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how can an "elite" QB choke?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Joshecalpoly View Post
    lol I just realized you highlighted the passing percentage and passed it off as passer rating, which honestly was lower bt really man learn how to read. Wow, try not to hurt yourself while talkin' smack.
    Ok, then its 51.9 passer rating. BFD.

    Originally posted by Joshecalpoly View Post
    So when Elway beat Atlanta 34-19 with over a 99 passer rating he played horribly right with that logic we should omit Rivers first 2 starting seasons. Also since Rivers had yet to make it to playoffs without LT or win a division maybe then we should just take away every season but this one. Without TD Elway was 7-7 and made it to several SB's without LT Rivers is 0-0.
    Give me another 8 to 9 seasons with Rivers as our starter and lets talk then.
    Right now you donkey fans are asking us to throw Rivers under the bus asking asking us to quit on his ass claiming he'll never make the SB because after 5 years as a start its over for him. Is that what you are saying?

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    • #62
      I have no problem defining Rivers as elite... as long as it's being looked at the same way... getting on the same vocabulary.

      He's top 4 at best, I put him behind Manning, Brees, and Brady. You can easily argue that makes him elite.

      However, I do think he's on a slightly lower tier than those aforementioned QBs. That's the only issue with the word elite. It tends to imply 'top tier', and he's about half a tier down from the very top.


      • #63
        Originally posted by baphamet View Post
        tell me donk fans, how come rivers is just a playoff choker but QB's many of you say are on another level choked yesterday in a similar manner?

        i wouldn't exactly call the colts loss a choke but the colts were favored to win and manning being a great QB should have no problems beating a lesser QB in Sanchez, right?

        but look at brees, now that was a huge choke lol

        i do like brees a lot but he lost to a 7-9 team in the playoffs, something that obviously has never happened.

        so why are these great QB's that are "supposedly" on another level than rivers, still choke games away in the playoffs?

        could it be that no matter how great you are, you still need to go on a run when the time is right? could it be that no matter how good you are you can still lose games you are supposed to win?

        this is why judging players (even QB's) only by super bowl wins or appearances is ignorant.

        brees and manning were elite QB's before they won their rings and they are still elite QB's after they choked yesterday.

        but i suppose its different when talking about rivers, since you guys hate him and all, right?
        I'm going to take in my mind the 5 best QB's in the league and compare them.

        Tom Brady
        Ben Roethlisberger
        Peyton Manning
        Drew Brees
        Philip Rivers

        ...those QB's records combined when there defense's gave up over 30 pts is 2-8 in the playoffs. So to say Brees choked is laughable. Let's get serious for a minute. Let's take these same QB's stats in the playoffs.

        Tom Brady
        Record: 14-4
        TD's: 28
        Int's: 15
        Record in 7 pt ball games: 6-3

        Ben Roethlisberger
        Record: 8-2
        TD's: 15
        Int's: 12
        Record in 7 pt ball games: 3-1

        Peyton Manning
        Record: 9-10
        TD's: 29
        Int's: 19
        Record in 7 pt ball games: 2-6

        Drew Brees
        Record: 4-3
        TD's: 15
        Int's: 2
        Record in 7 pt ball games: 2-2

        Philip Rivers
        Record: 3-4
        TD's: 8
        Int's 9
        Record in 7 pt ball games: 2-2

        If I'd catagorize them it would look like this...

        Tier 1

        Tier 2

        Tier 3

        If you really sit back and look at it all, Rivers and Manning choke more than those other QB's. However they have all choked a time or two in there day it's just who does it more than others.


        • #64
          Originally posted by baphamet View Post
          he is 9-10 in the playoffs and pretty much every single one of those losses were in games the colts were expected to win.
          The only problem I have with this statement is you said "expected". I think that's where everyone wants to label someone as a choke artist.

          Just because your the favorite in the media and on the betting line means nothing. When your down to the best 12 teams in the playoffs and when that first kickoff is taken all that goes right out the window and were playing football not expectations.


          • #65

            I know I don't get too involved with Rivers smack, but I can't recall Broncos fans routinely calling him a that a common occurance? I guess I missed it if that's the case.
            My 2011 adopted poster.........and and

            Adopted by: and


            • #66
              Originally posted by baphamet View Post
              to me elite is being in the top 3 or 5 at your position, plain and simple.
              Definition, Synonyms, Translations of elite by The Free Dictionary

              also, you say manning makes the players around him if rivers does not?

              did you not see how he made UFA receivers signed off the practice squad look like porobowl receivers?

              did you not see how he made his receivers look when his top 5 receivers were all not playing or injured?

              i think rivers proved this year that you can plug pretty much any receiver in there and he can be successful and make them look like first round draft picks.

              i don't even think manning had as many injuries at receiver as rivers had and it clearly effected manning, more so than rivers.

              and yes i am biased because i am a chargers fan but i am also very fair with my opinions as well.

              i just don't see that from most of you broncos fans that post here in smack. i mean, you actually think i am more biased than that says it all.

              you don't think you are biased because of your hate for the chargers? i mean, you just credited manning for making the players around him better but not rivers lol

              that is either just ignorance to the situation or you are blinded by hatred, which one is it?
              I dont hate the Chargers I don't even dislike them strongly. as for your definition of Elite and mine to each his own. I really don't see why you let my or others opinions get you all riled up like you do but whatever. I supose Tony Romo is elite too? He puts up awsome numbers..
              By the way you can't be bias and fair at the same time they are completely contradictory.
              Last edited by Beagle; 01-10-2011, 04:10 PM.
              Originally posted by baphamet
              are you talking career or right now? because i don't see how you can say manning is top 5 even healthy.dude will never be a top 5 QB again, he is done.


              • #67
                Originally posted by BOLTMAN-1 View Post
                Ok, then its 51.9 passer rating. BFD.

                Give me another 8 to 9 seasons with Rivers as our starter and lets talk then.
                Right now you donkey fans are asking us to throw Rivers under the bus asking asking us to quit on his ass claiming he'll never make the SB because after 5 years as a start its over for him. Is that what you are saying?
                First the only reason anyone in the division wants yo to give up is so we can make fun of you for having another player that won without you. That and not many like his personality.

                The claim we are making is he hasnt shown he can make it to the SB yet but as fans you act like he is the greatest thing on earth and he can do no wrong and that any mistake he makes is not his fault which is annoying. Only baph and jc have admitted that he doesnt play the entire season with the same intensity which honestly is his first main issue is he thrives off of must win regular season games. He also has a tendency to not play with the same intensity throughout the game which most of the time is the reason he loses. He has the ability win and i think one day he may but not till he fixes that drive. Its how Brady played after losing to the Browns before that they were not focused but now he plays every down like its important. Until Rivers does that he wont be as successful.

                All we are saying is he wont compare to Elway which is what you want to do so bad but Elway was a rare talent who made it the SB many times early on no he wasnt as good as SF who honestly had one of the best teams from top to bottom but he was still a fighter. Elway was never that accurate he had a good arm but he rarely used his cannon, he was a smart guy and not a bad decision maker but not the best one on the field. What made him good was his drive to win, it was that drive that uplifted everyone around him to play better and it was that drive that led him to the SB despite being older. The man had a 79.9 career passer rating for goodness sake. You accuse us of telling you to abandon Rivers but you do the same for us with Tebow I doubt you really are dumb enough to abandon a guy his rookie season. Intangibles actually get you farther then anything which is why II think Rivers has a shot because his intangibles are high and he has the ability to lead a team but he needs to improve his drive or focus if he wants to take his game further. Maybe being out of the playoffs for a year will do it and next year he will show determination throughout, but its something he needs.

                Otherwise Kitna who for the better part of the season was a top ranked QB as far as stats are concerned would be in the same conversation as Manning or Brady, stats and talent only get you so far as a QB. Its the will to win and the ability to bring ot the best in others that separates the winners from the losers. Although as far as Cutler is concerned it doesnt hurt to have an amazing D.
                Last edited by Joshecalpoly; 01-10-2011, 06:35 PM.
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