and especially Deltha O Neal that year?Though they weren't as doing as bad as they were meant out to be...
    Not only did Walls start every single game in 2003, including the playoff game, but he started every game as our #1 CB. Deltha O'Neal was the #2 CB that year, but Herndon was moved from Nickel Back to starter due to O'Neal's inconsistent play that year. Willie Middlebrooks was being tried at FS and played Special Teams that entire season so there couldn't have been any bashing of his play at CB that year because he didn't play it.

    Originally posted by DBF
    I am tired of people saying Herndon is better suited as a nickel back...

    He played solid all season long.He didn't give up many yards after catch.He batted many passes down,he played tough coverage,he had great footwork,he has good hands and could of grabbed many more INT's if we just had some pass rush,he is one of the best tackling CB's in the game,he's young he's only 27 years old,he was playing alongside Champ Bailey,3/4 of the games he had passes thrown to him more then Bailey,and didn't he handle that well?He barely gave up any 100 recieving yard games...
    Saying that Herndon is best suited as a Nickel Back is the truth and it is in no way a slight to Herndon.

    I wasn't going to bring age into the discussion, but since you did I'll address it. Herndon is 28 and will 29 before the end of the season, while Walls is 25 and will be 26 before the end of the season. Herndon has peaked in terms of development while Walls is still raw and developing. Herndon had 4 years at Toledo and he bounced around the league before getting an opportunity with the Broncos in 2002. Walls went to JUCO for two seasons before ending up at Boston College for 2 years. He too signed with the Broncos in 2002, but he was a Rookie Free Agent.

    Herndon should be the more polished CB at this point in time considering that he has had more years of meaningful experience. Herndon is a solid player and I enjoyed having him on the team due to his "never say die" attitude, and I am happy that he got a nice payday, but I am even more ecstatic that Denver wasn't the one that gave it to him.


    Originally posted by DBF
    Did you see Stokely own Herndon in the Playoff game?No.Because Herndon was covering Stokely like they were glued together.
    I wasn't watching too much of Stokley in the playoff game because I was too busy watching our DB's chase Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark around the field.

    Originally posted by DBF
    He was 3rd in tackles in 03 for us,he had 68 tackles this season.23 batted passes this year.

    He's agressive,top notch tackler,and has great footwork.

    He is better then Lenny Walls,he prove it this year.
    As I said earlier, Herndon should be more polished in his techniques considering how long he has had to work on it. He is a fiesty player, but he will get roasted and baked all season long in the pass happy NFC West. Herndon is not now, nor will he ever be a top tier CB, but he is a solid player that will give everything he has on every single snap. Whether or not is better than Lenny Walls at full strength remains to be seen, but we will find out real soon.

    Originally posted by DBF
    If he's better as a nickel back,the why did he have such a great season starting every game this year?Another plus is,he never suffers a major injury.Unlike Lenny Walls....

    Kelly Herndon is no underdog.Not after this season.If people actually watched his games,instead of judging what other fans say and what management said before the season,they would actaully realize how good Herndon was.

    It's silly to say the man is better suited as a Nickel Back.Especially when he started all 16 games and barely had any problems covering recievers....

    Some even say that Herndon had a better season then Bailey in terms of play.
    Walls seperated his shoulder, rushed himself back to try to help the team, and continued to do so until the team made him go on the IR, and now he is being berated and labeled as injury prone?

    Herndon had a good, not great, season last year. Last year was the best Herndon had and I doubt that he will ever approach those numbers again. Herndon in no way, shape, or form outplayed Champ Bailey last season no matter how many passes he defensed or how good he looked covering teams #2 and #3 receivers.

    I liked Herndon and I liked the way he left everything he had on the field, but I am not sad that management decided to let him walk. The move to keep Walls over Herndon was not just a move based on what will happen this upcoming season, but it was clearly a move for the future of this team. Walls has heart and determination and he is still developing. He is working on adding muscle and I think the injury bug will be a non-issue with him this season.

    I will continue to stand behind my statement that Herndon is best suited as a Nickel Back, and we'll see whether or not I'm correct after this season.

    Leave a comment:


  • TXBRONC
    replied
    Originally posted by Interceptor
    I dont see any blue chippers at positions we need unless we get into the top ten, and that wont happen, I see dropping down for 2nd rounders, maybe even throw Trevor Pryce in for 2nd rounder too. Just not enough in this draft to pay 1st round money to.
    To date Shanahan has never traded out of the first round, although there is first time for everything.

    Leave a comment:


  • OrangeShadow
    replied
    safety at round 2 or 3 wouldnt bother me

    Leave a comment:


  • Interceptor
    replied
    Tradin down

    I dont see any blue chippers at positions we need unless we get into the top ten, and that wont happen, I see dropping down for 2nd rounders, maybe even throw Trevor Pryce in for 2nd rounder too. Just not enough in this draft to pay 1st round money to.

    Leave a comment:


  • SeanTaylor36
    replied
    Do you just choose not to post it but you guys signed brown

    Leave a comment:


  • Dean
    replied
    Yes, losing Herndon to the Seahawks will hurt a little . He was an average to maybe slightly above average cornerback over the last 2 years. He would, however, be a very solid nickle back. Covering #3 recievers and with his run support he could have been a real plus. As a #1 or #2 corner I just don't see him as a superior player.

    Leave a comment:


  • TXBRONC
    replied
    Originally posted by DBF
    Wrong.Lenny Walls started starting during mid season...remember the constant bashing of Willie Middlebrooks and especially Deltha O Neal that year?Though they weren't as doing as bad as they were meant out to be...

    I am tired of people saying Herndon is better suited as a nickel back...

    He played solid all season long.He didn't give up many yards after catch.He batted many passes down,he played tough coverage,he had great footwork,he has good hands and could of grabbed many more INT's if we just had some pass rush,he is one of the best tackling CB's in the game,he's young he's only 27 years old,he was playing alongside Champ Bailey,3/4 of the games he had passes thrown to him more then Bailey,and didn't he handle that well?He barely gave up any 100 recieving yard games...

    Did you see Stokely own Herndon in the Playoff game?No.Because Herndon was covering Stokely like they were glued together.

    He was 3rd in tackles in 03 for us,he had 68 tackles this season.23 batted passes this year.

    He's agressive,top notch tackler,and has great footwork.

    He is better then Lenny Walls,he prove it this year.

    If he's better as a nickel back,the why did he have such a great season starting every game this year?Another plus is,he never suffers a major injury.Unlike Lenny Walls....

    Kelly Herndon is no underdog.Not after this season.If people actually watched his games,instead of judging what other fans say and what management said before the season,they would actaully realize how good Herndon was.

    Some even say that Herndon had a better season then Bailey in terms of play.

    It's silly to say the man is better suited as a Nickel Back.Especially when he started all 16 games and barely had any problems covering recievers....
    I'm sorry but you are mistaken. Walls was a starting ALL of the 2003 season. It was Herndon that stepped in for O'Neal in '03. Also I base my opinion of Herndon on what I have seen of him personally and how he's been evaluated and projects out as nickle back. The ONLY reason he started this year is because Walls was injured that is fact. Also so what he started all 16 game, if hadn't been on the team someone else would have. Finally, any player having one season where he is injured doesn't make him injury prone. If has another injury riddled season like this past one then that is fare criticism.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jrhampton
    replied
    Originally posted by DBF
    Wrong.Lenny Walls started starting during mid season...remember the constant bashing of Willie Middlebrooks and especially Deltha O Neal that year?Though they weren't as doing as bad as they were meant out to be...

    I am tired of people saying Herndon is better suited as a nickel back...

    He played solid all season long.He didn't give up many yards after catch.He batted many passes down,he played tough coverage,he had great footwork,he has good hands and could of grabbed many more INT's if we just had some pass rush,he is one of the best tackling CB's in the game,he's young he's only 27 years old,he was playing alongside Champ Bailey,3/4 of the games he had passes thrown to him more then Bailey,and didn't he handle that well?He barely gave up any 100 recieving yard games...

    Did you see Stokely own Herndon in the Playoff game?No.Because Herndon was covering Stokely like they were glued together.

    He was 3rd in tackles in 03 for us,he had 68 tackles this season.23 batted passes this year.

    He's agressive,top notch tackler,and has great footwork.

    He is better then Lenny Walls,he prove it this year.

    If he's better as a nickel back,the why did he have such a great season starting every game this year?Another plus is,he never suffers a major injury.Unlike Lenny Walls....

    Kelly Herndon is no underdog.Not after this season.If people actually watched his games,instead of judging what other fans say and what management said before the season,they would actaully realize how good Herndon was.

    Some even say that Herndon had a better season then Bailey in terms of play.

    It's silly to say the man is better suited as a Nickel Back.Especially when he started all 16 games and barely had any problems covering recievers....
    Stats other than tackles and even that one is tough to determine who they tackled for CB are hard to use as a ruler. Maybe passes defended but even that is misleading. The only ones that know for sure are the coaches grading the film.

    If the CB is getting beat alot he gets alot of tackles. If he is playing the number 2 WR he may be getting alot of tackles, especialy if the Qb's are not thowing at the #1 WR against your #1 CB.

    Walls beat out delta for the # 1 spot and herndon played #2 WR most of that year.

    That is the history prior to last year. Last year, I remember seeing herndon trying to catch his WR, alot because he was beat he was usually in the trailing position. Almost everyime I saw someone getting the long pass it was his number and #28 that came into TV screen when the camera zoomed out.

    I'm glad he is getting big bucks in SEA and hope he will do fine and will invest his money well, but I suspect that SEA soon will find out what the DEN coaches already, know he is an emergency #2 or nickle back at best.

    Leave a comment:


  • Broncosinindy
    replied
    i have seen a few mocks that drop pac man jones to us if this happened do you pass or take?

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  • PLUMMERFAN16
    replied
    Originally posted by BVP
    Really? I thought his speed was pretty good in the couple games I watched him play in college. What is his 40 time?
    He's been posting some 4.5 times. He put up a 4.49 and a 4.52 at Miami's Pro Day, but he ran consistently in the 4.5 at the Combine. That's too slow to be an "elite" corner today.
    Last edited by GIVEME6; 03-28-2005, 12:09 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BVP
    replied
    Originally posted by PLUMMERFAN16
    No way would I draft Antrel Rolle. I'd take Carlos Rogers or Adam Jones over him. Rolle may be a physical corner, but he doesn't have the speed needed to lineup on most WRs in the NFL so his ability to press the receiver would be moot since he has no "make up speed". If someone were to make him a FS/SS, I think he would rival Ed Reed's playmaking ability. He has a nose for the ball, but he just doesn't have the speed IMO.
    Really? I thought his speed was pretty good in the couple games I watched him play in college. What is his 40 time?

    Leave a comment:


  • PLUMMERFAN16
    replied
    No way would I draft Antrel Rolle. I'd take Carlos Rogers or Adam Jones over him. Rolle may be a physical corner, but he doesn't have the speed needed to lineup on most WRs in the NFL so his ability to press the receiver would be moot since he has no "make up speed". If someone were to make him a FS/SS, I think he would rival Ed Reed's playmaking ability. He has a nose for the ball, but he just doesn't have the speed IMO.

    Leave a comment:


  • rcsodak
    replied
    Originally posted by Aija
    If we draft a Cornerback with our first pick. I've been looking at the moves this team is making and I think I have an idea why they didnt resign herndon. I think herndon would undoubtedly be deserving of decent money given the fact that when he's played he has performed well plus he can stay healthy. With walls though they have bargaining room due to the fact that he's always hurt and teams sort of stay clear of that.

    I think they kept the cheaper guy and also a guy that wont really insist on being a starter due to the fact that he didnt play last year and hardly any the year before. So now they go out draft a top tier corner back and have him push Lenny in camp for the job.

    I may be wrong but the D Line seems to be coming along just fine and we have alot of options there, for example wether we keep pryce or not and if chucky moves to a DE .
    Well....I disagree.
    How did bringing in a top-tier CB work out last year?
    Without a pass rush, you could have 7 cb's, and the qb will still pick your D apart.
    I would bet that D line will get addressed before CB.....

    Leave a comment:

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