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  • Look, ultimately, I think we're going to roll with Lock this year... I've stated that in numerous threads.

    If that's the case, I hope he succeeds. I just don't believe he will.

    Paton said he's going to bring in competition. You don't do that if you believe that Lock is your guy.

    James Winston or Sam Darnold would have been real legitimate competition.

    Teddy Bridgewater, Alex Smith, Gardner Minshew and Nick Foles are not competition for someone you believe can be your franchise QB. They are nothing more than a backup.

    Right now, the only legitimate competition you can bring in is one of the top QB's in the draft.

    And for all the flack I've been getting about thinking Lock isn't the answer, remember, neither has the Broncos. That's why they inquired about trading for Stafford. That's why I'm sure they looked at trading for Watson before the lawsuits came about. Obviously Paton has serious questions about Lock.

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    • If I'm wrong and Lock ends up being better than Darnold, I'll own it.

      Simple as that.

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      • Originally posted by sra84 View Post
        Look, ultimately, I think we're going to roll with Lock this year... I've stated that in numerous threads.

        If that's the case, I hope he succeeds. I just don't believe he will.

        Paton said he's going to bring in competition. You don't do that if you believe that Lock is your guy.

        James Winston or Sam Darnold would have been real legitimate competition.

        Teddy Bridgewater, Alex Smith, Gardner Minshew and Nick Foles are not competition for someone you believe can be your franchise QB. They are nothing more than a backup.

        Right now, the only legitimate competition you can bring in is one of the top QB's in the draft.

        And for all the flack I've been getting about thinking Lock isn't the answer, remember, neither has the Broncos. That's why they inquired about trading for Stafford. That's why I'm sure they looked at trading for Watson before the lawsuits came about. Obviously Paton has serious questions about Lock.
        There are two different ways to interpret "competition" here. The first, as you are alluding to, is potential upside. The second, is winning games. If the only thing you watch about Sam Darnold is on script plays, where everything is on time and clean, you'll probably see a potential franchise quarterback. If the only thing you watch are the off script plays, where he has to hold the ball, scan the field, and think, you'll see one of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL. A team like Carolina, who presumably have a more quarterback friendly and talented offense than NY, probably believe that they'll get more of the former than the latter. Do you really think the situation Lock was in last season would've been an ideal one for Darnold to succeed in?

        As for the Minshew comparison. If by "competition" we're talking about winning games, then yes, I would rather have Gardner Minshew quarterbacking my team right now than Sam Darnold. Why? Because when it's not perfect, I can trust Minshew to make high percentage plays and take care of the football. Furthermore, he has shown the ability to make difficult plays in bad situations. When I see Darnold continue doing college things in year three that I rarely saw Minshew doing in year one, I have to ask myself if "upside", "potential", or "ceiling" can win football games.

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        • Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post

          There are two different ways to interpret "competition" here. The first, as you are alluding to, is potential upside. The second, is winning games. If the only thing you watch about Sam Darnold is on script plays, where everything is on time and clean, you'll probably see a potential franchise quarterback. If the only thing you watch are the off script plays, where he has to hold the ball, scan the field, and think, you'll see one of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL. A team like Carolina, who presumably have a more quarterback friendly and talented offense than NY, probably believe that they'll get more of the former than the latter. Do you really think the situation Lock was in last season would've been an ideal one for Darnold to succeed in?

          As for the Minshew comparison. If by "competition" we're talking about winning games, then yes, I would rather have Gardner Minshew quarterbacking my team right now than Sam Darnold. Why? Because when it's not perfect, I can trust Minshew to make high percentage plays and take care of the football. Furthermore, he has shown the ability to make difficult plays in bad situations. When I see Darnold continue doing college things in year three that I rarely saw Minshew doing in year one, I have to ask myself if "upside", "potential", or "ceiling" can win football games.
          Yes, I do think Darnold would have fared better in Denver than Drew did. I think we would have won more games, especially against Tennessee and the second game at Kansas City. And he wouldn't have put us in the spot that Drew did against New Orleans which would have been another winnable game against Taysom Hill.

          Minshew had better receivers and a better running game than Darnold had with the Jets. Minshew is nothing more than a backup. If he was as good as people make him out to be, the Jags would have won more games and wouldn't be taking Trevor Lawrence.

          If Minshew is real competition for Lock, that's sad.

          I think Darnold is better than Lock. And we'll find out soon enough.

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          • Originally posted by sra84 View Post

            Yes, I do think Darnold would have fared better in Denver than Drew did. I think we would have won more games, especially against Tennessee and the second game at Kansas City. And he wouldn't have put us in the spot that Drew did against New Orleans which would have been another winnable game against Taysom Hill.

            Minshew had better receivers and a better running game than Darnold had with the Jets. Minshew is nothing more than a backup. If he was as good as people make him out to be, the Jags would have won more games and wouldn't be taking Trevor Lawrence.

            If Minshew is real competition for Lock, that's sad.

            I think Darnold is better than Lock. And we'll find out soon enough.
            Rather then just put all of Darnold's bad play on the New York Jets, let's just look at the facts. As a rookie, Gardner Minshew clearly outplayed Nick Foles. As a rookie, Drew Lock outplayed Joe Flacco. Who exactly has Sam Darnold outperformed? Josh McCown?

            It would be foolish to presume that Sam Darnold will not be better in Carolina. I fully expect him to be, because it's a better situation than NY. I won't go along with the idea that the Jets are responsible for all of his problems, because it simply isn't true. If he corrects those issues and becomes a franchise quarterback, then you had the foresight to see that he would realize his potential. I'll give you all the credit for that. On the other hand, if Drew Lock properly addresses his issues this offseason, I wouldn't be surprised to see him look as good or better than Darnold does. That's not something I would put money on, but it wouldn't shock me at all. This is simply because I don't have the same belief in Sam Darnold that you do.

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            • Go look at the Jets offensive depth chart from last year and compare it to the Broncos.

              Darnold had nothing to work with.

              Drew had much more talent around him.

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              • I hope things work out for Darnold in Carolina.

                I hope things work out for Lock in Denver, assuming he isn’t replaced.

                I don’t know that Darnold could have come to Denver and succeeded with Shurmur and Fangio. I have my doubts that Lock can overcome those obstacles as well. At least Lock will have the advantage of continuity for this season. Maybe he’ll do enough to save the coaching staff from being let go.
                My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
                You Mad Bro?
                Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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                • Originally posted by broncolee View Post
                  I hope things work out for Darnold in Carolina.

                  I hope things work out for Lock in Denver, assuming he isn’t replaced.

                  I don’t know that Darnold could have come to Denver and succeeded with Shurmur and Fangio. I have my doubts that Lock can overcome those obstacles as well. At least Lock will have the advantage of continuity for this season. Maybe he’ll do enough to save the coaching staff from being let go.
                  I don't think he is going to be replaced. I fully expect a QB to be picked too though. How great of an investment would it be to draft a QB like Lance or Fields!?!?!? If Lock comes out shows his worth and proves to have progressed and wins games (because he would start ahead of either) then they have 2 QBs with TONS of appeal to other teams.

                  Now we have 2 golden tickets that they could get a huge draft load for. If Drew stinks it up and loses games then we make the switch and see what the rookies got.....QB is absolutely necessary and most important to be good, no exceptions and you keep looking until you find one. If we have 2 then we have draft capital to improve

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                  • Bleacher report fan mock draft has Broncos drafting Trey Lance st #9. About 1200 votes so far and 54% going for Lance.....just saying

                    .... edit....

                    Micah Parsons closing the gap, going to be close
                    Last edited by JvDub95; 04-09-2021, 06:34 AM.

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                    • I think the 49ers are going to take Justin Fields. I don't believe the Mac Jones hype and I think Trey Lance is too raw for San Francisco to trade as much as they did. A move that big for a QB with a lower ceiling (Jones) and a QB who is a big development project (Lance)? I just don't see it. The 49ers are more in a win now mode. They were in the Super Bowl two years ago and only fell off due to injuries.

                      I think Fields is the better QB between him, Jones and Lance. I think his ceiling is as high as anyone's, with the exception of, maybe Lawrence.

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                      • The 49ers will be attending the 2nd pro days of both Justin Fields and Trey Lance. Maybe they haven't made a final decision yet?

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                        • Originally posted by Bootleg View Post
                          The 49ers will be attending the 2nd pro days of both Justin Fields and Trey Lance. Maybe they haven't made a final decision yet?
                          I agree with you that there seems to be evaluation still occurring. I believe Mac Jones is the type of guy the Shanahan's would like so I think he is still a real possibility (and maybe likely outcome IMO).

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                          • Originally posted by Bootleg View Post
                            The 49ers will be attending the 2nd pro days of both Justin Fields and Trey Lance. Maybe they haven't made a final decision yet?
                            I don't think they would have made the trade if they didn't have their decision made.

                            To me, the connection to Mac Jones just seems like a deliberate smokescreen.

                            I hope I'm wrong. If they took Jones, it would increase our chances of getting Fields.

                            ​​​​​

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                            • Originally posted by myoung View Post

                              I agree with you that there seems to be evaluation still occurring. I believe Mac Jones is the type of guy the Shanahan's would like so I think he is still a real possibility (and maybe likely outcome IMO).
                              But Jones is not a very mobile or athletic QB. And San Francisco plays in a division with top end defensive players. Aaron Donald, JJ Watt, etc.

                              I think Fields is better suited for them.

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                              • Originally posted by sra84 View Post

                                But Jones is not a very mobile or athletic QB. And San Francisco plays in a division with top end defensive players. Aaron Donald, JJ Watt, etc.

                                I think Fields is better suited for them.
                                I think your point is well taken. Given that the 49ers like to run so many plays where the QB is on the move. That tells me that Wilson is really their best bet, but I think he is not going to be on the table. I think that makes Fields an obvious choice. For the record, I dislike Jones and hope we don't touch him. I am super excited to have the 49ers draft him (maybe that is wishful thinking on my part). This is an area where I think the 49ers feel differently than my interpretation.

                                That being said, I think there are a few other factors that least me towards them picking Mac Jones (other than me wanting other players to drop to us)

                                1. Perception or reality, there is a view is ready to go now. Honestly I don't see it, but there is enough people saying it I think there is something to it
                                2. Jones moves through his projections quickly. While throwing on the run is critical, so is a read and react mentality in the QB
                                3. Jones is very accurate from the pocket. I think the pre snap motion for the 49ers provides opportunities for a quick decision short pass offense. I think most people perceive that would be right down Jones alley. Get the ball out quickly to Deebo and Ayuik and let them run.

                                I do think the last couple of items on my list are perceived weaknesses of Fields.


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