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Best most elite QB taken in the 2004 Draft..its unanimous

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  • #16
    Originally posted by nic.zeman24 View Post
    Oh because they won soooo many Super Bowls with Tommy Maddox and Stewart. Big Ben is a play maker and he makes plays that help his team win
    This is true, greatest game manager in recent history.
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    • #17
      Originally posted by Beagle View Post
      I actually did realise it but to just come out and say it would be asking for the STAT police aka normal Chargers fans to roll out the useless statistical data which only tells 1/10th of the story if that much
      I quoted THAT text and responded to you in THAT way for a reason. You're relying on the assumption that Pit and the G-men WANT to be running teams.
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      • #18
        Originally posted by arapaho View Post
        seems like the fizzzler fans crying that ben only won because of the pitt defenses


        need to recall rivers had the #1defense in 2010 and went where?
        oh Arapaho and your drive by smack. WHO said Ben only won because of the defense? he got carried by his defense to every championship, sure.

        oh and did the steelers have arguably the worst ST's in NFL history? i know you love to ignore that fact.

        how many points did the steelers team give up compared to the chargers last year?

        lets see, every single year since Ben got drafted the steelers defense averaged 15.7, 16.1, 19.7, 16.8, 13.9, 20.2, and 14.5 points per game.

        last year when you say the chargers had the #1 defense they averaged 20.1, barely good enough to be better than the worst steelers defense in that time frame.

        so why did the #1 defense give up so many points and so few yards? i think you know the answer to that question, you ignore it, but you know it.

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        • #19
          I have nothing but respect for Rivers. Yes he has had some weapons in the past but they've also been injured a lot and he's had to make quite a few receivers into the weapons that they are.

          He's a fiery leader for that team, and a complete gamer. If he was in NY they would have won that Super Bowl and maybe even another. As for Pittsburgh, I think we would have seen Pitt have 3 Super Bowls instead of 2 if he were there.

          Ben and Eli aren't in the same league as Rivers. They have both been carried by amazing defensive plays at times in their careers.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by baphamet View Post
            oh Arapaho and your drive by smack. WHO said Ben only won because of the defense? he got carried by his defense to every championship, sure.

            oh and did the steelers have arguably the worst ST's in NFL history? i know you love to ignore that fact.

            how many points did the steelers team give up compared to the chargers last year?

            lets see, every single year since Ben got drafted the steelers defense averaged 15.7, 16.1, 19.7, 16.8, 13.9, 20.2, and 14.5 points per game.

            last year when you say the chargers had the #1 defense they averaged 20.1, barely good enough to be better than the worst steelers defense in that time frame.

            so why did the #1 defense give up so many points and so few yards? i think you know the answer to that question, you ignore it, but you know it.
            ohh baprod and your frequent excuse.....wait you never make excuses right?

            so how come your useing a bad st?...which i strongly doubt is the worst ever as your crutch now?
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            when do native Americans become human and not mascots

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Touch_30_Down View Post
              I have nothing but respect for Rivers. Yes he has had some weapons in the past but they've also been injured a lot and he's had to make quite a few receivers into the weapons that they are.

              He's a fiery leader for that team, and a complete gamer. If he was in NY they would have won that Super Bowl and maybe even another. As for Pittsburgh, I think we would have seen Pitt have 3 Super Bowls instead of 2 if he were there.

              Ben and Eli aren't in the same league as Rivers. They have both been carried by amazing defensive plays at times in their careers.
              nice post, i agree.

              although i will say it is arguable because Ben is pretty damn clutch. but Eli? lol not even close.

              we can never know what Ben would have done had he played for SD or rivers if he played for the giants.

              but what i do know is what i have seen from their performances on the teams they do play for.

              Ben hasn't shown he can carry a team and neither has Eli, when they have been in situations where their defense hasn't played as well or the running game isn't as good, they clearly don't have anywhere near the same success (especially Eli).

              rivers can and has carried his team without a good defense and with a horrible running game.

              what rivers did in 2009 winning 13 games with a bad team around him, i can only think of one or two other guys in the league that could have pulled that off.

              rivers needs to have a serious push in the playoffs to become great, i realize that. but simply being carried in the post season alone does not make a QB great, in my honest opinion.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                ohh baprod and your frequent excuse.....wait you never make excuses right?

                so how come your useing a bad st?...which i strongly doubt is the worst ever as your crutch now?
                what excuse did i make Arapahole? (oh my bad, i forgot you don't like it when people make fun of your name but it is alright to make fun of mine right?)

                i made a factual statement, the chargers ST's was one of the worst of all times last year.

                it's a fact that 4 blocked punts in your red zone will make it seem as if your defense gave up less yards(not to mention leading the league in opponent average starting position will do it too).

                its another fact that you and all the other donk fans that use this argument totally and 100% ignore the points SD gave up, which wasn't close to best in the league.

                i wonder why that is? must be just me making excuses again, right?

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                • #23
                  Big Ben and Phillip Rivers are just two different styles of Qb's. 1 can scramble take hits in the pocket and still be standing up @ the end of the day. The other does more rollouts, shuffling around in the pocket to make plays.

                  They are both pretty good QB's. Although my top five Qb list would go something like this.

                  1. Tom Brady
                  2. Peyton Manning
                  3. Aaron Rogers
                  4. Drew Brees
                  5. Ben Roethlisberger

                  Big Ben really is an asset for the Steelers whether we like to admit it or not. He's pretty darn clutch like that game against the Jets in the PO's.
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                  "Maybe if he had an iron suit or a magic hammer...."

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by baphamet View Post
                    Eli sucks man, lets get that out of the way. even with a "run first" offense he cant protect the football worth a crap and turns it over too much.

                    Ben might excel in SD just because of norv being there with his track record with developing QB's

                    to be honest, if your theory was correct, then both Ben and Eli would be the most efficient QB's in the league since they are on run first offenses to help take all the pressure off of them.

                    but they are not, they both don't make great decisions with the football consistently like rivers does and they both absolutly cannot carry a team like rivers can.

                    there is only a handful of QB's in the league that can carry a team and do it efficiently like rivers does.

                    Ben and Eli are not among them.

                    stick to comparing rivers to Rodgers, at least then you have a solid argument.
                    Actually no. My Theory is correct no doubt and the fact that it is means that Eli and Ben are passing the ball in more obvious passing downs making it easier on the defense and harder on the QB. It's a good thing you're just a fan and not a coach but I have wondered before if you even watch football.

                    What has Rivers ever carried? The Chargers? to what?The deepest playoff run they had was due to the defense and a back up qb winning a road game! lol

                    Lets see the only season I can remember that the Steeler asked ben to carry the team was 2009 he had 4,328 passing 26 TD and 12 ints while being sacked 50 times. The steelers finished 9-7 one of thos wins was 36-26 beat down of the Chargers. Those stats look very simaler to Rivers number including the win loss 2 of the last 3 years...hmmmm
                    Last edited by Beagle; 06-07-2011, 03:20 PM.
                    Originally posted by baphamet
                    are you talking career or right now? because i don't see how you can say manning is top 5 even healthy.dude will never be a top 5 QB again, he is done.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Beagle View Post
                      Actually no. My Theory is correct no doubt
                      NO doubts? Not even one or two possibilities where you could be wrong? Remember that when you go to the extremes...you end up being extremely wrong.

                      Originally posted by Beagle View Post
                      What has Rivers ever carried? The Chargers? to what?The deepest playoff run they had was due to the defense and a back up qb winning a road game! lol
                      That was against the Colts, have you seen the last couple Colts-Chargers games? It's like God is holding a grudge. If you ever expect a charger fan to take you seriously, our defense has not been legitimately good for years now.



                      PS. They happen to be having a poll about this at NFL.com right now.
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                      • #26
                        Both Chambers and Vincent Jackson had better production per target then any receiver on the Giants did the year they won. The people surrounding Rivers are not incompetent by any means. Yes Toomer has more reliable hands yet its hard to say that Eli didnt have the poise at the time to not mess up when it counted and honestly its hard to say that Rivers didnt have top notch teammates. In more games Eli threw less INT's that year then Rivers in the playoffs while being under pressure more which to me shows that without a doubt he would not win in NY at the time.

                        Despite my detest for Big Ben Rapist he was better under pressure then most QB's. Its not always about the stats its about how well a player handles themselves in only a few moments Rivers has shown that he can yet in others his leadership skills and his poise is lacking. Still its possible he may have won in Pitt once.

                        I will admit Eli had one good year yet he played well and it is hard to take that away from him.
                        Last edited by Joshecalpoly; 06-07-2011, 11:08 PM.
                        2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

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                        • #27
                          Philip Rivers would have infinite rings if he got to play these teams in the playoffs, in prefered order:

                          1. Colts
                          2. Broncos
                          3. Titans

                          Rivers is deciding to play bad, just to see how it feels.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Beagle View Post
                            Actually no. My Theory is correct no doubt and the fact that it is means that Eli and Ben are passing the ball in more obvious passing downs making it easier on the defense and harder on the QB. It's a good thing you're just a fan and not a coach but I have wondered before if you even watch football.
                            uhh no, it does not mean they are just throwing the ball in more obvious passing situations, it means that teams are not dropping as many defenders into coverage and are leaving receivers in one one one coverage because they are stacking the box to stop the run.

                            its a good thing you are just a fan because that is a very basic concept for you not to understand.

                            you are the first person i have ever seen to say a good running game or a run first offense actually puts more pressure on a QB. LMAO!!

                            learn about the game of football before you start questioning my knowledge, kiddo.

                            What has Rivers ever carried? The Chargers? to what?The deepest playoff run they had was due to the defense and a back up qb winning a road game! lol
                            you are clearly trolling

                            Lets see the only season I can remember that the Steeler asked ben to carry the team was 2009 he had 4,328 passing 26 TD and 12 ints while being sacked 50 times. The steelers finished 9-7 one of thos wins was 36-26 beat down of the Chargers. Those stats look very simaler to Rivers number including the win loss 2 of the last 3 years...hmmmm
                            yet their offense was not even a top 10 scoring offense in the league, not to mention that is the only year you can say that about Ben, one of the few years the steelers didn't make it to the playoffs.

                            that year his defense didnt play as well (mainly due to troy being hurt much of the season IIRC)

                            you do realize that actually proves my point, right? Ben has been carried to every single playoff run.

                            when the steelers defense is dominate the steelers win, regardless of who is the QB, that has been proven.

                            but i wouldn't except a lesser knowledgeable football fan such as yourself to know that.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Joshecalpoly View Post
                              Both Chambers and Vincent Jackson had better production per target then any receiver on the Giants did the year they won. The people surrounding Rivers are not incompetent by any means. Yes Toomer has more reliable hands yet its hard to say that Eli didnt have the poise at the time to not mess up when it counted and honestly its hard to say that Rivers didnt have top notch teammates. In more games Eli threw less INT's that year then Rivers in the playoffs while being under pressure more which to me shows that without a doubt he would not win in NY at the time.

                              Despite my detest for Big Ben Rapist he was better under pressure then most QB's. Its not always about the stats its about how well a player handles themselves in only a few moments Rivers has shown that he can yet in others his leadership skills and his poise is lacking. Still its possible he may have won in Pitt once.

                              I will admit Eli had one good year yet he played well and it is hard to take that away from him.
                              so much misinformation from you broncos fans, you guys are clearly biased and misinformed.

                              rivers was sacked less and had a better completion percentage when pressured, than Ben last year.

                              http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog...ssure-reveals/

                              Ben was pressures slightly more than rivers 35.53% of the time to rivers being pressured 34.86% of the time.

                              Ben was sacked 21.13% of the time and completed 51.75% of his passes when pressured.

                              rivers was sacked 18.45% of the time and completed 52.76% of his passes when he was pressured.

                              not only that but i am willing to bet that rivers is one of the better QB's in the league in efficiency under pressure because i know i read an article like a year or two ago that listed him having a career QB rating over 90 when being blitzed.

                              the bottom line is, no.....ben is not better than rivers under pressure. not last year, not ever.

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                              • #30
                                You gotta hand it to Rivers on this one. If I'm a GM drafting in the top 5 in 2004 I jump at the chance to get him...

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