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Who would you bring in at QB during the offseason, and why?

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  • Originally posted by mozzerpete View Post

    The Texans and Watson sure seem to be in a pickle.

    I'm unsure where I would rank Watson, but it would most likely be behind:
    Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers, Brady, Prescott, Murray, and maybe Tannehill/Roethlisberger/Jackson.
    If that's the list, I'd rank him 3 or 4. The debate is with Josh Allen.

    Comment


    • It will be interesting to see if Paton is using this as a prove it year for Lock and Fangio, or will he be aggressive and try to get Watson. If he doesn't have to get rid of talent, Watson and this young offense could be very dangerous quickly.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post

        If that's the list, I'd rank him 3 or 4. The debate is with Josh Allen.
        Brady, Murray, tannehill and Ben lmaooooo......this says a lot....i guess I look at things more football minded than some...we all have our own opinions.
        Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

        Comment


        • Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson, Russell, Prescott/Allen.
          Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post
            Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson, Russell, Prescott/Allen.
            Can't say I disagree. Brady would get consideration from me, because I think he still has it, but no one will convince me there's a better combination than Evans, Brown, Godwin, and Gronkowski in the NFL.

            Regardless of where he's ranked though, Watson is a 25 year old franchise quarterback. That alone warrants a massive haul.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

              Equating what Peyton did for us or what Tom Brady is doing for the Bucks, with the situation surrounding Watson is totally off. We cannot discuss that Watson has physical skills that are better than what Peyton brought to Denver or what Brady brought to Tampa.
              First thing is that we did not give up draft capital to get Peyton and neither did Bucks for Brady - that is HUGE.
              Secondly both Peyton and Brady went into their new teams and started teaching ex. DT how to run routes and for Brady to teach a team that it takes something much different to have playoff success than to win a few games. Brady throuhgout has had teams that did not look good in september and october but which you did not want to meet at the end of the season. Watson is clearly a primadonna that does not build his team up. Irrespective of how great he might be there is a reason that his team lost most one score games and ended up as a bottom feeder with a statistically great QB.
              Burning our drafts, and the money for other players for someone that give us possibility of Jake Plummer kind of results is way to steep.
              While I don't like Matt Stafford's history of loosing, he is only 32 and could come a lot cheaper and does not seem to have primadonna tendensies, but what we really need is someone that can teach our young guys to win, and there are few of the Brady caliper.
              I never said it was exactly the same situation, rather I was agreeing with IB that sometimes acquiring star players is worth the effort. Its benefits outweigh its cost. In this case, Watson could be the game-changer for this team, and his value could outweigh any trade compensation.

              Many were unsure about acquiring Manning, and it paid off. Many were unsure about Brady's value at this stage....and it has seemingly paid off. Acquiring Watson, at the going rate, might be the move that catapults this team from a below 500 entity, for 4 plus years (as they had a poor latter part of the 2106 season), to a long term threat. So I understand your analysis, but it does not apply to what I was agreeing to....the premise again is making a big move. Big moves take some guts but more important, vision.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by mozzerpete View Post

                Let me try again:

                Beastlykronk asserted Watson would elevate Denver as Manning supposedly did.

                Yet, Denver didn't win a Super Bowl because of Manning's "Star Wars Offense."

                Therefore, it doesn't matter if Watson is the second coming of Peyton Manning.
                But the chiefs just won the super bowl because of Mahomes heroics and look at the 4 QBs still in, all great franchise QBs with great skill players around them. Defense wins 1 championship, as evidenced by the 85 Bears, 2000 Ravens, and 2015 Broncos, the Bucs, the Seahawks, etc. Having a great offense will get you in the hunt more consistently than a great defense will. If you don’t think Watson makes this team a playoff team then I don’t know what to tell you.

                You say the conversation would be different if it was Mahomes? Maybe not you, but someone did. Why is that? Mahomes is not the QB Watson is no matter what the stats say. He’s great don’t get me wrong, but he benefits from having Hill and Kelce much as Alex Smith did before Mahomes took over. There are things he does that no other QB could get away with because of the offense around him. Watson would put up thoseWatson was a one man offense in Houston, there was no running game, his best WR statistically accumulated 1/3 of his yardage and 2/3 of his TDs in 3 games. The defense rarely held up their end of the bargain.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post

                  If that's the list, I'd rank him 3 or 4. The debate is with Josh Allen.
                  I'd place Watson higher, but his 4-12 record, current trade distraction, and 4-year / 156M contract make me uneasy.

                  Rodgers and Brady offer the type of leadership Manning afforded Denver.
                  (Enter Roethlisberger and Tannehill.)
                  I'd build around either QB then eventually draft the next Mahomes for the low rookie salary.

                  Prescott's injury and Spotrac's valuation of 36.8M could hinder future cap plans, so I'd
                  probably move him down some.

                  Murray earned me tons of fantasy points , and he's on a rookie deal, so that helps a lot.

                  Jackson has grown on me, and he's on a rookie salary.

                  I understand why you and others would prefer Watson, but I'd go a different route.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

                    But the chiefs just won the super bowl because of Mahomes heroics and look at the 4 QBs still in, all great franchise QBs with great skill players around them. Defense wins 1 championship, as evidenced by the 85 Bears, 2000 Ravens, and 2015 Broncos, the Bucs, the Seahawks, etc. Having a great offense will get you in the hunt more consistently than a great defense will. If you don’t think Watson makes this team a playoff team then I don’t know what to tell you.

                    You say the conversation would be different if it was Mahomes? Maybe not you, but someone did. Why is that? Mahomes is not the QB Watson is no matter what the stats say. He’s great don’t get me wrong, but he benefits from having Hill and Kelce much as Alex Smith did before Mahomes took over. There are things he does that no other QB could get away with because of the offense around him. Watson would put up thoseWatson was a one man offense in Houston, there was no running game, his best WR statistically accumulated 1/3 of his yardage and 2/3 of his TDs in 3 games. The defense rarely held up their end of the bargain.
                    Go back to your post in question:

                    You likened Watson to Manning (Star Wars), not Watson and Mahomes.

                    I simply pointed out Miller willed the SB win, not Manning.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by mozzerpete View Post

                      Go back to your post in question:

                      You likened Watson to Manning (Star Wars), not Watson and Mahomes.

                      I simply pointed out Miller willed the SB win, not Manning.
                      So Mahomes doesn’t post star wars numbers? He only averaged 4 TDs a game last season in the playoffs. Miller “willed” 1 super bowl win in his entire career, he hasn’t been able to will us to a winning record since. Dominant defenses do not sustain success, offenses do and if you want to consistently make the playoffs you need a franchise QB. Franchise QBs do not grow on trees, there is an elite one seemingly available with a reasonable contract and you don’t want him because of a few draft picks that may or may not pan out and his contract which would be well below market value in 21 and never more than 1/6th of the total cap after that.


                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by mozzerpete View Post

                        A mod deleted my reply to your post for unknown reasons,
                        and I'm too lazy to re-write it all.

                        Therefore, I'll only respond to one of your points:

                        "That's not what beast said you twisted his word"

                        He stated Houston lost 8 games by less than a score.
                        You claim Watson is a game-changer.

                        I'm surprised a "young top-5 elite franchise" "game-changer" QB left 8 games on the field.
                        If you have a question about a mod action, please PM any mod or start a thread in Community Issues. Thanks.


                        To all: Thread is going to be cleaned. Please keep the personal stuff out.
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                        • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

                          So Mahomes doesn’t post star wars numbers? He only averaged 4 TDs a game last season in the playoffs. Miller “willed” 1 super bowl win in his entire career, he hasn’t been able to will us to a winning record since. Dominant defenses do not sustain success, offenses do and if you want to consistently make the playoffs you need a franchise QB. Franchise QBs do not grow on trees, there is an elite one seemingly available with a reasonable contract and you don’t want him because of a few draft picks that may or may not pan out and his contract which would be well below market value in 21 and never more than 1/6th of the total cap after that.

                          "So Mahomes doesn’t post star wars numbers?"
                          When did I state Mahomes does or doesn't post "Star Wars" numbers?

                          "He only averaged 4 TDs a game last season in the playoffs."
                          Mahomes is a beast, and I wish Denver had drafted him.

                          "Miller “willed” 1 super bowl win in his entire career,"
                          So then, why did you try to appropriate Miller's SBMVP performance to Manning's (nonexistent) Star Wars O?

                          "he hasn’t been able to will us to a winning record since."
                          Watson, a "young top-5 elite franchise QB," coming off a 4-12 record doesn't help your position.

                          "Dominant defenses do not sustain success,"
                          I'm sure Steel Curtain fans would disagree with you, but then again, I never made the point you're refuting.

                          "offenses do and if you want to consistently make the playoffs you need a franchise QB."
                          I never stated franchise QBs aren't important.

                          "Franchise QBs do not grow on trees,"


                          "there is an elite one seemingly available with a reasonable contract"
                          The bounty for Watson's rights coupled with his 2nd-highest contract value (Mahomes) doesn't seem reasonable to me, given he left 8 winnable games on the field.

                          "and you don’t want him because of a few draft picks that may or may not pan out"
                          It's not just about draft picks; it's everything associated with those picks, from rookie salaries to depth.

                          "and his contract which would be well below market value in 21"
                          There's no guarantee Watson will win Lombardis in Denver without a supporting cast like Manning's.

                          "and never more than 1/6th of the total cap after that."
                          GM Paton will need to be extremely creative in re-signing our talent and signing FA talent, sans high draft selections.

                          What is your plan for a potential disgruntled-Watson who will most likely demand a trade out of Denver?
                          (Let me guess, a no-trade clause).

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by mozzerpete View Post

                            "So Mahomes doesn’t post star wars numbers?"
                            When did I state Mahomes does or doesn't post "Star Wars" numbers?

                            "He only averaged 4 TDs a game last season in the playoffs."
                            Mahomes is a beast, and I wish Denver had drafted him.

                            "Miller “willed” 1 super bowl win in his entire career,"
                            So then, why did you try to appropriate Miller's SBMVP performance to Manning's (nonexistent) Star Wars O?

                            "he hasn’t been able to will us to a winning record since."
                            Watson, a "young top-5 elite franchise QB," coming off a 4-12 record doesn't help your position.

                            "Dominant defenses do not sustain success,"
                            I'm sure Steel Curtain fans would disagree with you, but then again, I never made the point you're refuting.

                            "offenses do and if you want to consistently make the playoffs you need a franchise QB."
                            I never stated franchise QBs aren't important.

                            "Franchise QBs do not grow on trees,"
                            ​​

                            "there is an elite one seemingly available with a reasonable contract"
                            The bounty for Watson's rights coupled with his 2nd-highest contract value (Mahomes) doesn't seem reasonable to me, given he left 8 winnable games on the field.

                            "and you don’t want him because of a few draft picks that may or may not pan out"
                            It's not just about draft picks; it's everything associated with those picks, from rookie salaries to depth.

                            "and his contract which would be well below market value in 21"
                            There's no guarantee Watson will win Lombardis in Denver without a supporting cast like Manning's.

                            "and never more than 1/6th of the total cap after that."
                            GM Paton will need to be extremely creative in re-signing our talent and signing FA talent, sans high draft selections.

                            What is your plan for a potential disgruntled-Watson who will most likely demand a trade out of Denver?
                            (Let me guess, a no-trade clause).
                            I likened Watson in our offense to the Star Wars offense, yes and since Mahomes puts up similarly ridiculous numbers, he is in that realm of comparison.

                            Watson has put up similar numbers to Mahomes the past 2 seasons with less talent around him.

                            Never tried to appropriate the Super Bowl win to the Star Wars offense, I was trying to make the point that a great offense is a more consistent path to the playoffs and thus the super bowl than a dominant defense.

                            Watson was 24-13 prior to this season in which he played with an abysmal defense and a mediocre supporting cast. Was Rodgers not a top 5 QB when he went 6-9-1 2 seasons ago? Was Matt Ryan not a top QB when he went 4-12 in 2013? Drew Brees when he put up 3 straight losing seasons? Wins and losses aren’t solely on your QB.

                            The steel curtain was 40+ years ago and a much different era. There isn’t a defense that can win multiple Super Bowls anymore, the legion of boom couldn’t do it, the no fly zone couldn’t even make it to the playoffs after their lone dominant season.

                            You haven’t said it but if you don’t think Watson is a franchise QB then I don’t know what to tell you.

                            2 first round picks, a second, and some players is not unreasonable for a franchise QB. 3 first and 2 seconds still wouldn’t be unreasonable. You can still build a team without top picks, many of which would be towards the end of those rounds anyway. His contract wouldn’t be the second highest if he were traded here. It isn’t even the second highest if he isn’t traded, but if he is his cap hit drops to 19th as of now, 5th in 2022, and 4th in 2023 and both of those seasons will be surpassed and he’ll likely end up falling.

                            We don’t have a franchise QB and you’re worried about rookie salaries and depth? We have enough depth as is to survive the next 2 seasons. Even if we traded Chubb, we still have Miller (pending investigation) and Reed who led the team in sacks. It’ll hurt but you can develop pass rushers later in the draft. Even if we traded Fant, we have AOK who has the same athletic profile as Fant. Even if we trade Risner we have an experienced backup in Schlottman and a talented 2nd round guy in Muti. Jones would hurt but even then Williams flashed in his limited time, Agim is a young talented player, Purcell is the rock on our dline, and we can resign Harris, and again you can develop quality dlinemen with later picks. We have a couple of WRs that can replace Patrick.

                            Watson would have a great supporting cast here. He wouldn’t need a dominant defense like Manning did. We’d have a better running game, oline, and the WR group should be pretty close to what we had with Manning as Watson would make all our guys look better.

                            Why would Paton have to get creative? We can free up anywhere from 25 to 50 mil depending on how he views the team along with the 17 mil that rolls over. That’s more than enough to afford Watson’s 10 mil cap hit next season and build a competitive team around him.

                            Why would Watson agree to a trade here and then demand another trade? That doesn’t make any sense.

                            Comment


                            • In my opinion, Stafford and Darnold would be too high a price to be paid short and long term. Stafford would be ideal. He is be a better option most likely costing us less draft capital. He would give the team and Lock 2 years to figure out if there's a future there. Bring him along like Rivers or Rodgers. Another option could be Fitzmagic, but that would be more in a mentor role than starting role. I think Shurmur isn't the right fit but that's for another thread!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

                                I likened Watson in our offense to the Star Wars offense, yes and since Mahomes puts up similarly ridiculous numbers, he is in that realm of comparison.

                                Watson has put up similar numbers to Mahomes the past 2 seasons with less talent around him.

                                Never tried to appropriate the Super Bowl win to the Star Wars offense, I was trying to make the point that a great offense is a more consistent path to the playoffs and thus the super bowl than a dominant defense.

                                Watson was 24-13 prior to this season in which he played with an abysmal defense and a mediocre supporting cast. Was Rodgers not a top 5 QB when he went 6-9-1 2 seasons ago? Was Matt Ryan not a top QB when he went 4-12 in 2013? Drew Brees when he put up 3 straight losing seasons? Wins and losses aren’t solely on your QB.

                                The steel curtain was 40+ years ago and a much different era. There isn’t a defense that can win multiple Super Bowls anymore, the legion of boom couldn’t do it, the no fly zone couldn’t even make it to the playoffs after their lone dominant season.

                                You haven’t said it but if you don’t think Watson is a franchise QB then I don’t know what to tell you.

                                2 first round picks, a second, and some players is not unreasonable for a franchise QB. 3 first and 2 seconds still wouldn’t be unreasonable. You can still build a team without top picks, many of which would be towards the end of those rounds anyway. His contract wouldn’t be the second highest if he were traded here. It isn’t even the second highest if he isn’t traded, but if he is his cap hit drops to 19th as of now, 5th in 2022, and 4th in 2023 and both of those seasons will be surpassed and he’ll likely end up falling.

                                We don’t have a franchise QB and you’re worried about rookie salaries and depth? We have enough depth as is to survive the next 2 seasons. Even if we traded Chubb, we still have Miller (pending investigation) and Reed who led the team in sacks. It’ll hurt but you can develop pass rushers later in the draft. Even if we traded Fant, we have AOK who has the same athletic profile as Fant. Even if we trade Risner we have an experienced backup in Schlottman and a talented 2nd round guy in Muti. Jones would hurt but even then Williams flashed in his limited time, Agim is a young talented player, Purcell is the rock on our dline, and we can resign Harris, and again you can develop quality dlinemen with later picks. We have a couple of WRs that can replace Patrick.

                                Watson would have a great supporting cast here. He wouldn’t need a dominant defense like Manning did. We’d have a better running game, oline, and the WR group should be pretty close to what we had with Manning as Watson would make all our guys look better.

                                Why would Paton have to get creative? We can free up anywhere from 25 to 50 mil depending on how he views the team along with the 17 mil that rolls over. That’s more than enough to afford Watson’s 10 mil cap hit next season and build a competitive team around him.

                                Why would Watson agree to a trade here and then demand another trade? That doesn’t make any sense.
                                I'm going to skip some of your points because you continue to refute points that I never made.

                                "I likened Watson in our offense to the Star Wars offense,"

                                2013 Broncos (13-3)
                                Peyton Manning (Career Year, First-Team All-Pro, Pro Bowl)
                                68.3% completion
                                5477 yards
                                55 tds
                                10 ints

                                Lost Super Bowl 8-43 vs. Seattle Seahawks

                                You claim Watson would continue Manning's Star Wars-O in Denver,
                                yet, it never led to a Lombardi. #58

                                Denver would be wise to take a more balanced and less future-taxing QB approach.
                                ... (Elway + TD + OL = SB win) ... (Manning + Miller + D = SB win)
                                Given Broncos' history, I doubt Watson (4-12) would win a Lombardi without help in Denver.

                                "2 first round picks, a second, and some players is not unreasonable for a franchise QB. 3 first and 2 seconds still wouldn’t be unreasonable."

                                In an attempt to understand your position better:
                                If you are GM Paton, what is your BEST and FINAL offer to Houston for Watson?

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