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Orton-Marshall>>>>>>Rivers-(Jackson+McNeil)

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  • Orton-Marshall>>>>>>Rivers-(Jackson+McNeil)

    After coming off a disappointing year and being cut by the Jags (of all teams) Tra Thomas is hoping for a resurgence in his career. If he starts Rivers will be under pressure at least 10% more then if McNeil was the T.

    Vincent Jackson was rated the #1 receiver by ROD's favorite website lol Profootballfocus.com (All stats include every player including those with few snaps just for the sake of argument). According to them he is the 4th best at receiving, 9th best at blocking, and 20th best at running. Marshall was rated 38th overall, 16th best at receiving, 155th best at blocking (lets face it he sucked at that), and 180th at running. For the past 2 years Jackson was a higher ranking WR then Marshall. So in other words Jackson was a much better receiver then Marshall statistically speaking.

    Floyds ability to make a catch is 4% lower then Jackson and he is 10% worse at making plays after the catch. He is worse at Jackson in ever single category.

    Lloyd (who is slightly ranked the 2nd best receiver in denver) is a better blocker and faster then Marshall. I will admit Floyd is better then Lloyd, but the impact of losing a player like Jackson is greater then us losing Marshall. Combined with McNeil who was rated as the 57th overall T in 08 compared to Thomas being ranked 78th overall.

    I am not arguing that SD will be worse then Denver but since we have been told we cant possibly recover because we are losing an elite receiver and replacing him with receivers that have never gotten 1000 yards Ild like to point out your in the same boat now with an extra hurdle. I would mention LT who wasnt exactly impressive over the last few years but was an important player in the locker-room, but I am not exactly sure what to expect of a rookie RB just as I dont know what to expect of our rookie WR.
    2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

  • #2
    Originally posted by Joshecalpoly View Post
    After coming off a disappointing year and being cut by the Jags (of all teams) Tra Thomas is hoping for a resurgence in his career. If he starts Rivers will be under pressure at least 10% more then if McNeil was the T.

    Vincent Jackson was rated the #1 receiver by ROD's favorite website lol Profootballfocus.com (All stats include every player including those with few snaps just for the sake of argument). According to them he is the 4th best at receiving, 9th best at blocking, and 20th best at running. Marshall was rated 38th overall, 16th best at receiving, 155th best at blocking (lets face it he sucked at that), and 180th at running. For the past 2 years Jackson was a higher ranking WR then Marshall. So in other words Jackson was a much better receiver then Marshall statistically speaking.

    Floyds ability to make a catch is 4% lower then Jackson and he is 10% worse at making plays after the catch. He is worse at Jackson in ever single category.

    Lloyd (who is slightly ranked the 2nd best receiver in denver) is a better blocker and faster then Marshall. I will admit Floyd is better then Lloyd, but the impact of losing a player like Jackson is greater then us losing Marshall. Combined with McNeil who was rated as the 57th overall T in 08 compared to Thomas being ranked 78th overall.

    I am not arguing that SD will be worse then Denver but since we have been told we cant possibly recover because we are losing an elite receiver and replacing him with receivers that have never gotten 1000 yards Ild like to point out your in the same boat now with an extra hurdle. I would mention LT who wasnt exactly impressive over the last few years but was an important player in the locker-room, but I am not exactly sure what to expect of a rookie RB just as I dont know what to expect of our rookie WR.
    After reading this post I highly doubt you go to CalPoly
    Sorry Denver Haters...I've been on an extended business trip....:thumb:

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    • #3
      Originally posted by NoRingNoGlory View Post
      After reading this post I highly doubt you go to CalPoly
      How so the argument that you are losing 2 players that are incredibly good now because they refuse to sign, and we a lost a WR who is good but not as good as yours is fair since that is what has been said by SD fans on this site for the last 2 years. If the argument by every SD fan is that when you replace a 1000 yard receive with a player who has no seasons of 1000+ yards then the argument by transitive property must apply to SD. Add the loss of what has been argued by SD fans as the best LT, then of course the greater impact would be to SD.

      In other words your arguments that VJ and McNeil are the best in the game must be applied now that you are losing them. The argument that we will be deeply impacted by Marshalls trade must be applied here. All equating to the argument that you have suffered a greater loss. Thus, unless you SD fans want to retract all your statements then you must concede this fact.

      I am a Systems Engineering Grad Student not an english major. Earlier I tried to prove my argument through statistics now I am making it through mathematical argument. So tell me where have I made a flaw. Perhaps it was in the Lloyd (who I could easily substitute Gaffney for in my argument) Floyd argument which I made the analytical argument that neither have been 1000+ yard receivers and that SD fans were constantly working in the statement that any time your offense replaces a 1000 yard receiver for someone whose never had a 1000 yard season your going to feel a large negative impact (paraphrasing). Heck Eddie in 07 was a great receiver and showed signs of being a primary receiver before McD changed his position (he will basically being going back to the original position in a sense). He almost had 1000 yards and not counting his sophmore slump he may in fact be a powerful primary receiver for a year while our rookies learn. However, as stated thats beside the point and both teams if what SD fans said is true will feel an impact by losing their receivers but the Broncos (as it seems Clady may be healed in the early part of the season) will not be losing a described elite LT.
      Last edited by Joshecalpoly; 06-18-2010, 04:30 PM.
      2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

      Comment


      • #4
        this is a thread just to make a thread. not only is it wrong but it's screaming for attention wrong. Rivers with M80 is better than Orton and everyone that Denver has on their roster. Not to mention that Gates is still the #1 receiver. Lets also not forget that Thomas is a excellent pass blocker, just struggles against the run.

        So you're so so wrong

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by DoJo Chargerfan View Post
          this is a thread just to make a thread. not only is it wrong but it's screaming for attention wrong. Rivers with M80 is better than Orton and everyone that Denver has on their roster. Not to mention that Gates is still the #1 receiver. Lets also not forget that Thomas is a excellent pass blocker, just struggles against the run.

          So you're so so wrong
          My argument is that according to ROD NoRingNoGlory and BoltFan that losing a player of Marshall magnitude impacts the roster for the worse. Thus if according to them VJ is a better receiver then Marshall then losing him would have greater impact.

          Yes I made this thread with the simple purpose to show flaws in the argument made by you SD fans. I am not saying you wont be better but it will be harder to win without the skill of VJ and McNeil (who is honestly the greater impact)
          Last edited by Joshecalpoly; 06-18-2010, 05:52 PM.
          2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

          Comment


          • #6
            Ok and according to Den fans, VJ is not even on the level of Marshall. So according to them losing Marsh is a bigger blow then SD losing what they call a 1 trick pony in VJ.

            Not to mention they say Clady is so much better than Mcneil it's insulting. Losing Clady to injury is a bigger blow.

            We have a 3 time probowlers in Tra Thomas filling in for Mcneil, who does Den have??

            I think you overrate LT's leadership and LOCKER ROOM presence. LT is more of a quiet reserved guy who leads with his play and past 2 years his play was not very good.

            I think Rivers leadership is irreplaceable. I think LT's is very replaceable.

            Plus we have the best TE in the business who has had multiple 1000 yd seasons and we have a #2 WR who started like 8 games and had more rec yds than any WR on your current team. We have a TE who had more rec yds than anyone on your team and we have a RB in Sproles who had more yds rec and rec TD's than arguably your best WR currently on your team.

            I think SD will be just fine. Your offense WAS MARSHALL. Evident with his amount of receptions and targets. He had I think nearly as many receptions and targets as Floyd and VJ combined. That's a huge percentage of your offense gone.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ChargersDivison View Post
              Ok and according to Den fans, VJ is not even on the level of Marshall. So according to them losing Marsh is a bigger blow then SD losing what they call a 1 trick pony in VJ.

              Not to mention they say Clady is so much better than Mcneil it's insulting. Losing Clady to injury is a bigger blow.

              We have a 3 time probowlers in Tra Thomas filling in for Mcneil, who does Den have??

              I think you overrate LT's leadership and LOCKER ROOM presence. LT is more of a quiet reserved guy who leads with his play and past 2 years his play was not very good.

              I think Rivers leadership is irreplaceable. I think LT's is very replaceable.

              Plus we have the best TE in the business who has had multiple 1000 yd seasons and we have a #2 WR who started like 8 games and had more rec yds than any WR on your current team. We have a TE who had more rec yds than anyone on your team and we have a RB in Sproles who had more yds rec and rec TD's than arguably your best WR currently on your team.

              I think SD will be just fine. Your offense WAS MARSHALL. Evident with his amount of receptions and targets. He had I think nearly as many receptions and targets as Floyd and VJ combined. That's a huge percentage of your offense gone.
              Clady's injury was not that big supposedly he might be back by early next year. We will have Clady back McNeil could be gone forever. Replacing a LT with a guy who is 10 years older then him and definitely not as good. Its about half and half who will argue Marshall is better then VJ and you know where I stand.

              He did not have 100 yards in any game that we won last year. His TD's helped us win 2 games total. VJ's TD's helped SD win 3 games and in 2 others he had 100+ yards in a win, the exact same thing for Gates only over lapping in 2 games.

              The truth is its better to not build an offense around a single receiver who is not that great at making catches. In fact an offense with the ball spread out does much better.

              None of the amount of receivers you have though matters if you cant get the ball out because your constantly under pressure due to a slow Tackle. Unlike other lineman Tackles need speed and once that speed fades they become less and less useful especially against the blitz.
              Last edited by Joshecalpoly; 06-18-2010, 06:41 PM.
              2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ChargersDivison View Post
                Ok and according to Den fans, VJ is not even on the level of Marshall. So according to them losing Marsh is a bigger blow then SD losing what they call a 1 trick pony in VJ.

                Not to mention they say Clady is so much better than Mcneil it's insulting. Losing Clady to injury is a bigger blow.

                We have a 3 time probowlers in Tra Thomas filling in for Mcneil, who does Den have??

                I think you overrate LT's leadership and LOCKER ROOM presence. LT is more of a quiet reserved guy who leads with his play and past 2 years his play was not very good.

                I think Rivers leadership is irreplaceable. I think LT's is very replaceable.

                Plus we have the best TE in the business who has had multiple 1000 yd seasons and we have a #2 WR who started like 8 games and had more rec yds than any WR on your current team. We have a TE who had more rec yds than anyone on your team and we have a RB in Sproles who had more yds rec and rec TD's than arguably your best WR currently on your team.

                I think SD will be just fine. Your offense WAS MARSHALL. Evident with his amount of receptions and targets. He had I think nearly as many receptions and targets as Floyd and VJ combined. That's a huge percentage of your offense gone.
                Your tight end flopped in the playoffs though just like Kaeding. Antonio Gates is his name correct? He was turned backwards when Rivers was trying to throw to him resulting in a missed catch and interception by Darrelle Revis. Sounds like bad news for your team if he's another choker on your team. But if he gets as many yards as you say he does perhaps he is a good TE with hands which can always be of use to any team.

                SD has always done fine in the regular season. The real test will be to see if they can replicate it and make it to the Super Bowl. If not then we will know that Norv Turner's job will be on the line. The window for San Diego is not closing unfortunately, but if Tim Tebow is the quarterback of the Bronco's future and can replicate play equivalent to that of John Elway then your window of opportunity will close. All we need is a Peyton Manning or a John Elway and you guys will have lost for a long time coming.

                Fortunately for you guys, we did trade away Brandon Marshall which will be a minor setback depending on whether or not Orton can learn to vary up his plays. Only time will tell which is virtually why these smack boards are pointless in the NFL off season because they are basically troll threads in my opinion.
                sigpic

                "Maybe if he had an iron suit or a magic hammer...."

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by broncoFan! View Post
                  Your tight end flopped in the playoffs though just like Kaeding. Antonio Gates is his name correct? He was turned backwards when Rivers was trying to throw to him resulting in a missed catch and interception by Darrelle Revis. Sounds like bad news for your team if he's another choker on your team. But if he gets as many yards as you say he does perhaps he is a good TE with hands which can always be of use to any team.

                  SD has always done fine in the regular season. The real test will be to see if they can replicate it and make it to the Super Bowl. If not then we will know that Norv Turner's job will be on the line. The window for San Diego is not closing unfortunately, but if Tim Tebow is the quarterback of the Bronco's future and can replicate play equivalent to that of John Elway then your window of opportunity will close. All we need is a Peyton Manning or a John Elway and you guys will have lost for a long time coming.

                  Fortunately for you guys, we did trade away Brandon Marshall which will be a minor setback depending on whether or not Orton can learn to vary up his plays. Only time will tell which is virtually why these smack boards are pointless in the NFL off season because they are basically troll threads in my opinion.
                  True but its fun to argue about sports especially in the off-season. The truth is its getting on my nerves that we are going to so much worse without BM and yet even though VJ is so amazing his loss means nothing, and its obvious losing McNeil is going to hurt the Chargers.
                  Last edited by Joshecalpoly; 06-18-2010, 07:03 PM.
                  2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by broncoFan! View Post
                    Your tight end flopped in the playoffs though just like Kaeding. Antonio Gates is his name correct? He was turned backwards when Rivers was trying to throw to him resulting in a missed catch and interception by Darrelle Revis. Sounds like bad news for your team if he's another choker on your team. But if he gets as many yards as you say he does perhaps he is a good TE with hands which can always be of use to any team.

                    SD has always done fine in the regular season. The real test will be to see if they can replicate it and make it to the Super Bowl. If not then we will know that Norv Turner's job will be on the line. The window for San Diego is not closing unfortunately, but if Tim Tebow is the quarterback of the Bronco's future and can replicate play equivalent to that of John Elway then your window of opportunity will close. All we need is a Peyton Manning or a John Elway and you guys will have lost for a long time coming.

                    Fortunately for you guys, we did trade away Brandon Marshall which will be a minor setback depending on whether or not Orton can learn to vary up his plays. Only time will tell which is virtually why these smack boards are pointless in the NFL off season because they are basically troll threads in my opinion.
                    Indy >>>> Den and Indy with Peyton is lucky to win one vs Rivers and SD. So what makes you think Tebow can be even half as good as the GOAT Peyton Manning??

                    Indy has the best front 4 in the NFL. Best outside rushers, good o-line, great skill position, very fast athletic defense, good ST's, good secondary and they can't seem to beat SD.

                    So no, you can have Elway or the GOAT Peyton. The best you would get is a split and 2nd place in the division.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ChargersDivison View Post
                      Indy >>>> Den and Indy with Peyton is lucky to win one vs Rivers and SD. So what makes you think Tebow can be even half as good as the GOAT Peyton Manning??

                      Indy has the best front 4 in the NFL. Best outside rushers, good o-line, great skill position, very fast athletic defense, good ST's, good secondary and they can't seem to beat SD.

                      So no, you can have Elway or the GOAT Peyton. The best you would get is a split and 2nd place in the division.

                      Elway had a terrible team for many years and was able to lead them to divisional championships because he made heroes out of them. It's true, look it up. Indianapolis is a very good team and they beat SD in the playoffs and if you are a true Chargers fan you would have remembered that history quite well.

                      You should learn from your mistakes in history so you won't ever repeat them again but once again you are underestimating Indianapolis. If we had Elway he would make William Mckinnley a Rod Smith and he would make Eddie Royal 10X the man Brandon Marshall is. Think before you open your mouth for once in your life, just because your from a different team doesn't mean that has never won a SB doesn't mean that you can talk smack about a QB that took his team to 2 back to back SB's and won them both and even took his team to several divisional titles. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. This will be the last post you ever see from me if you continue your idiotic, unfounded, ignorant, posts. Kk?
                      Last edited by broncoFan!; 06-18-2010, 08:21 PM. Reason: Quite Unecessesary.
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                      "Maybe if he had an iron suit or a magic hammer...."

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                      • #12
                        Um, you guys are ridin' Tra Thomas, for real?

                        Yeah Tra Thomas hasn't put forth a pro-bowl effort since 2004. The dude got cut from arguably the worst offensive line in the NFL, and what was the Jags' worst enemy last year? Pass protection. If Mcneil holds out till Week 11 or beyond, I'm sorry but Phillis is gonna get beat up. I mean drug. He's gonna look like Courtney Love by week 11. I totally agree that ya'll will be golden without VJ, but a cruddy left tackle in the same division as the league's sack leader is not a good combo. Not to mention Tra is 6' 7", which only means that Doom is going to eat his butt alive.

                        I doubt Tra will actually start for you thought after the first two preseason games. Peppers and Ware will rip him up.

                        Of course though, by the Grace of Dolt luck, the best pass-rush you face early on is the Raiders, and that's not saying a ton. Good luck with weeks 7-12 without a good LT though.

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                        • #13
                          Bottom line outside of analyzing and breaking down stats. The Chargers have not done a damn thing. Philip Rivers may lead the league in passer rating, td's, etc. But when it's time to shine he flops and as the rest of the team does. NoRingNoGlory your team is the epitome of choking, since you like to use that word so much. It's funny you try to trump your team up as if we really care. It's like the little brother trying to get the attention of the big brother. But hopefully your team will be put back in it's place in the near future. Yes the Chargers window is closing, be careful or your fingers will get smashed.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by broncoFan! View Post
                            Elway had a terrible team for many years and was able to lead them to divisional championships because he made heroes out of them. It's true, look it up. Indianapolis is a very good team and they beat SD in the playoffs and if you are a true Chargers fan you would have remembered that history quite well.

                            You should learn from your mistakes in history so you won't ever repeat them again but once again you are underestimating Indianapolis. If we had Elway he would make William Mckinnley a Rod Smith and he would make Eddie Royal 10X the man Brandon Marshall is. Think before you open your mouth for once in your life, just because your from a different team doesn't mean that has never won a SB doesn't mean that you can talk smack about a QB that took his team to 2 back to back SB's and won them both and even took his team to several divisional titles. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. This will be the last post you ever see from me if you continue your idiotic, unfounded, ignorant, posts. Kk?
                            LOL seriously your rambling is incoherent.

                            First off Peyton has never beat SD in the playoffs. Peyton is 0-2 vs SD in the playoffs.

                            Second off, Rod Smith had better years with Jake Plummer and Griese than Elway. So no Elway would not make anyone on your receiving corp. Elway was not a prolific passer or one of the great passing QB's. He would make more plays with his feet. But he wouldn't turn average at best WR's if that to anything special.

                            Please learn your own team and football for God's sake.

                            I don't care who your QB is, you would still play second fiddle to SD, period point blank.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by VancePants View Post
                              Bottom line outside of analyzing and breaking down stats. The Chargers have not done a damn thing. Philip Rivers may lead the league in passer rating, td's, etc. But when it's time to shine he flops and as the rest of the team does. NoRingNoGlory your team is the epitome of choking, since you like to use that word so much. It's funny you try to trump your team up as if we really care. It's like the little brother trying to get the attention of the big brother. But hopefully your team will be put back in it's place in the near future. Yes the Chargers window is closing, be careful or your fingers will get smashed.
                              Sorry kiddo Den is the epitome of Choking.

                              Second off little brother to Den?? LMAO! SD is the big boy, the big brother, the king, the ruler of the AFCW and has been for along time now and will continue to be.

                              When it's time to shine SD and Rivers win games and make the playoffs and win playoff games and are in all their playoff games. Much more than we can say for Den and their non-playoff caliber team.

                              SD's window is open much wider than Den's or anyone else in the AFCW, if not in the NFL.

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