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Broncos TWO 1st round picks and both reaches

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  • #46
    [QUOTE=Boltheads;3270548]
    Originally posted by Broncoboy6 View Post
    That's what I figured...unable to back your smack. Go away BroncoBoi.....
    What, I meant that with Knowshon going into his 2nd year and Matthews coming into his 1st year, It is unfair to Matthews. Listen, I know that rookies can bust out their first year, I just don't see it happening with Matthews this year. I watched alot of his games, And this guy can run, But, He is playing with the big boys now. So, If you want, I'll take that bet Bonehead.
    HE>i

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    • #47
      [QUOTE=Boltheads;3270589]San Diego is not a pass happy team. Norv has relied on the pass because of the ineffectiveness of the rushing game.

      I just don't get your point. You want to make sig bets that Matthews will have better stats than Moreno, Yet you say that your guys rushing game isn't effective enough. Wow, i guess that saying is right, A sucker born everyday.
      HE>i

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Broncoboy6 View Post
        Are you seriously going to use a "JimmyClausen" link as your proof?, C'mon, You better come stronger than that.
        Huh? Did you even read it? He asked me to post up Clausen's stats so I did with some added commentary that puts them into context.

        jesus...

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        • #49
          Originally posted by TheQBGuru View Post
          Huh? Did you even read it?
          Can you say bias.
          HE>i

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Broncoboy6 View Post
            Can you say bias.
            What exactly are you driving at? Care to make a coherent argument or are you just going to throw out buzz words with no real meaning?

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by TheQBGuru View Post
              What exactly are you driving at? Care to make a coherent argument or are you just going to throw out buzz words with no real meaning?
              Do you not understand when i asked if you could post both Tebow's & Claussen's collegiate(Meaning their college) statistics?, Or am i asking for too much.
              HE>i

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by TheQBGuru View Post
                What exactly are you driving at? Care to make a coherent argument or are you just going to throw out buzz words with no real meaning?
                Here's an article that was in the GD section.

                The glittering genius of the Cold, Hard Football Facts is that we admire only numbers and productivity. We put little stock in a player’s pedigree. And we put even less stock in the “pundits” and their outdated weapon of choice, the opinion, which bounces off the steely armor of our analysis so helplessly, like nothing but little pebbles of pigskin overwhelmed by our M1A1 Abrams tank of truth. So it is today that we dive into one of the biggest stories of the 2010 NFL draft by looking at the college productivity of six legendary quarterbacks here in the modern pass-happy era. Six Big-Name College Quarterback



                Player Comp. Att. Pct. Yards YPA TD INT Rating*

                Player A 851 1,354 62.85 11,201 8.27 90 33 100.93

                Player B 825 1,232 66.96 8,772 7.12 76 37 95.60

                Player C 841 1,383 60.81 10,286 7.44 84 36 93.15

                Player D 493 797 61. 866 6,625 8.31 52 21 99.04

                Player E 564 986 57.20 7,731 7.84 51 33 85.72

                Player F 661 985 67.11 9,286 9.43 88 15 120.72 *



                Using the NFL formula for passer rating, not the NCAA formula The numbers aren't even close. One player dominates. One player leaps screaming off the list, like Horshack on "Welcome Back Kotter" when he knew the answer to a question: “Pick me! Pick me! Pick me!” That dominant individual, of course, is Player F. This quarterback: Was the most accurate of any of these six passers. Dominated the average per attempt category – our favorite number – by better than 1 yard per attempt over the No. 2 player on the list. Boasts a passer rating so sky high it defies



                description, nearly 20 full points better than the No. 2 player on the list. Elsewhere, Player F was No. 2 in total TD passes – but easily No. 1 in TD pass percentage. Player F threw a TD on 8.9 percent of his pass attempts – easily outpacing Player A, who threw a touchdown on 6.6 percent of his pass attempts. Finally, Player F protected the ball much better than any of the other quarterbacks on this list. Player F threw an interception on just 1.52 percent of attempts – easily outpacing Player C, who threw an interception on 2.60 percent of attempts. And you know what



                we've always told you: quarterbacks who throw picks lose games. Quarterbacks who don't throw picks win games. Dying to know who they are, arentcha? Well, the numbers represent the college career stats of six of the greatest quarterbacks in the modern history of the SEC. Here goes: Player A is Peyton Manning. He played for Tennessee in the SEC and was the No. 1 overall pick in the 1998 draft. Player B is Tim Couch. He played for Kentucky in the SEC and was the No. 1 overall pick in the 1999 draft. Player C is Eli Manning. He played for Ole Miss in



                the SEC and was the No. 1 overall pick in the 2004 draft. Player D is JaMarcus Russell. He played for LSU in the SEC and was the No. 1 overall pick in the 2007 draft. Player E is Matt Stafford. He played for Georgia in the SEC and was the No. 1 overall pick in the 2009 draft. And, finally, Player F is Tim Tebow. He played for Florida and the SEC and will be far from the No. 1 overall pick in the 2010 draft. The list tells us many things. First, it tells us that the SEC has dominated the draft in recent years, as you probably already knew. But five guys at the most



                important position on the field taken No. 1 overall in a 12-year stretch is a remarkable accomplishment, even by the lofty standards of the dominant conference in college football. Second, it tells us that NFL talent evaluators are out of their f*cking minds. Tebow, as you know, is the biggest question mark in the 2010 draft among the pigskin punditistas. He's the highest rated passer in the history of SEC football. He was easily a better passer than Peyton Manning or Matt Stafford or Tim Couch or any of the guys whose ability to pass was never really



                questioned by NFL talent analysts. And yet NFL evalautors for some reason aren't sold on Tebow. Couch and Russell are two bona fide NFL busts, even though pro football talent evaluators couldn't usher them into the league fast enough. Yet these same talent evaluators harbor grave doubts about the ability of the greatest and most efficient passer in SEC history to pass the ball at the next level. Consider, Charley Casserly, the longtime NFL executive turned NFL Network analyst, who was on the air Thursday telling the world that



                Tebow will go no higher than the fourth round of the draft next month. Other executives seem obsessed by the trivia over Tebow’s mechanics, while overlooking the rather irrefutable fact that he dominated college football like no player in memory and despite the fact that he was, by any objective measure, a much better passer than Couch, Russell, Stafford, and either of the Manning brothers. Tebow not only passed the ball far more effectively than any of these No. 1 overall picks. It pays to remember that, in his spare time, he set the SEC career record for rushing



                touchdowns. Oh, and he won a Heisman Trophy and two national titles. Other than that, he didn't do much. The anti-Tebow crowd will argue, weakly, that he was surrounded by greater talent than those other passers. The anti-Tebow crowd, of course, has its head up its RAINBOW. Let’s look at Peyton Manning. Last we remember, he played with not one, not two but three receivers taken in the top two rounds of the draft: Joey Kent, Marcus Nash and Peerless Price. His team was so loaded with talent that it won the national title the year after he left. JaMarcus Russell played



                with arguably the most talented teams of the past decade. They won national titles in 2003 and 2007 and he watched as 34 of his LSU teammates were grabbed in the NFL draft. Stafford? Well, Georgia is a prolific pipeline of NFL talent. Stafford was one of three starting offensive players from the 2008 Bulldogs taken in the first 50 picks of the 2009 draft (Knowshon Moreno, Mohamed Massaquoi). Ole Miss is hardly the SEC’s best hotbed of talent. But almost the entire offensive line that protected Eli Manning was good enough to earn a shot in the NFL,



                including not one but two of his centers: Ben Claxton (2003 draft) and Chris Spencer (2005), one of a small handful of centers ever taken in the first round of the NFL draft. Couch? Sure, he didn't have much around him. In fact, he's one of just three first-round draft picks to come out of Kentucky in the last 25 years. But in any case, his passing numbers pale in comparison to those produced by Tebow. The anti-Tebow crowd could also throw out the old David Klingler argument. You know, "anybody can put up big stats in the college game." But Tebow didn't just



                put up big stats ... he put up supremely efficient stats. He was more accurate, and produced more big passing plays, and was more likely to put the ball in the end zone, and more likely to keep it out of the hands of opposing defenders, than any of the recent collection of No. 1 passing phenoms to come out of the SEC. Tebow was, by any measure, a better player, a better quarterback and, yes, a better passer than any of these No. 1 picks. We understand that college success does not translate to NFL success. The long history of Heisman winners turned NFL



                busts underscores that argument. However, in the gamble that is the NFL draft, we'll roll the dice on the proven and unmatched passing talent of Tebow rather than on the sorry track record of pro football talent evaluators.
                HE>i

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by TheQBGuru View Post
                  I don't hate the Tebow pick because I do think he can be successful, but I'm not sure why the Broncos drafted him when a clearly superior prospect in Clausen was still on the board.
                  Jimmy Clausen #7 QB

                  2009 STATS* RATING YARDS TOUCHDOWNS
                  161.43 3,722 28

                  CAREER STATS* YARDS TOUCHDOWNS
                  8,148 60


                  Tim Tebow #15 QB

                  2009 STATS* RATING YARDS TOUCHDOWNS
                  164.17 2,895 21

                  CAREER STATS* YARDS TOUCHDOWNS
                  9,285 88


                  I was thinking something like this, But maybe with more info.
                  HE>i

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Clausen vs. Tebow

                    Higher completion percentage: Tebow

                    Higher yards per completion and higher yards: Tebow

                    Higher touchdowns per completion and higher touchdowns: Tebow

                    Higher QB rating: Tebow

                    Higher interceptions per completion and higher interceptions: Clausen

                    Higher sacks: Clausen


                    Higher yards per carry and higher rushing yards: Tebow

                    Higher rushing touchdowns Tebow:

                    Higher fumbles per game: Clausen


                    Considered to have the best personality : Tebow

                    Better speed: Tebow

                    Better endurance: Tebow

                    Better leaping ability: Tebow

                    Better ability to change direction: Tebow

                    Better lateral movement: Tebow

                    Better hand size: Tebow

                    Better arm length: Clausen
                    Last edited by Joshecalpoly; 05-01-2010, 11:23 PM.
                    2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Joshecalpoly View Post
                      Higher completion percentage: Tebow
                      Higher yards per completion and higher yards: Tebow
                      Higher touchdowns per completion and higher touchdowns: Tebow
                      Higher QB rating: Tebow
                      Higher interceptions per completion and higher interceptions: Clausen
                      Higher sacks: Clausen
                      Higher yards per carry and higher rushing yards: Tebow
                      Higher rushing touchdowns Tebow:
                      Higher fumbles per game: Clausen
                      Considered to have the best personality : Tebow
                      Better speed: Tebow
                      Better endurance: Tebow
                      Better leaping ability: Tebow
                      Better ability to change direction: Tebow
                      Better lateral movement: Tebow
                      Thank you very much Joshecalpoly, Great post/find. But there two accolades to add to that. 2 Ncaa Championships and a Heisman trophy. GO
                      HE>i

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                      • #56
                        I think we scared "Queen Bee Guru" away, Lol.
                        HE>i

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                        • #57
                          Sorry, I paid $50 to watch a fight and I wasn't going to miss that.

                          However, if you're just going to argue statistics than I don't really see the point in this discussion since scouting players has very little to do with numbers and more to do with more physical, tangible attributes such as arm strength, footwork, mechanics, etc. All of which Clausen has a huge edge on Tebow.

                          Do you deny that Clause has the stronger arm, the quicker more fluid delivery, the superior footwork, and more experience in an NFL style offense making pro-style reads and passes?

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                          • #58
                            This whole debacle reminds me of 2005 when the 49ers drafted the Meyer superstar Alex Smith over the clearly better prospect in Aaron Rodgers.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by TheQBGuru View Post
                              Sorry, I paid $50 to watch a fight and I wasn't going to miss that.

                              However, if you're just going to argue statistics than I don't really see the point in this discussion since scouting players has very little to do with numbers and more to do with more physical, tangible attributes such as arm strength, footwork, mechanics, etc. All of which Clausen has a huge edge on Tebow.

                              Do you deny that Clause has the stronger arm, the quicker more fluid delivery, the superior footwork, and more experience in an NFL style offense making pro-style reads and passes?
                              I disagree. Scouting a player has much more to do with watching game film and live action than anything else. If you were right then NFL teams would never send scouts to games they would just wait for The Combine and Pro Days. Sorry, but the old saying is true: They don't play the games in gym shorts.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by chazoe60 View Post
                                I disagree. Scouting a player has much more to do with watching game film and live action than anything else. If you were right then NFL teams would never send scouts to games they would just wait for The Combine and Pro Days. Sorry, but the old saying is true: They don't play the games in gym shorts.
                                All of those criteria are judged by watching game film...

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