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How Does The San Fran / Miami / Philadelphia Trade Change Things For The Broncos?

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  • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

    So I see Carolina gave them a sixth-round pick in 2021 and a second- and fourth-rounder in 2022.

    Anyway, there goes my Plan B, to include Lock and him competing (A was Watson).
    Not only did they give up those picks but they picked up his 5th year option, which, under the new CBA, is now fully guaranteed at the moment it's picked up. They view Darnold as their starting QB for 2021 and likely 2022.

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    • Originally posted by DENVERSB50CHAMP View Post
      Now that Sam Darnold just got traded to the Carolina Panthers what does this now mean for Denver?
      After Atlanta made it very clear they are accepting offers, I think it means Paton has been on the phone today

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      • Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post

        Not only did they give up those picks but they picked up his 5th year option, which, under the new CBA, is now fully guaranteed at the moment it's picked up. They view Darnold as their starting QB for 2021 and likely 2022.
        Jets are amassing some good quality draft capital....

        2021 - The 2nd and 23rd picks (round one), 2nd rounder, 2-3rd rounders

        2022 - 2-1sts, 2-2nds, 3rd

        That's 10 selections in the first 3 rounds in '21 and '22, including 4 first rounders!

        If Wilson pans out, and they draft wisely, The Jets could be onto something. Still IFs.

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        • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

          Jets are amassing some good quality draft capital....

          2021 - The 2nd and 23rd picks (round one), 2nd rounder, 2-3rd rounders

          2022 - 2-1sts, 2-2nds, 3rd

          That's 10 selections in the first 3 rounds in '21 and '22, including 4 first rounders!

          If Wilson pans out, and they draft wisely, The Jets could be onto something. Still IFs.
          I would mind making it bigger by offering 3 firsts for Wilson. Since the Darnold trade, I think that is off the table but I can dream...

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          • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

            Jets are amassing some good quality draft capital....

            2021 - The 2nd and 23rd picks (round one), 2nd rounder, 2-3rd rounders

            2022 - 2-1sts, 2-2nds, 3rd

            That's 10 selections in the first 3 rounds in '21 and '22, including 4 first rounders!

            If Wilson pans out, and they draft wisely, The Jets could be onto something. Still IFs.
            And that's the problem, picks are good, but only if you hit on them. The Jets and Dolphins have a ton of draft ammunition to load up, but they both need to make the picks count.

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            • Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post

              And that's the problem, picks are good, but only if you hit on them. The Jets and Dolphins have a ton of draft ammunition to load up, but they both need to make the picks count.
              why does that make me think of the raiders in last years draft?
              Glen Haven Fire

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              • Originally posted by myoung View Post

                After Atlanta made it very clear they are accepting offers, I think it means Paton has been on the phone today
                Unless someone is in love with 4 different Qbs I see this trade not happening until draft day.

                There is some talk about Pitts being the actual best player in the draft in terms of being able to be an All Pro asap. Maybe someone tries to get him but that deal will probably not be as good as one being offered if someone is trying to get a QB.
                Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                • Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post

                  And that's the problem, picks are good, but only if you hit on them. The Jets and Dolphins have a ton of draft ammunition to load up, but they both need to make the picks count.
                  Yes.....there are many facets to building a good team. Acquiring draft capital can be one of them, IF acquired wisely. Same goes for the selection of players. Just because you have the capital does not mean you will be a winner. Another facet, and this is where your player assessments/development program are critical. I've made the same comment before about teams building up their draft weaponry only to not see them improve much in the next few years. Did not draft wisely.

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                  • Originally posted by Hadez View Post

                    Unless someone is in love with 4 different Qbs I see this trade not happening until draft day.

                    There is some talk about Pitts being the actual best player in the draft in terms of being able to be an All Pro asap. Maybe someone tries to get him but that deal will probably not be as good as one being offered if someone is trying to get a QB.
                    Pitts intrigues me more and more as someone who made it in the top 10 discussion and seems to be gaining momentum. But TEs are seldom drafted this high, so I think a number of GMs are either concerned about the value of a TE this early (and may go WR instead) OR are now falling in love with him!

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                    • Originally posted by myoung View Post

                      I would mind making it bigger by offering 3 firsts for Wilson. Since the Darnold trade, I think that is off the table but I can dream...
                      I am kind of concerned that if we go QB early, we better choose the best possible option (other than Lawrence). Because I just don't see the point of using a high level 1st round pick on a QB, when you have a young QB starter, though one we are not 100% confident in. That just seems like too many resources in young QBs, given both may not pan out. AND given that drafting a QB that high (9th or trade up) is costly but also puts extra pressure on GMs to stick by that draftee as long as possible. Therefore Lock is really an extra part, and the hope would be that he either improves rapidly, or turns into decent trade bait down the road. And....I hate using too much capital on young QBs, when we have other positions of need. In such case, the odds of a stud non QB becoming a quality starter are very good. If you keep missing out on quality non QBs, you will pay for it.

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                      • Originally posted by CanDB View Post

                        I am kind of concerned that if we go QB early, we better choose the best possible option (other than Lawrence). Because I just don't see the point of using a high level 1st round pick on a QB, when you have a young QB starter, though one we are not 100% confident in. That just seems like too many resources in young QBs, given both may not pan out. AND given that drafting a QB that high (9th or trade up) is costly but also puts extra pressure on GMs to stick by that draftee as long as possible. Therefore Lock is really an extra part, and the hope would be that he either improves rapidly, or turns into decent trade bait down the road. And....I hate using too much capital on young QBs, when we have other positions of need. In such case, the odds of a stud non QB becoming a quality starter are very good. If you keep missing out on quality non QBs, you will pay for it.
                        I entered the draft season with a very similar view to you. I was actually hoping for a trade down to pick up more players and run it back with Lock.

                        Given that we seem to be very publicly involved in every QB discussion, I feel like something is likely going to happen. I then started reviewing the options in more depth and have my preferences. All things being equal I would have preferred standing pat, but I think that ship may have sailed already. If not, Lock has surely seen enough rumors.

                        the part of the argument I get is that our Division is loaded at QB and I am not sure having a mediocre option will be fun for the next decade.

                        as you have probably seen, I was a big fan of paying for Watson. I am still not opposed to it. I would trade for him now on a discounted rate (if the Texans would trade him). I know that doesn't align with your thoughts, but I think there is a decent chance this is handled in civil court or ends up a being plead to a series of misdemeanors. I could be wrong, but it is a risk reward proposition IMO.

                        After reviewing the draft picks, Wilson makes throws that no one else does. I would pay a big price for Wilson or Lawrence (3 firsts) . I would pay a small amount for Fields (future first). I really like all 3 of them, but I feel like Wilson is much closer to Lawrence than he is to Fields. In fact, I might be in the camp that would take Wilson before Lawrence, but I like Lawrence a lot and haven't looked at much of him lately.

                        I agree it is a lot to spend, but I feel like something is going to happen. I hope it is not Bridgewater. I am not sure it is great to swap out a guy that is bottom 5 with potential for a guy that is a bottom 10-12 starter. Not sure that helps.

                        Comment


                        • If you want to bet on a QB early in the draft do it with the QB that has the big arm and high ceiling not the high floor guy. Wilson has the biggest arm, but I’m not a fan of his footwork and I think it’ll take a season at least to get it where it needs to be. Fields has a good arm with some major wheels, just needs some work on the processing side which will probably take at least a season to get where it needs to be. Lance is somewhere in between those 2 in terms of arm strength and running ability. He changed his footwork up for his pro day which I’m not a fan of and I don’t like the windows he had to throw through in college. I think he needs the most time to develop.

                          Fields would be my choice. If nothing else you know you can run him into the ground with a ball control offense and be in the mix for the playoffs. If he develops he could be the best dual threat ever. Wilson has a lot of the same habits Lock has so I’d rather just keep Lock if it was between them. Jones probably could come in and start immediately but I’m not sure he ever becomes an elite level QB due to his limitations. He could overcome them for sure, but I wouldn’t risk a top 10 pick on a QB with that type of arm strength personally.

                          Unless we take Jones, I think Lock is the starter next season. Hopefully he runs with the job and never looks back. He has everything he needs to be successful, it’s just on him now.

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                          • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
                            If you want to bet on a QB early in the draft do it with the QB that has the big arm and high ceiling not the high floor guy. Wilson has the biggest arm, but I’m not a fan of his footwork and I think it’ll take a season at least to get it where it needs to be. Fields has a good arm with some major wheels, just needs some work on the processing side which will probably take at least a season to get where it needs to be. Lance is somewhere in between those 2 in terms of arm strength and running ability. He changed his footwork up for his pro day which I’m not a fan of and I don’t like the windows he had to throw through in college. I think he needs the most time to develop.

                            Fields would be my choice. If nothing else you know you can run him into the ground with a ball control offense and be in the mix for the playoffs. If he develops he could be the best dual threat ever. Wilson has a lot of the same habits Lock has so I’d rather just keep Lock if it was between them. Jones probably could come in and start immediately but I’m not sure he ever becomes an elite level QB due to his limitations. He could overcome them for sure, but I wouldn’t risk a top 10 pick on a QB with that type of arm strength personally.

                            Unless we take Jones, I think Lock is the starter next season. Hopefully he runs with the job and never looks back. He has everything he needs to be successful, it’s just on him now.
                            I assume the footwork you are referring to with Wilson is the occasional tendency to throw off his back foot. Which Lock does and did also, but so did Favre and Mahomes coming out of college. Locks footwork problems go FAR past that. Wilson has a strong ability to climb the pocket, get himself on balance, and he can make every throw. His pocket presence far outweighs anything we have ever seen from Lock. Wilsons footwork weaknesses is not the same as Lock (but of course that is only my opinion... and maybe a few articles agree with me). His other risks are overextending the play, his size / injury history, and poor competition. His upside is obviously the most lively arm. Risk / reward scenario. If the team that drafts him, starts him day 1, I expect the first year will be rocky and almost reckless. But just like college, I would be willing to gamble that he stabilizes it in year 2-3.

                            Jones might be a starter level next year, but it is just as likely he is the second coming of Chad Pennington. He doesn't have the arm or athleticism of the other guys. Maybe the 49ers are lucky, and he is Matt Ryan, but they very well could be stuck with Pennington. Just as it is tough to evaluate Wilson because he played poor competition, might be tough to have a real read on Jones when he played with some of the best WRs of all time in a down year for SEC defenses. I see a ceiling that is not a top 5 guy, likely a top 10-15 range, but a floor that is a career backup that floats too many balls. Good thing he is likely going to a warm climate team. Hate to see that ball fly in Buffalo. Sounds like we agree on this one, although I might be more critical.

                            as with any year, the evaluation of QBs is a bit of a crap shoot. It will be fun to see how all 5 of these guys end up. I also wonder if a Mills or Mond surprises and becomes a quality starter.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by myoung View Post

                              I entered the draft season with a very similar view to you. I was actually hoping for a trade down to pick up more players and run it back with Lock.

                              Given that we seem to be very publicly involved in every QB discussion, I feel like something is likely going to happen. I then started reviewing the options in more depth and have my preferences. All things being equal I would have preferred standing pat, but I think that ship may have sailed already. If not, Lock has surely seen enough rumors.

                              the part of the argument I get is that our Division is loaded at QB and I am not sure having a mediocre option will be fun for the next decade.

                              as you have probably seen, I was a big fan of paying for Watson. I am still not opposed to it. I would trade for him now on a discounted rate (if the Texans would trade him). I know that doesn't align with your thoughts, but I think there is a decent chance this is handled in civil court or ends up a being plead to a series of misdemeanors. I could be wrong, but it is a risk reward proposition IMO.

                              After reviewing the draft picks, Wilson makes throws that no one else does. I would pay a big price for Wilson or Lawrence (3 firsts) . I would pay a small amount for Fields (future first). I really like all 3 of them, but I feel like Wilson is much closer to Lawrence than he is to Fields. In fact, I might be in the camp that would take Wilson before Lawrence, but I like Lawrence a lot and haven't looked at much of him lately.

                              I agree it is a lot to spend, but I feel like something is going to happen. I hope it is not Bridgewater. I am not sure it is great to swap out a guy that is bottom 5 with potential for a guy that is a bottom 10-12 starter. Not sure that helps.
                              I understand where you are going with this. You and I are very much aligned in wanting a quality QB to lead us into the future. Lets be clear, I was on The Watson train early, and I actually felt it might happen. I know Fantasy is not the correct gauge for QBs, but I had Watson a couple years back and he was very productive. He had Hopkins and Fuller to gather in his impressive passing, and he had amazing running ability. So going into 2020 I had him, Wilson and Prescott as my 1B choices, given I was not going after Mahomes as the 1A guy. Too expensive.

                              So given my fantasy history, and his age, and the fact he has experienced the playoffs, and so on....I was convinced that he was worth some big league capital, because a young, star QB is what you dream about.

                              Of course we know the next page of the story....which is not closed. But as you can appreciate, this is now about justice. And I believe that justice must be served. Though he is not guilty at this point, it does not look good. Therefore even though I understand your thoughts, I think you know that, at very least, the optics are not in his favour, nor any team that still pursues him. In the end, if he is innocent, he is absolutely fair game. But that looks to be months away at best.

                              And to close, I just don't like spending too much on a QB draft pick (as in moving up) given The Broncos will likely want that player to start sooner than later, and that means we have Lock to probably deal away. The fear I have is neither turn out to be true starters. Then we are back to square one, and after a lot of draft capital loss. I was leaning towards Darnold and Lock, which would have been cheaper and with no preference in the end, but that's gone. So it may come down to Lock or not Lock going into 2022. That too worries me, because it's another year, another draft dilemma, and so forth.

                              I really wanted Watson to be our guy....prior to the allegations. Maybe we can acquire Russ next year, or another quality vet. I just want stability at QB so that we can focus on non QB talent for a few years.
                              Last edited by CanDB; 04-07-2021, 02:33 PM.

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                              • Originally posted by myoung View Post

                                I assume the footwork you are referring to with Wilson is the occasional tendency to throw off his back foot. Which Lock does and did also, but so did Favre and Mahomes coming out of college. Locks footwork problems go FAR past that. Wilson has a strong ability to climb the pocket, get himself on balance, and he can make every throw. His pocket presence far outweighs anything we have ever seen from Lock. Wilsons footwork weaknesses is not the same as Lock (but of course that is only my opinion... and maybe a few articles agree with me). His other risks are overextending the play, his size / injury history, and poor competition. His upside is obviously the most lively arm. Risk / reward scenario. If the team that drafts him, starts him day 1, I expect the first year will be rocky and almost reckless. But just like college, I would be willing to gamble that he stabilizes it in year 2-3.

                                Jones might be a starter level next year, but it is just as likely he is the second coming of Chad Pennington. He doesn't have the arm or athleticism of the other guys. Maybe the 49ers are lucky, and he is Matt Ryan, but they very well could be stuck with Pennington. Just as it is tough to evaluate Wilson because he played poor competition, might be tough to have a real read on Jones when he played with some of the best WRs of all time in a down year for SEC defenses. I see a ceiling that is not a top 5 guy, likely a top 10-15 range, but a floor that is a career backup that floats too many balls. Good thing he is likely going to a warm climate team. Hate to see that ball fly in Buffalo. Sounds like we agree on this one, although I might be more critical.

                                as with any year, the evaluation of QBs is a bit of a crap shoot. It will be fun to see how all 5 of these guys end up. I also wonder if a Mills or Mond surprises and becomes a quality starter.
                                I’m more referring to how Wilson starts with his right foot back. He can do that in college because he had all day to throw and WRs getting a lot of separation. In the NFL he won’t have that and having that right foot back will disrupt the timing with him and his receivers especially as he goes through the inevitable growing pains of trying to figure out the speed of the game and figuring out how to read coverages. And I know guys like Rodgers, Brady, and Watson all do the right foot back but those guys already know what coverage the defense is in and how their guys are going to run their routes vs those coverages. Wilson can pull it off if he has a coach that’s mindful of it and designs/coaches his plays around it. But Shurmur didn’t do that with Lock last season and Lock was left hanging trying to figure it out on his own. Whether it’s taking a step off every drop or whatever there will be some timing issue, take a step off and the QB is early, try to keep the steps the same and the QB is late. It’s probably better to be early but that extra half second or so waiting for the receiver to get into or out of his break can create some indecisiveness in a young QB that may not be quite sure exactly what he’s looking at.

                                Jones, I want no part of. I do think he’ll probably start for whoever he’s drafted by and he may even look good for a time. But he’ll be surpassed by the other QBs at some point in their careers unless they just completely bottom out.

                                I prefer to keep my QBs the same as when the season ended. So it’s still Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, Lance, and I don’t really care after those 4. If Newman had played this season, I’d probably have him 3rd but as of now he’s just an intriguing day 2/3 QB that could be a franchise guy more so than any other day 2/3 QB.

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