Broncos Can Begin Payback On Sunday

[mct1967]

We had Trone Braxton and Steve Atwater. Atwater should be in the HoF and Braxton went to I believe a couple pro-bowls.

People forget how good a Defense we had during those two Super Bowls. It was an extremely talented group.



Everyone but Champ, Dawkins and Goodman are rookies IIRC. And Cassius Vaughn is in his 2nd year. Like I said, bunch of old timers and extremely young guys.


Elway and Co. have all said that this is how they will be approaching the draft anyway. That's how we ended up with Von Miller and not Fairley or Dareus. Even though the need at DT was obvious, you don't pass up talent like that for need.



Rahim Moore, and Cassius Vaughn were also inactive. But neither of them are really starters, mostly just Special Teams. Carter has been a better tackler than Moore so he's been starting, but I believe Moore to be the better coverage guy at FS. Or he at least has the potential to be.



I think it's a few things. His overtly religious attitude obviously turns people off, and he's been mocked for it and criticized for the manner in which he expresses it, even though it's no worse/better than a lot of other players express themselves. He looks ugly out there compared to what the NFL is used to seeing, and people translate that into an inability to play, which imo is ridiculous. Results are what matters right? And lastly, and most important, is I think a lot of people in the media dogged the kid from the get-go, so now in order to save face as an analyst, they are sticking to the mantra, in spite of the wins, because they're emotionally invested in his failure now. Read Merril Hoge.

Admitting you may have been wrong about a guy is an admission of your inability to do your job (as an analyst) and could conceivably lose you credibility, if you have little to begin with. That's why you see HoFers and respected coaches etc. changing their viewpoints on Tebow recently, because they've earned the right to get one wrong here and there and change their mind, where as a guy like Hoge is little more than filler on ESPN.

Ultimately I'm just enjoying relevance again, and hope that Tebow continues to improve so that we can move beyond the whole QB thing. The roller coaster at that position over the last decade has been tiring.

"We had Trone Braxton and Steve Atwater. Atwater should be in the HoF and Braxton went to I believe a couple pro-bowls."

Dont forget Dennis Smith and Atwater. In my opinion, that was the best safety tandem in Broncos history.



"...is I think a lot of people in the media dogged the kid from the get-go, so now in order to save face as an analyst, they are sticking to the mantra, in spite of the wins..."

True, but the media also dogged Cam before the season started, yet now they think he's a legit NFL qb. The media are fickle. With Tebow, maybe the media doesn't want to admit they were wrong twice, so they won't look like clueless fools...which many of them are.

[kishzilla]

I don't know about you guys but citing a player for being too "preachy" is far better than the: gun charges, assault charges, DUI's, durg (enhancers or narcotics) charges, spousal abuse, animal abuse, and manslaughter charges we usually get. Then again, maybe I'm just a bit "zany" like that.

I'm not religious, and I have absolutely no problems with it. Like you said, I'd rather he was building hospitals in the Philippines, and saying god bless, than beating up his girlfriend, and getting arrested for DUI.

I'm sad to say that I think you hit the nail on the head on this one. I don't know about the rest of you but there are far too many people in this world who think that by never admitting (or even acknowledging that they should have done things differently) they were wrong they can keep up the pretense of being correct. Refusing to learn from your mistakes doesn't make you right, it makes you stupid.

If Tebow continues to be part of a winning team, and contributes as well or better than he has, then they will have no choice but to change their opinions, or they wont be employed for very long.

"I know I had a lot of help," he said. "The offensive line did a great job, and the receivers stepped up and made me look better than I am." - Tim Tebow

I stole this from a post in the general section from yesterday. Now when was the last time you saw a QB say that (especially the last part)? Yes I'm looking at you: Mark Sanchez, Joe Flacco, Matt Cassel.

It's nice to see some humility from a professional athlete. I'd imagine it would be tough to stay grounded as a pro athlete when you're essentially one of the best in the world at what you do, you know it, and you're getting paid millions to do it. I understand how guys can get big heads, it's just nice to see it when they haven't.

[kishzilla]

The biggest question I think for the Broncos next season is what to do with Dawkins. He's clearly a leader and gets the guys fired up. My wife and I were sitting on the Broncos side of the field yesterday and I pointed out to her what Dawkins was doing on the sideline...getting the D fired up, motivating them, telling them what they need to fix, etc. I love that about the guy. But....he is already way past the age you normally see a SS playing in the NFL, he's lost speed due to age and I'm not sure his pass coverage abilities are adequate anymore. He still tackles and blitzes well, but on passing downs, maybe they need to bring in a younger and better pass coverage guy.

I agree with your points about a DT. Yesterday I noticed Bunkley on the sideline a lot. I don't know if he was dinged up or not playing well or what the problem was.

I'd like to see a good DT and some good DBs drafted for next year or through the FA or get some in a trade.

I dont think Vaughn can do it at the NFL level, he was terrible when he replaced Champ during his injury.

Dawkins can still play. His football IQ and his ability to read an offense, for now at least, outweighs his slowed play in pass coverage. He's still making huge plays, and seems to always be near the ball on every down. Philly screwed up letting him go.

[kishzilla]

I know but as bad as it was, Goodman still stood out to me lol.. he was beyond awful. I'm with you on DT, I've been saying that myself for a while but we need to address the secondary. Champ is elite as always but he's human, time's not on his side and if we haven't fixed our secondary when he eventually drops several steps in his game, it's gonna get ugly, especially in this era of passing happy offenses.

Draft: Defense, defense, defense and a bit of offense

If we go RB early I'm gonna freak out..

You build teams from the inside out, not the outside in. We've enjoyed Champ as a shutdown corner throughout the peak of his career, but we never had a dominant D line. You can see where that's gotten us. A dominant line makes everyone's job easier. The LB's and the DB's. Right now, above all else, we need DTs.

And as far as a RB, I'd be fine with a RB or QB pick, but not until the later rounds. I think quality can be found at a lot of offensive positions, later in the Draft. Very good Linemen however, are at a premium, and are much more difficult to get ahold of.

[kishzilla]

"We had Trone Braxton and Steve Atwater. Atwater should be in the HoF and Braxton went to I believe a couple pro-bowls."

Dont forget Dennis Smith and Atwater. In my opinion, that was the best safety tandem in Broncos history.

Yeah, but Smith and Atwater peaked at different times. Atwater was more of Smith's protege. I agree that Smith was a better player than Braxton, but we're talking guys playing side by side.

True, but the media also dogged Cam before the season started, yet now they think he's a legit NFL qb. The media are fickle. With Tebow, maybe the media doesn't want to admit they were wrong twice, so they won't look like clueless fools...which many of them are.

Cam never received the same criticism that Tebow did. Most everyone had him going early in the 1st round. Pretty much nobody expected Tebow to go in the first. As far as I could tell, people were split with Cam on whether or not he would be successful as an NFL QB, but it was fairly unanimous that Tebow would not.