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  • Originally posted by Houshmazode View Post
    True.
    I am by no means saying that Baph is right when he does it...just saying he would never make the "my guy had more targets with lesser production but wait if he had even more targets his production would eventual get to be better (Stat wise) than that of your guy", therefor he is better argument.
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    • Originally posted by 86Elwayfan View Post
      Why in this discussion does it matter we threw 122 passes to guys you aren't even talking about. BTW the reason for that is often that Tamme/Dressen would come in for Welker or JT and get a target.

      From your own post you showed that our top 5 guys had 6 more targets (~1% more) in total to your top 5 and yet in that span they produced significantly more TD's and yards. Your imaginary 90 targets doesnt mean anything, the actual numbers show your top 5 weren't as good end of discussion.

      As far as receptions on passes thrown over 10 yards....don't you think those numbers just show how much better DT is after the catch since you know he had fewer catches on long balls and yet still had more yards. You simply are arguing awful math.
      In passes thrown over 10 yards the greatest passing offense in the history of the world only had 150 yards (9 yards a game) more than the Bears. The reason the Broncos had such a high number of total passing yards was due to screens, bubble screens and pick plays. Plays that also get you a lot of yac.

      I know Tamme, Jacob, Caldwell, Ball and others came in and caught passes. That's my point. If the Broncos didn't have those players on the team to come in like Chicago doesn't then who would have caught those extra 122 passes? I'm guessing Thomas, Thomas, Decker, Welker and Moreno. Make sense?

      "the actual numbers show your top 5 weren't as good end of discussion." Good argument. Anything to back that up or are you one that just looks at stats and knows who a better player is. I like to actually watch the game. That way I don't make the mistake of thinking that Martellus Bennett is better than Larry Fitzgerald just because some stat says he is.

      Great article on Denvers offense.

      http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...e-physical-dbs

      "Call it a rub route, call it a rubout or call it a pick play, but call it highly effective. It's a central component of Denver's high-octane offense, something the Seattle Seahawks say they'll be braced for Sunday."

      "Critics call it cheating, claiming that the receivers are basically committing offensive pass interference."

      "No team uses picks or rub routes more than the Denver Broncos"

      "One of Manning's favorite plays is throwing a bubble screen to Demaryius thomas"

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      • Originally posted by 86Elwayfan View Post
        I am by no means saying that Baph is right when he does it...just saying he would never make the "my guy had more targets with lesser production but wait if he had even more targets his production would eventual get to be better (Stat wise) than that of your guy", therefor he is better argument.
        I not once said who was better or anything. All I said was that if the Bears threw the ball 122 more times, based on averages, Marshall would have had higher stats last year. You guys think I'm wrong I guess.

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        • Originally posted by Chitown View Post
          So first it was Demaryius Thomas would have better numbers if he didn't have Welker and Decker, and now it's he would have worse numbers if he didn't have Welker and Decker. Got it.
          Look guy this is your thread I never attacked Marshall, you come in here bragging about Terrell Owens 2.0 and nobody cares about his stats cause your team didn't make the playoffs. Go argue with Lions fans about why you think Cutler & Marshall are better than Megatron and Stafford. We got seahawk, Patriot, and Charger fans to argue with, you know playoff teams.
          In other words the adults are talking go find a shiny toy and put in your mouth.
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          • Originally posted by JakeNbake View Post
            Less receptions more Productivity means you suck.... AMIRTE?!



            I think I'm wrong.

            But who knows it depends what kind of logic we're using. Perhaps in backwards land we might find certain peoples arguments to be more valid.
            http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/pl...receivingYards

            Nope you are right. What am I thinking. Here I was watching games and using my logic to see who the better players in the NFL were and I've been wrong. Harry Douglass is better than Larry Fitzgerald. More production.

            I would have never thought that Terrance Williams was better than Roddy White just by watching them play. But he has to be because of better production.

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            • Originally posted by Chitown View Post
              I not once said who was better or anything. All I said was that if the Bears threw the ball 122 more times, based on averages, Marshall would have had higher stats last year. You guys think I'm wrong I guess.
              I already told you this logic is down right insane. Because the same could be said that if DT was force fed the ball as much as Marshall he would have over 1800 yards. Pointless to make these comparisons. Playing the what if game is a bad way to build an argument.




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              • Originally posted by #87Birdman View Post
                I already told you this logic is down right insane. Because the same could be said that if DT was force fed the ball as much as Marshall he would have over 1800 yards. Pointless to make these comparisons. Playing the what if game is a bad way to build an argument.
                I totally agree that Thomas would have put up those numbers had he been targeted more. And he would have been if the Broncos didn't have those other guys on the team that were targeted 122 times. Again, I agree with you. I just made a simple statement that if the Bears threw the ball as many times as Denver did, with their roster the way it is, without those other players on the team worthy of 122 passes, Jeffery would have lead the league in yards and Brandon would have been 4th behind Jeffery, Gordon and Calvin Johnson.

                Simplest as I can put it. If Tamme, Ball, Dreesen, Caldwell and Green were not on the Broncos roster last year and Manning still threw the same amount of passes he did, Demarius Thomas stats would have been over 1800 yards. Decker, Welker, J.T and Morenos all go up as well. But the Broncos do have those other players. That's why Thomas didn't have 1800 yards. The Bears do not have those other players. So if the Bears threw the ball as many times as Denver did, with no other options to come off the bench like Denver does, Alshon Jeffery would have lead the league in yards and Marshall would have finished fourth.

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                • Originally posted by 86Elwayfan View Post
                  At least when Baph does it the numbers make logical sense....

                  since when?
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                  when do native Americans become human and not mascots

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                  • Originally posted by Chitown View Post
                    I totally agree that Thomas would have put up those numbers had he been targeted more. And he would have been if the Broncos didn't have those other guys on the team that were targeted 122 times. Again, I agree with you. I just made a simple statement that if the Bears threw the ball as many times as Denver did, with their roster the way it is, without those other players on the team worthy of 122 passes, Jeffery would have lead the league in yards and Brandon would have been 4th behind Jeffery, Gordon and Calvin Johnson.

                    Simplest as I can put it. If Tamme, Ball, Dreesen, Caldwell and Green were not on the Broncos roster last year and Manning still threw the same amount of passes he did, Demarius Thomas stats would have been over 1800 yards. Decker, Welker, J.T and Morenos all go up as well. But the Broncos do have those other players. That's why Thomas didn't have 1800 yards. The Bears do not have those other players. So if the Bears threw the ball as many times as Denver did, with no other options to come off the bench like Denver does, Alshon Jeffery would have lead the league in yards and Marshall would have finished fourth.
                    Wow! Who new? And the bears still wouldnt have made the playoffs. Im really glad we went over this worthless stat breakdown but it wouldn't have helped your team.
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                    • Originally posted by InsaneBlaze23 View Post
                      Fitz, Megatron, Johnson, Jordy, Cobb, Cruz, Smith, Wallace, Wayne, Jackson, Thomas, Green, Bryant, and Josh Gordon are all better.

                      Cases can be made for Welker, Brown, Harvin, and Jackson.
                      With the exception of C.Johnson who is the best WR in the game and Thomas, along with A. Johnson who are even, why on earth would you add in those other receivers? The consistant numbers just don't add up.

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                      • Originally posted by Beagle View Post
                        Actually when you consider how many more weapons we have in Denver to get the ball too ...yeah there is a huge difference. More Tds and more yards with less opportunities...the maths not hard to figure out hoss

                        Now lets ad in the fact he is younger and not sitting at the edge of a year long suspension. I Always love Bradons YaC but Thomas is just as fun to watch although he doesn't have those WOW how did he bust out of that tackle highlight thats because he is faster than Brandon so he doesnt have to break out he just runs.

                        I read through all of your stats and can help but notice you have all the regular season stats up there but have not added in Thomas's Playoff stats? Why is that they happened they are part of his 2 year production! They are against the some of the best corners and secondarys in the league too...He set a superbowl record vs arguably the greatest secondary in NFL history ..Where are Brandons playoff successes? oh wait he like Cutler tends not to be in the playoffs huh...well thats all Manning oooh wait there was that game vs Pitt where Thomas set the record for shortest OT Victory in NFL history... with a pass from Tebow Marshal is the Number 2 WR ifhe is still in Denver sorry
                        1) OK, I can see that............Denver has a ton of weapons, and Thomas has done more with less. He is a hell of a receiver, and I have never said anything different.

                        2) This is a very good point. Both Thomas, and Marshall have that WOW factor even though they are totally different types of WR's. Thomas has the ability to take the top off a defense while there is not a tougher WR in the league than Marshall.

                        3) I see what you did there, even though we both know that there are a different set of stats for the regular, and post seasons. Plus we also both know what Thomas said when Manning was signed, and Tebow shipped out.

                        4) Hell Marshall may be the #2 WR in Chicago this year, and you know what, I don't really care, because that only means Jeffery has upped his game to the next level. As said the best WR duo in the NFL.

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                        • Originally posted by bears6385 View Post
                          With the exception of C.Johnson who is the best WR in the game and Thomas, along with A. Johnson who are even, why on earth would you add in those other receivers? The consistant numbers just don't add up.
                          The odd thing is he didnt include Nicks who is only 26 but has already over 300 career receptions and 4600 receiving yards. I think Green and Bryant just because of the potential they have. Fitzgerald has always been dominant especially in the redzone no matter who the QB is.

                          Truth is though you have so many different types of receivers you have deep threats redzone threats reliable receivers play makers. Slot and outside receivers. Its all really relative to the scheme that you can make a case for quite a few guys. Heck Colston has consistently been one of the most reliable targets in the game though he has Brees throwing to him

                          If you look at Y/R Brandon Marshall is 44th on the list over his career and its even lower if you look at Y/T. Where as a guy like Vincent Jackson has been consistently at the top though like Floyd its because of the vertical offense which pads those stats
                          Last edited by Joshecalpoly; 05-21-2014, 05:16 PM.
                          2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

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                          • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                            Look guy this is your thread I never attacked Marshall, you come in here bragging about Terrell Owens 2.0 and nobody cares about his stats cause your team didn't make the playoffs. Go argue with Lions fans about why you think Cutler & Marshall are better than Megatron and Stafford. We got seahawk, Patriot, and Charger fans to argue with, you know playoff teams.
                            In other words the adults are talking go find a shiny toy and put in your mouth.
                            Actually Beagle started this thread.....Chitown just seems to be responding to every Bronco fan.

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                            • Originally posted by bears6385 View Post
                              Actually Beagle started this thread.....Chitown just seems to be responding to every Bronco fan.
                              Bears fans respond more to the treads on here then nearly any other team except the Chargers. Its either they are jealous and have a mile high complex and feel inferior enough that they need to defend themselves constantly, or they just secretly wish we kept our offensive talent LOL JK. Seriously though its kind of amazing how often you guys feel the need to defend yourselves on here. We pick on you guys a lot but thats because you respond whenever we attack the Raiders its like crickets chirping

                              Though paying your QB and WR top tier salary for not making the playoffs in 3 years and winning 1 playoff game the 1 year theyve ever made it in there careers. Ild feel the need to defend my team every chance I got.

                              Your team was always best when the D was good the more you move away from that the worse chances youve had at making the playoffs. Though I have to say your offense does look scary
                              Last edited by Joshecalpoly; 05-21-2014, 05:43 PM.
                              2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

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                              • Originally posted by Joshecalpoly View Post
                                Bears fans respond more to the treads on here then nearly any other team except the Chargers. Its either they are jealous and have a mile high complex and feel inferior enough that they need to defend themselves constantly, or they just secretly wish we kept our offensive talent LOL JK. Seriously though its kind of amazing how often you guys feel the need to defend yourselves on here.
                                They feel the need because the last time they played Denver they lost to Tebow....after they had the ball with the lead with under 2 minutes left which lets be honest probably set the Bears Franchise back 10 years, so they need to talk about something anything positive.
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