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Don't blow this opportunity to draft in the top 10 on any position other than QB.

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  • Don't blow this opportunity to draft in the top 10 on any position other than QB.

    Time to stop farting around with drafting the BPA when the team doesn't have a HOF/Franchise quality QB. The Broncos are drafting in the top 10, which is a great opportunity to move up and grab a good QB candidate. Blow it on another position like they did with Chubb, and the Broncos will continually circle the drain in the NFL toilet of crap teams. When Chubb was drafted, Allen, Rosen, and Jackson were still on the board. The Broncos had a 66% chance of success, had they gone QB.

    Chubb's not leading the Broncos to any strong post season showing. Allen and Jackson already have.

  • #2
    I feel the same... get a parson....who sill struggle bc he doesn’t pass coverage....or get a corner.....still won't make the playoffs. We need a qb simply as that and not any qb 32 years or older either.
    Until we get a TRUE not name "Lock" qb we will miss the playoffs and be average at best! I'm E2DS and I approve this message! "AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW, NOW YA KNOW."

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    • #3
      I sort of agree. If the team truly believes there is a QB worthy of taking in the top 10, then go for it. Drafting a QB in the top 10 just because you're there gives you guys like Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, etc.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post
        Time to stop farting around with drafting the BPA when the team doesn't have a HOF/Franchise quality QB. The Broncos are drafting in the top 10, which is a great opportunity to move up and grab a good QB candidate. Blow it on another position like they did with Chubb, and the Broncos will continually circle the drain in the NFL toilet of crap teams. When Chubb was drafted, Allen, Rosen, and Jackson were still on the board. The Broncos had a 66% chance of success, had they gone QB.

        Chubb's not leading the Broncos to any strong post season showing. Allen and Jackson already have.
        Who's saying they would have developed or even made it this far with Denver. it also takes more then a QB to win in this league. I doubt adding Allen or Jackson would have changed much. especially if we are still flipping through OCs like we have been. Jackson would also struggle in a system that asks him to pass more. he and the ravens are great running at the ball. when ever Jackson is forced to pass they seem totstufflle.

        Also I don't see how adding one of the better young Pass Rushers that Offensive Coordinators have to game plan against as a waste of a top 10 pick. we got a starter who will be in the pro-bowl for multiple years from now. has amazing technique for his age and is a huge freak athlete. to say Chubb is a waste of a time cause we have had a bunch of a terrible pick for a 7-8 year point and is lacking depth. We need to hit on some more drafts to really become good again. it takes more then 1 player to win in the nfl.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Kyousukeneko View Post

          Who's saying they would have developed or even made it this far with Denver. it also takes more then a QB to win in this league. I doubt adding Allen or Jackson would have changed much. especially if we are still flipping through OCs like we have been. Jackson would also struggle in a system that asks him to pass more. he and the ravens are great running at the ball. when ever Jackson is forced to pass they seem totstufflle.

          Also I don't see how adding one of the better young Pass Rushers that Offensive Coordinators have to game plan against as a waste of a top 10 pick. we got a starter who will be in the pro-bowl for multiple years from now. has amazing technique for his age and is a huge freak athlete. to say Chubb is a waste of a time cause we have had a bunch of a terrible pick for a 7-8 year point and is lacking depth. We need to hit on some more drafts to really become good again. it takes more then 1 player to win in the nfl.
          First, nobody can say with 100% certainty that had the team brought in Allen or Jackson that it would have been successful. However, we can say with 100% certainty that by not bringing them in, the team stood no chance of exploring what the Broncos could've done with them and at least had a chance of being successful.

          Chubb a waste? No. Very few are a 100% waste. However, the Broncos record while drafting BPA is self-evident. They stink. The idea that the team can vault itself to post season success without a top QB is baseless, and has continually proven itself a problem. And yet people still support that same, failed approach. Absolutely comical...

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          • #6
            i dont agree with the chubb pick but Kyo is correct. To sit and say its just drafting a guy to solve an issue is a vast oversimplification of how it actually works. First you have to be able to draft good talent. Then you not only have to develop them but also find the best way to utilize them. We have lacked quite a bit in all 3 departments over the years.
            Glen Haven Fire

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            • #7
              Originally posted by armedequation View Post
              i dont agree with the chubb pick but Kyo is correct. To sit and say its just drafting a guy to solve an issue is a vast oversimplification of how it actually works. First you have to be able to draft good talent. Then you not only have to develop them but also find the best way to utilize them. We have lacked quite a bit in all 3 departments over the years.
              Well, if you never try to draft that talent, there's no way for you to find out what they can turn into, right? Also, tell me what staff hits on all of their player analysis? How 'bout the percentage of players that succeed and excel in the NFL? We do know that the success rate drops as you go deeper into the draft.

              My points have been: 1) The Broncos, like most other football teams, need a special QB to dominate consistently. 2) The Broncos have maintained a BPA approach that has proven itself a failure in bringing the team to dominance without that special QB. 3) The Broncos, like all other football teams, misjudge players based on their analysis. 4) Since we can't rely on the Broncos staff of hitting on that special QB, we should be relying on simple stats that say if you draft a QB early, you stand a better chance of success than if you wait until later in the draft.

              Here's an excerpt from an article that looked at draft success by position and round:

              Now let's look at little closer at the QBs.
              • Of the 122 QBs drafted in the last 10 years only 25 have been starters for at least half of their career.
              • The first round gives you a 63% chance of finding a starter.
              • The second round gives you a 27% chance, the third a 17% chance, then it really plummets from there with 8% in the fourth and 6% in the 7th.
              That's from:

              https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/...draft-by-round

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              • #8
                Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post

                Well, if you never try to draft that talent, there's no way for you to find out what they can turn into, right? Also, tell me what staff hits on all of their player analysis? How 'bout the percentage of players that succeed and excel in the NFL? We do know that the success rate drops as you go deeper into the draft.

                My points have been: 1) The Broncos, like most other football teams, need a special QB to dominate consistently. 2) The Broncos have maintained a BPA approach that has proven itself a failure in bringing the team to dominance without that special QB. 3) The Broncos, like all other football teams, misjudge players based on their analysis. 4) Since we can't rely on the Broncos staff of hitting on that special QB, we should be relying on simple stats that say if you draft a QB early, you stand a better chance of success than if you wait until later in the draft.

                Here's an excerpt from an article that looked at draft success by position and round:



                That's from:

                https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/...draft-by-round
                I don't think both of these statements are good or factual. you need more then a special QB to dominate consistently. just having an elite QB does not make an instant Super Bowl contender. if that was the case then Dan Marino would have won multiple superbowls. you need a team that has talent. that has been drafting well for years that has been signing the right FA. there is more then just getting a QB and then we become a super bowl contender. or to dominate consistently. Just throwing our picks at a QB is terrible idea. especially if Lawrence Wilson and Fields are gone. I really don't like Lance. I don't think Trask has the skills to be truly elite so I wouldn't touch him in the first, and then there is a Mac Jones who has the intelligence of a starter but the average at best Arm strength and won't have the weapons he did at Bama. either way I don't think he is a first round talent. so I feel especially if he have to reach for a guy like Trask or Jones at 9 it would be a huge disappointment. Lance's system does not translate to the nfl nor does his 1 read and run among other things. he is a completely developmental prospect with a high upside. which is what we have in Lock. either way I don't see any one outside of Lawrence Wilson and Fields possibly hitting Franchise Material. I also don't think any one other then those 3 would be an upgrade. also having a Rookie QB unless they are super special probably won't improve our QB spot. there will be a learning curve among adjusting to the speed of the nfl and other things. Also saying a BPA approach is a failure and not the way to build a team is highly incorrect. you should always draft BPA. you always need to add those Blue Chip Prospects cause they normally don't hit free agency and you won't have a chance to take them later or sign them in fa, or trade for them. There is more to Dominating Consistently then the QB spot.
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                • #9
                  who said dont draft talent? our problem for many years was who they drafted. it was pretty evident that lynch was bpa. you cant tell me that they fully vetted out lynch to determine he was worth moving up for and drafting. It came out later that lynch didnt put in the work, couldnt break down film and didnt seem to care (consistantly late for meetings, usually first to leave practice etc). So yes they can draft bpa but they need better people scouting these prospects and making the drafting decisions. They have gotten better the last few years at this. Lynch is one example...there are numerous others.

                  then you have to develop them. We have not developed a whole lot of players. And when we have, we havent been able to keep them.

                  we shouldnt be relying on statistics alone. thats not what a good organization does. fix scouting, fix developing and get coaches who want to do what it takes to get the best out of their players.


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
                    I don't think both of these statements are good or factual. you need more then a special QB to dominate consistently. just having an elite QB does not make an instant Super Bowl contender....There is more to Dominating Consistently then the QB spot.
                    Of course there is. However, selecting a QB with this prime pick doesn't prevent them from filling other needs on the team. It's not like if you select a QB automatically you can't improve other areas of the team.

                    In case you missed my original post and the point of this thread, the idea is taking advantage of a great draft position to possibly move up to an even better draft position with the intent to fill the most important and influential position that is common to dominant franchises. Factually, this is correct. Look at the past 20 years of Super Bowl champions, and even the post season. 75% of the time the champion had an HOF QB. This is nothing new, and nor is it non-factual. Look at all 4 teams in the conference championships, or even all teams in the divisional championships. They were full of the best QBs in the league.

                    Using this prime draft position opportunity, which doesn't happen every year, to go after a prime QB makes perfect sense. Statistically the chances of finding that guy improves dramatically the higher you draft. It also doesn't mean sell the farm to do it (I wouldn't suggest that). The Broncos are in a great position to take advantage of this opportunity, which doesn't happen every draft. The team would still be left with draft picks, and they could continue to use those to build other areas of the team.

                    You can apply your personal evaluation of who in this QB draft class would be a good QB. Trouble is, you, along with even the NFL teams with their staffs, continually miss. They just miss with lower frequency the higher they draft. Use this draft position to draft some BPA at another position on the team, and the Broncos will statistically be more likely to continue circling the drain, just as the have been doing for years. Chubb didn't do it. Miller alone didn't, either...it needed Manning on the team to right the ship, draw in the right players, and put them in a position to do well for 5 years as a post-season threat.
                    Last edited by DiveInstructor; 01-27-2021, 03:39 PM.

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                    • #11
                      I don’t think it’s wise to draft a quarterback unless you believe he’s the guy.

                      If the Broncos think they have found that guy, by all means, draft him.

                      You don’t draft a guy just to be drafting a guy.
                      My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
                      You Mad Bro?
                      Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post

                        Of course there is. However, selecting a QB with this prime pick doesn't prevent them from filling other needs on the team. It's not like if you select a QB automatically you can't improve other areas of the team.

                        In case you missed my original post and the point of this thread, the idea is taking advantage of a great draft position to possibly move up to an even better draft position with the intent to fill the most important and influential position that is common to dominant franchises. Factually, this is correct. Look at the past 20 years of Super Bowl champions, and even the post season. 75% of the time the champion had an HOF QB. This is nothing new, and nor is it non-factual. Look at all 4 teams in the conference championships, or even all teams in the divisional championships. They were full of the best QBs in the league.

                        Using this prime draft position opportunity, which doesn't happen every year, to go after a prime QB makes perfect sense. Statistically the chances of finding that guy improves dramatically the higher you draft. It also doesn't mean sell the farm to do it (I wouldn't suggest that). The Broncos are in a great position to take advantage of this opportunity, which doesn't happen every draft. The team would still be left with draft picks, and they could continue to use those to build other areas of the team.

                        You can apply your personal evaluation of who in this QB draft class would be a good QB. Trouble is, you, along with even the NFL teams with their staffs, continually miss. They just miss with lower frequency the higher they draft. Use this draft position to draft some BPA at another position on the team, and the Broncos will statistically be more likely to continue circling the drain, just as the have been doing for years. Chubb didn't do it. Miller alone didn't, either...it needed Manning on the team to right the ship, draw in the right players, and put them in a position to do well for 5 years as a post-season threat.
                        I mean you could also say if my research was right the last team to win a super bowl with out a defense that was top 10 in the league for points allowed was when the Ravens won in 2012. there is a lot more then getting a good QB to contend in the nfl.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kyousukeneko View Post

                          I mean you could also say if my research was right the last team to win a super bowl with out a defense that was top 10 in the league for points allowed was when the Ravens won in 2012. there is a lot more then getting a good QB to contend in the nfl.
                          You can look at all of the teams that have won that Super Bowl, and look at their QB's and offenses. 75% are HOF QBs. Football is a team sport. You have a great offense with a game-changing QB (in a positive way...not like Lock...LOL), it's much easier to bring in great players and position a defense that doesn't have to take huge risks to win the game. The Buccaneers had a 29th ranked defense in 2019. Brady appears, turns the offense around, and voila, the Bucs defense looks awesome.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DiveInstructor View Post

                            You can look at all of the teams that have won that Super Bowl, and look at their QB's and offenses. 75% are HOF QBs. Football is a team sport. You have a great offense with a game-changing QB (in a positive way...not like Lock...LOL), it's much easier to bring in great players and position a defense that doesn't have to take huge risks to win the game. The Buccaneers had a 29th ranked defense in 2019. Brady appears, turns the offense around, and voila, the Bucs defense looks awesome.
                            i don't get how brady has anything to do with them drafting Anotinio Winfield JR and there defense maturing and growing. its not like they signed any new starters for 2020. i mean Tom Brady being there did not cause any one to resign. the real difference is probably INTs and the fact that the Tampa Bays Defense is pretty young and still developing.
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                            • #15
                              outside of a few pieces you can say that tampa has spent a few years building their team through the draft. its more of an example of them having a team already built and then going and getting their qb and the few pieces they needed

                              tristan wirfs
                              devin white
                              vita vea
                              antione winfield
                              tyler johnson
                              chris godwin

                              they also got some fa in
                              barrett
                              suh
                              paul

                              it didnt just happen overnight when brady arrived
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