San Diego= Miss Congeniality

[kishzilla]

that is EXACTLY what i was saying.

So you're saying kickoff coverage and punt team coverage are different people, got it.

like i said, different guys. we are talking about guys that block on the interior line vs guys that run down field and make tackles.

its two different issues albeit both of them on ST's.

i still don't think you get it man, forget kickoff coverage and punt coverage, i am talking about 300 pound interior linemen blocking for a punter vs speedy linebackers, running backs, WR's, and CB's running down the field covering kicks.

do you not see the difference there?

Ok wait, now you're telling me to forget what you just said EXACTLY and now you're saying that the down linemen are different than the ball chasers that streak the field to meet the kick return guy. Naw... REALLY!?!?! Come on baph, you really think I don't know this?

It's completely different than what you just said you were saying EXACTLY, so you've already contradicted yourself in this post once, but I'll indulge your confused argument some more...

So now what you're trying to tell me is, after the interior linemen block for the kick, they just sit on their asses and let the 4 guys that chase down the punt cover the return and could not have possibly been part of the problem with allowing big returns because they are only responsible for blocking for the initial kick, and therefore could not have been a part of any changes made to the ST units by Norvell and company because they obviously follow your same logic... Ok got it.

what he is saying is its comletly different guys involved with kick coverage (whether it be kickoffs or punts) vs a missed block on the interior line on a punt.

Yeah ok, I got it, you said that already. It's BS, but I know what you're saying.

the fact is the interior linemen making those mistakes was different than covering a kick, completely different issue, that is the bottom line.

Like I said baph, if you truly believe that the interior linemen had nothing to do with the blown kick return coverage over the last few weeks thats horse crap. It takes all 11 guys to cover a kick, as we saw when scifres had to make a TD saving tackle. Blaming it all on the 4 guys that chase down the return man is BS and you and I both know it. The interior guys were just as much at fault and should have received the same amount of consideration for removal and replacement after those first few weeks of problems. I realize that the interior linemen are the ones responsible for preventing a blocked punt, but as I said before, to think that all of those guys are the same inept shmoes that were allowing the big returns, and to then think that they were just left there when they obviously are failing at the fundamental reason they are on the field in other areas, calls attention to the failed thinking on how to fix your ST units. If that is truly the case, then don't expect it to get better any time soon as there is an obvious break down in thought in your teams coaching ranks.

All of this get's back to the fact that

the changes that your team's coaches made after the problems in the first 3 weeks obviously didn't fix the lack of ability of the ST unit as a whole.

Your ST unit is still filled with issues and they were not all addressed. If all they did was sign a couple practice squad runners and expect it to get better, then you have bigger problems than just ST giving up big plays

Keep spinning it however you want. It can be a new ST hair splitting issue every week and you guys can spend the rest of the season fixing each one individually for the rest of the season for all I care. I just hope you realize how fundamentally stupid that is.

Next week it might be, "well see we missed all those field goals because the holder wasn't positioning the ball correctly and since that has nothing to do with the blocked punts last week, I'm giving our coaches a pass so they can now fix that issue separately......."

:thumb:

[baphamet]

So you're saying kickoff coverage and punt team coverage are different people, got it.

okay you got me on that one, i misread that and responded. no they are not all different people but some of them are different for sure.

there are bigger guys on the punt teams, especially in the interior line.

Ok wait, now you're telling me to forget what you just said EXACTLY and now you're saying that the down linemen are different than the ball chasers that streak the field to meet the kick return guy. Naw... REALLY!?!?! Come on baph, you really think I don't know this?

look man, instead of trying to catch me in crap why don't you actually consider what i am saying?

covering a punt or a kick down the field is a completely different situation than missing a blocking assignment in the interior line on a punt.

the chargers never needed to make any adjustments in thta regard because there wasn't any issues until then.

it really doesn't matter though, you are trying to act like its the same issue and they still cant get it fixed and it simply isn't.

yes its all special teams but the adjustments they needed to make was not letting defenders come in unblocked and block punts.

So now what you're trying to tell me is, after the interior linemen block for the kick, they just sit on their asses and let the 4 guys that chase down the punt cover the return and could not have possibly been part of the problem with allowing big returns because they are only responsible for blocking for the initial kick, and therefore could not have been a part of any changes made to the ST units by Norvell and company because they obviously follow your same logic... Ok got it.

they may have been a part of the problem but did you see the chargers release any interior linemen? neither did i.

again, two completely different issues that happened. one of them being coverage, the other letting doods come through the line unblocked and able to block those punts.....both times from the exact same spot.

did we have that problem in any other game until the raiders game? possibly but no kick got blocked i will tell you that.

Yeah ok, I got it, you said that already. It's BS, but I know what you're saying.

no it isn't and even if it wasn't what he was talking about, for you to pretend like you were right all along and the same issue just kept happening because it was special teams, is pretty freaking stupid.

covering kicks and letting guys come in unblocked and able to get those blocked punts is not the same thing, no matter how much you love to pretend it is.

Like I said baph, if you truly believe that the interior linemen had nothing to do with the blown kick return coverage over the last few weeks thats horse crap.

it may or may not have, those blocked punts were not all 11 guys fault, that much i know for a 100% fact.

missed assignments is what it comes down to, one guy gets a hand on him and that crap never happens.

every guy has another guy he is supposed to block. even in the kicking game, every guy has a lane he needs to fill.

if one or two guys get knocked out of their lanes that is all it takes. does that mean all 11 guys were at fault? not necessarily no.

It takes all 11 guys to cover a kick, as we saw when scifres had to make a TD saving tackle. Blaming it all on the 4 guys that chase down the return man is BS and you and I both know it.

i blame it on the guys that were supposed to cover that lane, i honestly do not know which players got knocked out of their lanes.

The interior guys were just as much at fault and should have received the same amount of consideration for removal and replacement after those first few weeks of problems.

maybe they were not the issue at all in coverage? maybe it was exactly as i said and the speedy guys who usually are the ones that make those tackles were knocked out of their lanes? did you go and watch the plays to see who were the ones that got knocked out of their lanes??

i haven't but i guarantee the chargers have.

I realize that the interior linemen are the ones responsible for preventing a blocked punt, but as I said before, to think that all of those guys are the same inept shmoes that were allowing the big returns, and to then think that they were just left there when they obviously are failing at the fundamental reason they are on the field in other areas, calls attention to the failed thinking on how to fix your ST units. If that is truly the case, then don't expect it to get better any time soon as there is an obvious break down in thought in your teams coaching ranks.

again, we are talking about two separate issues here. i know it is very difficult for you to understand, but its a fact.

covering kicks and blocking on the interior line and letting a dude come free and block a punt is not the same thing.

for you to assume it was those same guys (which norv said it was not) is just you hanging onto an argument so you can say "i told you so"

All of this get's back to the fact that

the changes that your team's coaches made after the problems in the first 3 weeks obviously didn't fix the lack of ability of the ST unit as a whole.

did the coverage unit give up a TD? before the raider game did they give up a blocked punt? how do you fix an issue that has yet to present itself??

Your ST unit is still filled with issues and they were not all addressed. If all they did was sign a couple practice squad runners and expect it to get better, then you have bigger problems than just ST giving up big plays

you are talking out of your ass again, yes some of the issues got addressed and a new one presented itself.

Keep spinning it however you want. It can be a new ST hair splitting issue every week and you guys can spend the rest of the season fixing each one individually for the rest of the season for all I care. I just hope you realize how fundamentally stupid that is.

i am not spinning jack crap, i know our ST's are horrid, never said they were not. you just refuse to see the truth which is the blocked punts are separate issues from the previous problem, which was kick coverage..

we didn't give up any big runs in coverage did we?

Next week it might be, "well see we missed all those field goals because the holder wasn't positioning the ball correctly and since that has nothing to do with the blocked punts last week, I'm giving our coaches a pass so they can now fix that issue separately......."

more talking out of your third eye. i am not giving the coaches a free pass for anything, i blame them almost 100% for the horrid ST' play.

also, you comparing this to missed FG's is just flat out ignorant. if i was going to make that excuse would have done in after the playoff loss last year.

cant wait until the end of the year when you are proved dead wrong but don't admit it.

remember, this is all stemmed from you thinking the ST's will not get fixed and this will be allowed to go on all season lol

we will see.

[kishzilla]

they may have been a part of the problem but did you see the chargers release any interior linemen? neither did i.

To be honest, finding details on what exactly the changes were are tough to come by. They very well could have but I can't find any specific details.

again, two completely different issues that happened. one of them being coverage, the other letting doods come through the line unblocked and able to block those punts.....both times from the exact same spot.

did we have that problem in any other game until the raiders game? possibly but no kick got blocked i will tell you that.

WRONG

Jacksonville game:
4-1-JAC 47 (5:44) 5-M.Scifres punt is BLOCKED by 23-R.Jennings, Center-58-R.Neill, recovered by SD-81-R.McMichael at SD 44. 81-R.McMichael to SD 44 for no gain (24-M.Owens).

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010091913/2010/REG2/jaguars@chargers#tab:watch

Guess you and your team's coaching staff just overlooked it cause you won that game eh?

no it isn't and even if it wasn't what he was talking about, for you to pretend like you were right all along and the same issue just kept happening because it was special teams, is pretty freaking stupid.

I already told you that the issue isn't just situational, it's personnel based, and the lack of the coaching staffs attention to that deficiency, so regardless of what problem rears its head this week, its obvious the guys that are in there are trash and it's not fixed. Fact of the matter remains, I AM right, you ARE wrong, it WAS a problem before the oakland game, and regardless of if it was or wasn't addressed via swapping interior linemen, the changes they made didn't fix squat.

did the coverage unit give up a TD? before the raider game did they give up a blocked punt? how do you fix an issue that has yet to present itself??

They didn't give up a TD but they DID give up a 46 yard punt return that was saved by Scifres again:

(10:38) 5-M.Scifres punts 42 yards to OAK 8, Center-64-E.Albright. 89-N.Miller to SD 46 for 46 yards (5-M.Scifres).

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010101011/2010/REG5/chargers@raiders#tab:watch

and I already showed you that you had a blocked punt previous to the Oak game. Both plays I would have assumed you would remember but being that you are a Charger fan, I have to remember that you have selective memory loss.

you are talking out of your ass again, yes some of the issues got addressed and a new one presented itself.

Sorry, but you are the one speaking from your rear, and no it was not a new issue.

i am not spinning jack crap, i know our ST's are horrid, never said they were not. you just refuse to see the truth which is the blocked punts are separate issues from the previous problem, which was kick coverage..

we didn't give up any big runs in coverage did we?

Coverage is still an issue as stated above.

cant wait until the end of the year when you are proved dead wrong but don't admit it.

remember, this is all stemmed from you thinking the ST's will not get fixed and this will be allowed to go on all season lol

we will see.

Can't wait until you reply to this post and spin everything I just proved you to be flat out wrong or lying about and won't admit to.

4 of the 5 games you've played so far have had glaring special teams issues and they've cost you 3 games so far. Coverage is still an issue, the blocked punt was an issue that came up before the Oak game and is obviously still an issue, and Steve Crosby still has his job and Norvell said Crosby will not be fired because of his unit's problems.

Yeah Baph, I can't wait till the end of the season either...

[RAIDER951]

You two should just get a room haha. Seriously though, the posts are too long for my attention disorder.

[kishzilla]

Seriously though, the posts are too long for my attention disorder.

This is a well documented phenomena among riverside co area raiders fans

[SLVR and Black]

This is a well documented phenomena among riverside co area raiders fans

Not just in Riverside, it's also in...uhmm, what were we talking about again?

[baphamet]

Can't wait until you reply to this post and spin everything I just proved you to be flat out wrong or lying about and won't admit to.

4 of the 5 games you've played so far have had glaring special teams issues and they've cost you 3 games so far. Coverage is still an issue, the blocked punt was an issue that came up before the Oak game and is obviously still an issue, and Steve Crosby still has his job and Norvell said Crosby will not be fired because of his unit's problems.

Yeah Baph, I can't wait till the end of the season either...

okay, i stand corrected, i totally forgot about that lol

but yeah, by the end of the season when we take our fifth consecutive
AFCW title and are dominate in November and december, you better be ready for the crow to be served.

because i will say this, if you are right and this is allowed to continue (which i am still saying it wont) and we miss the playoffs because of it, i guarantee i will be calling for the entire coaching staffs head.

[kishzilla]

okay, i stand corrected, i totally forgot about that lol

but yeah, by the end of the season when we take our fifth consecutive
AFCW title and are dominate in November and december, you better be ready for the crow to be served.

because i will say this, if you are right and this is allowed to continue (which i am still saying it wont) and we miss the playoffs because of it, i guarantee i will be calling for the entire coaching staffs head.

If crow is due my way I have no problem taking it, but the same goes for you. Even if you do win the division, if it's another 8-8'er, you and the coaching staff should still be on the hook. You for the smack talk, and them for their ineptitude. We fired a HC that actually won us SB because of it. A guy like Norvell should be walking on eggshells at this point, especially with guys like Cowher talking about coming back to coaching...

And as far as waiting till after the regular season to call for the head of someone, Crosby should already be gone. The fact Norvell hasn't made this happen would piss me off.

[kishzilla]

Not just in Riverside, it's also in...uhmm, what were we talking about again?

How the raiders suck eggs.

[baphamet]

Crosby should already be gone. The fact Norvell hasn't made this happen would piss me off.

i agree heads should have already rolled but is that even norv's decision to make? norv cant even take a leak without AJ saying it is okay lol

[kishzilla]

i agree heads should have already rolled but is that even norv's decision to make? norv cant even take a leak without AJ saying it is okay lol

Well as with most HC, I would imagine coaching staff is under Norv's responsibilities. But I suppose anything's possible.

[baphamet]

Well as with most HC, I would imagine coaching staff is under Norv's responsibilities. But I suppose anything's possible.

nope, norv doesn't seem to have much of a say when it comes to that. when he was hired (IIRC) he didn't bring in any of his own guys, they were either already on the staff or hired by AJ and spanos.

there is a similar situation in Dallas with wade, who is also a yes man like norv. i seriously doubt if a change was needed to be made like that, that it would be left up to wade to make the move.

although i am sure norv has a say in it, i am just not all too sure how much of a say he has.

when you are talking about coaches like wade Philips and norv turner, in the situations they are in with very controlling GM's......its not the same situation as most teams out there.

that is my opinion at least because it is all speculation.

[SLVR and Black]

Well as with most HC, I would imagine coaching staff is under Norv's responsibilities. But I suppose anything's possible.

I think that Norv probably has 100% responsibility without 100% authority.

[kishzilla]

I think that Norv probably has 100% responsibility without 100% authority.

probably so...

[baphamet]

I think that Norv probably has 100% responsibility without 100% authority.

that's why AJ deserves the heat he gets as well when the chargers get knocked out of the playoffs.

i mean, according to norv, its not the coaching , its the players. so wouldn't that fall on AJ for making the decision to keep those guys? isn't he the one responsible for bringing in the players?

even though i think that is BS. when you have meltdowns like that on ST's it has to be mainly coaching.

this is the NFL not college football, the guys on every ST's unit are talented and fast guys.

they either lack coaching or they are not buying into the coaching they are getting (which i think may be the case here).