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  • #91
    Originally posted by samparnell View Post

    Do you mean Pitts?
    Yup. I was at work on my cell with people trying to pester me.


    *Upon Edit: I do have TE on the brain though, in my defense. I want 2TE to be our base set and I want to use our TE's more in general because I think it will help our Offense out a lot.
    Last edited by listopencil; 04-15-2021, 03:30 PM.
    Adopt-A-Bronco: Jonathon Cooper

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    • #92
      Originally posted by broncolee View Post
      I think the idea of Pitts not being a blocker has been pretty much dispelled by those who have watched him.

      He’s a willing blocker.

      As for Justin Fields, I hope there aren’t any Bill Polian Jr.’s running around here.
      I'm a willing blocker too. Doesn't mean I can do it.
      Adopt-A-Bronco: Jonathon Cooper

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      • #93
        Originally posted by myoung View Post

        You really think that none of these guys have real sources and information (true or false) is not flowing around?

        I agree it is really funny, but find it unlikely that the only thing behind the Jones rumors are Chris Simms statement. Information (both true and false) is flying around. Most of us only have access to a portion of it

        I have my disagreements with McShay and Kiper but I am really grateful guys like that are out there. I am also confident they have access to more information than I do, but it is questionable as to whether it makes them better at projecting the draft
        In the last few days several reporters (I'll use Benjamin Allbright just to name one) have said that sources around the league believe the 49ers are taking Fields, and that there's no chance they traded up for Jones. And several reporters (including Adam Schefter) who said the 49ers were taking Jones have no backed off those statements.

        Those guys absolutely have sources, but if Lynch and Shanahan aren't even telling the coaches or scouts on the team, what are the odds those sources actually know what they're talking about as opposed to just guessing?

        Fields makes complete sense for the Shanahan offense. And with the reports that Shanahan wanted a QB that could allow him to open up the playbook it makes way more sense that they'd be drafting a QB who can run the boot action off of stretch, and who can really move around, rather than a QB who is more of a pocket QB and doesn't give them the same mobility.
        Last edited by Butler By'Note; 04-15-2021, 06:50 PM.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post

          In the last few days several reporters (I'll use Benjamin Allbright just to name one) have said that sources around the league believe the 49ers are taking Fields, and that there's no chance they traded up for Jones. And several reporters (including Adam Schefter) who said the 49ers were taking Jones have no backed off those statements.

          Those guys absolutely have sources, but if Lynch and Shanahan aren't even telling the coaches or scouts on the team, what are the odds those sources actually know what they're talking about as opposed to just guessing?

          Fields makes complete sense for the Shanahan offense. And with the reports that Shanahan wanted a QB that could allow him to open up the playbook it makes way more sense that they'd be drafting a QB who can run the boot action off of stretch, and who can really move around, rather than a QB who is more of a pocket QB and doesn't give them the same mobility.
          I have said more than once that I really don't disagree with your analysis. I sure hope Fields drops but, like you, I think he would be a good fit in that offense. I think the people that have concerns about him are over analyzing and focusing on weaknesses that were on display in a couple of games. Fields is my third favorite QB in this draft and if he is on the board at 4, I hope we trade up to get him.

          The only part of your statements I disagree with are the belief that this all "seems" to have started with statements by Chris Simms. I think there is more discussion going on than that.

          And if the 49ers brass is has really talked to no one, as rumors we have said suggested, then no one should be putting much stock into Allbright claiming that "source around the league believe there is no chance they trade up for Jones". It goes both ways, if they are truly that tight lipped then no one really knows what they are doing. It goes both ways.

          There is alot of misinformation out there from all sources. Like you I agree Fields would be a good pick. Unlike you, I think there is more to the Jones rumor than Chris Simms running his mouth and everyone blindly following.

          That is part why I love this time of year. It is always fun to see who is smokescreening and who is being straight.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by myoung View Post

            I have said more than once that I really don't disagree with your analysis. I sure hope Fields drops but, like you, I think he would be a good fit in that offense. I think the people that have concerns about him are over analyzing and focusing on weaknesses that were on display in a couple of games. Fields is my third favorite QB in this draft and if he is on the board at 4, I hope we trade up to get him.

            The only part of your statements I disagree with are the belief that this all "seems" to have started with statements by Chris Simms. I think there is more discussion going on than that.

            And if the 49ers brass is has really talked to no one, as rumors we have said suggested, then no one should be putting much stock into Allbright claiming that "source around the league believe there is no chance they trade up for Jones". It goes both ways, if they are truly that tight lipped then no one really knows what they are doing. It goes both ways.

            There is alot of misinformation out there from all sources. Like you I agree Fields would be a good pick. Unlike you, I think there is more to the Jones rumor than Chris Simms running his mouth and everyone blindly following.

            That is part why I love this time of year. It is always fun to see who is smokescreening and who is being straight.
            I hear you.

            The reason I said it all started with Chris Simms is because he started saying it on PFT immediately after the trade was made. Florio made a big deal about how Simms had said it. I'm sure more people have said it, and they probably didn't all get it from Simms, but he was the first one that claimed it, so I use him as the epicentre of it all.

            I'm not putting any more stock in what Allbright says than what anyone is saying, because I think they're all guessing. But from what I can tell it seems more like the media thinks it'll be Jones and people with teams around the league think it'll be Fields. It would be funny if it turned out to be Lance and everyone was wrong.

            I love the hype surrounding the draft, but I get third of the smokescreen stuff, especially when it comes to unnamed sources talking poorly about a kid (the report on Fields' work ethic comes to mind, which was shot down by a lot of different people). I know teams want to be sneaky and they want certain players to drop, but those things bother me. I'll be excited to watch the draft in two weeks, but I'll be more happy to talk about actual players the Broncos drafted and seeing where they fit with the team.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post

              I hear you.

              The reason I said it all started with Chris Simms is because he started saying it on PFT immediately after the trade was made. Florio made a big deal about how Simms had said it. I'm sure more people have said it, and they probably didn't all get it from Simms, but he was the first one that claimed it, so I use him as the epicentre of it all.

              I'm not putting any more stock in what Allbright says than what anyone is saying, because I think they're all guessing. But from what I can tell it seems more like the media thinks it'll be Jones and people with teams around the league think it'll be Fields. It would be funny if it turned out to be Lance and everyone was wrong.

              I love the hype surrounding the draft, but I get third of the smokescreen stuff, especially when it comes to unnamed sources talking poorly about a kid (the report on Fields' work ethic comes to mind, which was shot down by a lot of different people). I know teams want to be sneaky and they want certain players to drop, but those things bother me. I'll be excited to watch the draft in two weeks, but I'll be more happy to talk about actual players the Broncos drafted and seeing where they fit with the team.
              I understand getting tired of the smokescreen. I am a strategist at heart and enjoy watching it play out up to and including the draft. The part I get tired of is the duplicate content everywhere. I get tired of reading the same tired article because there are so many media sources regurgitating the same exact information (which lends credence to your Simms theory).

              I am interested in how real the concerns about Fields weaknesses are reverberating around the league. After watching the Northwestern game a couple of times, there is a legitimate concern about him being able to read defenses. It was exacerbated by Alabama in the national final. While I think everyone has a bad day, the issue with Fields is that the bad games were because of the way the Defense played against him and not because he was off. Northwestern, in particular did a great job of disguising their pre snap look and switching out to something else. Fields looked crippled. He was hesitant and seemed frozen in space. Didn't seem like he knew what he was doing. That was not just a bad game, it was one of those games that asks if the situation brought it out. NFL Defenses will do this to him every week. His weaknesses were exposed in a very visible national forum. When you add on his weakness of not being very good at going through his progressions. Not a great need to go through progressions when your primary guy is generally open. Probably unfair analysis, but a real question about how much patience it will require with him. Is he a project that takes a year or two to learn with a risk of never being able to read NFL defenses properly? Does he become more of a Lamar Jackson variation (which is not necessarily a bad thing either). But will he be able to run an NFL offense or will an NFL offense have to be tailored to him? I think these are legitimate questions teams should have about him. My personal opinion, is that these concerns are not warranted. I look to several other games where Fields reacted positively in similar situations.

              I also think that people are assuming Fields to the 49ers as a great fit for good reasons. He is mobile QB with a great arm and is very accurate. The 49ers like to move out of the pocket, his ability to throw the patterns they run, and the connection with Shanahan-- which I think are all valid points. Athletically he looks the part for a Shanahan offense. Shanahan loves athletic players that can run a lot of play action pass. Fields seems to be the poster boy for these items. It is exciting to think of him running play action pass with Mostert and player running like a video game through defenses. That being said, I do not completely ignore a couple of other things that are required in running that offense. The players often line up in the same formation but run different patterns, block ,etc based on matchups and how the D lines up against them. The offense if based on exposing matchup problems. Reading the Defense, reacting to the D, making his progressions are also important aspects to that offense. Their QB has to be able to read and react to run the offense. There are multiple patterns where the QB and WR have to read the same situation and react. There is a need to hit the receivers at specific points to capitalize in the RAC. This is where the Fields concerns are on display. Those are both things where Jones excelled last year, and Fields faltered. Although my personal opinion, is that it is easier to do those things when you have the all the best players on your team. I would also state that I don't know that anyone has a clue how good Lance would be at this aspects of the game. And while Wilson seems to have some of these attributes he didn't have great competition (it is easier to adjust to a D that is adjusting after pre snap when the D is not very good).

              I also think that people are overanalyzing Fields tape (especially the really bad game against Northwestern) because his year was likely not quite as good as his first year. Whereas Jones, Wilson, etc... ended on a high note.

              Bottom line is that I love Fields and would draft him in a minute. My statements above are not me trying to argue against him but to outline the real risk associated with him. I tend to think that Wilson (while I like him better than Fields) has more risks... And Jones and Lance have SIGNIFICANTLY more risks. Each of these guys could bust but they could all end up being quality NFL starters.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by myoung View Post

                I understand getting tired of the smokescreen. I am a strategist at heart and enjoy watching it play out up to and including the draft. The part I get tired of is the duplicate content everywhere. I get tired of reading the same tired article because there are so many media sources regurgitating the same exact information (which lends credence to your Simms theory).

                I am interested in how real the concerns about Fields weaknesses are reverberating around the league. After watching the Northwestern game a couple of times, there is a legitimate concern about him being able to read defenses. It was exacerbated by Alabama in the national final. While I think everyone has a bad day, the issue with Fields is that the bad games were because of the way the Defense played against him and not because he was off. Northwestern, in particular did a great job of disguising their pre snap look and switching out to something else. Fields looked crippled. He was hesitant and seemed frozen in space. Didn't seem like he knew what he was doing. That was not just a bad game, it was one of those games that asks if the situation brought it out. NFL Defenses will do this to him every week. His weaknesses were exposed in a very visible national forum. When you add on his weakness of not being very good at going through his progressions. Not a great need to go through progressions when your primary guy is generally open. Probably unfair analysis, but a real question about how much patience it will require with him. Is he a project that takes a year or two to learn with a risk of never being able to read NFL defenses properly? Does he become more of a Lamar Jackson variation (which is not necessarily a bad thing either). But will he be able to run an NFL offense or will an NFL offense have to be tailored to him? I think these are legitimate questions teams should have about him. My personal opinion, is that these concerns are not warranted. I look to several other games where Fields reacted positively in similar situations.

                I also think that people are assuming Fields to the 49ers as a great fit for good reasons. He is mobile QB with a great arm and is very accurate. The 49ers like to move out of the pocket, his ability to throw the patterns they run, and the connection with Shanahan-- which I think are all valid points. Athletically he looks the part for a Shanahan offense. Shanahan loves athletic players that can run a lot of play action pass. Fields seems to be the poster boy for these items. It is exciting to think of him running play action pass with Mostert and player running like a video game through defenses. That being said, I do not completely ignore a couple of other things that are required in running that offense. The players often line up in the same formation but run different patterns, block ,etc based on matchups and how the D lines up against them. The offense if based on exposing matchup problems. Reading the Defense, reacting to the D, making his progressions are also important aspects to that offense. Their QB has to be able to read and react to run the offense. There are multiple patterns where the QB and WR have to read the same situation and react. There is a need to hit the receivers at specific points to capitalize in the RAC. This is where the Fields concerns are on display. Those are both things where Jones excelled last year, and Fields faltered. Although my personal opinion, is that it is easier to do those things when you have the all the best players on your team. I would also state that I don't know that anyone has a clue how good Lance would be at this aspects of the game. And while Wilson seems to have some of these attributes he didn't have great competition (it is easier to adjust to a D that is adjusting after pre snap when the D is not very good).

                I also think that people are overanalyzing Fields tape (especially the really bad game against Northwestern) because his year was likely not quite as good as his first year. Whereas Jones, Wilson, etc... ended on a high note.

                Bottom line is that I love Fields and would draft him in a minute. My statements above are not me trying to argue against him but to outline the real risk associated with him. I tend to think that Wilson (while I like him better than Fields) has more risks... And Jones and Lance have SIGNIFICANTLY more risks. Each of these guys could bust but they could all end up being quality NFL starters.
                I'd love for the Broncos to get Fields at 9. I think he'd be a great use of that pick. Not sure I want them to trade up for him (certainly not to 4) just because of the amount of capital it would take, mainly the potential of losing future first round capital.

                I wouldn't draft Lance. I love his skillset, and from everything I've read he seems to have a great work ethic, but it scares me to take a QB that high when they don't have much college experience, and they're probably a year or two away from when a team should play them. He's one of two players off the top of my head where I think there's a real potential for him busting if the team that drafts him isn't patient and willing to let him develop slowly. Chazz Surratt is the other, and I say that as a big Tar Heels fan.

                Jones, I go back and forth on. I've said a few times, I think he'll be the best QB in this draft after year 1. I don't know where he'll be in the rankings after years 2, 5 or 10. But after year 1 I think he'll have been the best QB. But I worry about what his ceiling is? Will he become a Tom Brady or Drew Brees QB? Or will he top out as Chad Pennington? A guy who has a fairly long and decent NFL career, but never a great QB who could elevate those around him.

                My outside of round 1 QB that I'm most intrigued by is Jamie Newman. He did a lot of good things at Wake Forest, and has good size and the ability to get yardage with his legs if it's there. He's going to need a year or two to develop, but I think he could be a gem for any team that drafts him. I'm not sure if you've watched any of his highlights? If you haven't I suggest it not just to see him play but to watch the insanity of the Wake Forest slow mesh running game. It's crazy! The QB and RB are almost at a standstill and then walking as they wait for things to develop. I'd love to bring it the teams I coach, but I'm so scared that it would just end in kids taking massive hits and getting hurt.

                Comment


                • #98
                  ^^^^ I concur about Newman. Coming out of high school he was very highly regarded and had he played this season, I think he’d very likely be in the mix for QBs 2-5.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    NFL Mock Draft: SI Publishers Team-By-Team - Cowboys Get 'Polished' Starter (msn.com)

                    This Mock, just published.....has Fields dropping to 14.......has us taking Jaycee Horn over Patrick Surtain. { 2 Tackles and Parsons were off the board }
                    I've seen a few mocks where Horn is rising......and Path to the Draft has been touting him lately as well.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by skeeter01 View Post
                      NFL Mock Draft: SI Publishers Team-By-Team - Cowboys Get 'Polished' Starter (msn.com)

                      This Mock, just published.....has Fields dropping to 14.......has us taking Jaycee Horn over Patrick Surtain. { 2 Tackles and Parsons were off the board }
                      I've seen a few mocks where Horn is rising......and Path to the Draft has been touting him lately as well.
                      For me, it's hard to digest and ascertain what will happen in a couple of weeks with all of the wide range of opinions and expert analysis from football Gods.

                      Truth is, not very many fans and certainly not many of the football Gods have any idea what "exactly" will take place on 04-29 thru 05-01.

                      I'd like to see a "mock draft" comparison spreadsheet showing where all the actual "draft dust" settles by 05-02.

                      Will there be a few or many "didn't see that happening, where did that come from?"
                      Utah Bronco Freak

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by skeeter01 View Post
                        NFL Mock Draft: SI Publishers Team-By-Team - Cowboys Get 'Polished' Starter (msn.com)

                        This Mock, just published.....has Fields dropping to 14.......has us taking Jaycee Horn over Patrick Surtain. { 2 Tackles and Parsons were off the board }
                        I've seen a few mocks where Horn is rising......and Path to the Draft has been touting him lately as well.
                        I like Horn, but 9 feels a little steep. I know he's getting some late buzz, but to me, that's just people overcorrecting on him. I dunno. I never saw him as a target before the early to mid teens. That's how I feel about Mac Jones too. Only on steroids. People thought he was trash early in the year, and now they're talking about 3 to SF. He didn't really do anything late in the year that I didn't already see. The way I look at it is, if we want to go corner, why not just trade back and get Newsome or Farley if he slips into that range? Or, how about this. The guy has Lance just falling to NE, but I bet Washington tries to trade ahead of them before that. Why not see if BB wants to trade up to 9 for Lance?

                        The Chiefs pick is pretty weird. Bateman shouldn't be there, and it wouldn't be a bad pick, but they still need a tackle don't they?

                        Speaking of Lance...the more I read about him and watch what little there is of him, the more I wouldn't be against taking him at 9. I just can't get around the apparent semi-commitment to Drew Lock. Yes, Lance is a rare talent, but he's not the last QB prospect in the world. If they want to give Lock a real shot this year, I don't think Lance should be the pick.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by skeeter01 View Post
                          NFL Mock Draft: SI Publishers Team-By-Team - Cowboys Get 'Polished' Starter (msn.com)

                          This Mock, just published.....has Fields dropping to 14.......has us taking Jaycee Horn over Patrick Surtain. { 2 Tackles and Parsons were off the board }
                          I've seen a few mocks where Horn is rising......and Path to the Draft has been touting him lately as well.
                          I just can't see a fall like that, because some team from the bottom half of the draft would be offering too much to trade up and get him.

                          I'm also not a fan of the Broncos taking Horn, my biggest reason being that he's known as a corner who likes to grab and be hands on with receivers well into their routes and in the NFL they call way too much holding and PI for him to succeed without changing a major part of how he plays.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post

                            I like Horn, but 9 feels a little steep. I know he's getting some late buzz, but to me, that's just people overcorrecting on him. I dunno. I never saw him as a target before the early to mid teens. That's how I feel about Mac Jones too. Only on steroids. People thought he was trash early in the year, and now they're talking about 3 to SF. He didn't really do anything late in the year that I didn't already see. The way I look at it is, if we want to go corner, why not just trade back and get Newsome or Farley if he slips into that range? Or, how about this. The guy has Lance just falling to NE, but I bet Washington tries to trade ahead of them before that. Why not see if BB wants to trade up to 9 for Lance?

                            The Chiefs pick is pretty weird. Bateman shouldn't be there, and it wouldn't be a bad pick, but they still need a tackle don't they?

                            Speaking of Lance...the more I read about him and watch what little there is of him, the more I wouldn't be against taking him at 9. I just can't get around the apparent semi-commitment to Drew Lock. Yes, Lance is a rare talent, but he's not the last QB prospect in the world. If they want to give Lock a real shot this year, I don't think Lance should be the pick.
                            I could be wrong, but I don't think Lance can be a successful QB in Denver. He's not ready yet to be an NFL QB, he needs time to develop and ideally at least 1 to 2 years of sitting on the bench learning. The team that takes him needs to either have a starter in place for the next year or two (Falcons) or they need to be a team that's okay with him playing and being bad in his first year with the hopes that he'll start to get better in year 2 and 3.

                            In Denver I think we're too impatient at this point and I don't think fans will be happy with a raw QB struggling. I think Denver fans would start booing him and calling him a bust way too quickly, and then calling for them to replace him etc. I don't think it's the right place for him to succeed, and I don't think he's the right QB for what Denver fans want right now.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post

                              I could be wrong, but I don't think Lance can be a successful QB in Denver. He's not ready yet to be an NFL QB, he needs time to develop and ideally at least 1 to 2 years of sitting on the bench learning. The team that takes him needs to either have a starter in place for the next year or two (Falcons) or they need to be a team that's okay with him playing and being bad in his first year with the hopes that he'll start to get better in year 2 and 3.

                              In Denver I think we're too impatient at this point and I don't think fans will be happy with a raw QB struggling. I think Denver fans would start booing him and calling him a bust way too quickly, and then calling for them to replace him etc. I don't think it's the right place for him to succeed, and I don't think he's the right QB for what Denver fans want right now.
                              butler...you know as well as i do that you don't run a franchise based on fans. I'm old school i guess but i think you give qbs time to develop. I think he has the talent and football iq to be great and possibly has the highest ceiling in this draft. Yes he has a limited body of work but hes already doing things like calling protections at the line. Not to mention he will be 3 to 4 years younger than fields come draft time. I love this kids background. seems very responsible and grounded. We need something to look forward to at qb...i think this kid is it. Hes my favorite qb in this draft

                              that being said im still torn between drafting him at 9 and trading back because i dont think this team is near as complete as some.

                              i dont want to give up draft picks to move up though. that i know for sure
                              Glen Haven Fire

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                              • Originally posted by armedequation View Post

                                butler...you know as well as i do that you don't run a franchise based on fans. I'm old school i guess but i think you give qbs time to develop. I think he has the talent and football iq to be great and possibly has the highest ceiling in this draft. Yes he has a limited body of work but hes already doing things like calling protections at the line. Not to mention he will be 3 to 4 years younger than fields come draft time. I love this kids background. seems very responsible and grounded. We need something to look forward to at qb...i think this kid is it. Hes my favorite qb in this draft

                                that being said im still torn between drafting him at 9 and trading back because i dont think this team is near as complete as some.

                                i dont want to give up draft picks to move up though. that i know for sure
                                No you don't run the team based on fans (which why I don't think they'll trade up) but fans will be impatient and they'll tear a rookie QB up if they don't look like Mahomes in year 1. And the booing and ripping him will start.

                                Lance may call protection, but playing 1 year at the FCS on a loaded team is a lot different than playing in the NFL. The disguises defenses use are nothing like in college, and the worst corner he'll go against in camp will be able to do things that the best corners he's gone against in college couldn't do. There's going to be a massive learning curve for him. I wouldn't let him call any protections in year 1, and maybe year 2, because he needs to be looking at the defense as a whole, and trying to figure out what he's seeing. But that's not really a big deal, Jeff Saturday set protections in Indy when Manning played there.

                                As for the age difference, I think you're mistaken, Lance was born May 9, 2000, so he'll be 21 during the season. Fields was born March 5, 1999, so he'll be 22 during the season.

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