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  • Originally posted by arapaho View Post
    so basically what BAPROD is saying is

    elway never put in a call to mannings agent...never called manning....never showed manning the stadium, facilities, the area...never took him out on the town...never discussed plans if manning came here...fox never called manning...never discussed his plans and the team and talent with manning....


    nobody did a dam thing at all zero!!! nothing!!! to get manning to come to denver


    instead it was all simply manning on his own decided to call....manning luckily just showed up in denver at a nuggets game with some players...lucky for fox and elway that manning showed up at the same resturaunt they were eating in....manning was cruzing denver and got lost.....LUCKILY for denver he ended up at the team facilities where he was given a tour and discussion

    yep its illogical to think elway and fox did any thing at all in the slightest to get manning to decide on denver...then to top it off.....manning drew straws...and kaplunk...manning fell in our laps


    buuuuwaaaaahaaaa haaa good one!!
    .....dont think baph can even breath after that lol
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    Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite and furthermore always carry a small snake.

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    • Originally posted by canadiansbronco View Post
      .....dont think baph can even breath after that lol
      Never under estimate Stupidity. It has a way of rising from the ashes of a defeated argument like a cancer.
      Originally posted by baphamet
      are you talking career or right now? because i don't see how you can say manning is top 5 even healthy.dude will never be a top 5 QB again, he is done.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by arapaho View Post
        so basically what BAPROD is saying is

        elway never put in a call to mannings agent...never called manning....never showed manning the stadium, facilities, the area...never took him out on the town...never discussed plans if manning came here...fox never called manning...never discussed his plans and the team and talent with manning....


        nobody did a dam thing at all zero!!! nothing!!! to get manning to come to denver


        instead it was all simply manning on his own decided to call....manning luckily just showed up in denver at a nuggets game with some players...lucky for fox and elway that manning showed up at the same resturaunt they were eating in....manning was cruzing denver and got lost.....LUCKILY for denver he ended up at the team facilities where he was given a tour and discussion

        yep its illogical to think elway and fox did any thing at all in the slightest to get manning to decide on denver...then to top it off.....manning drew straws...and kaplunk...manning fell in our laps


        buuuuwaaaaahaaaa haaa good one!!
        Well we were lucky Helton called Denver home, that had a lot to do with his decision, especially since he worked out with him here during the lockout. Manning has said not just Elway but Helton were both big factors in convincing him to move here. Helton is considered one of Mannings best friends and college back up, and ive heard roommate (though im not so sure) to Manning, and since he could not workout with NFL staff during the offseason the rockies staff and Helton helped him out in his recovery
        Last edited by Joshecalpoly; 12-05-2012, 02:48 PM.
        2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

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        • We might have finally found something that Melvin > Von

          ...

          Kicking!

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          • Originally posted by baphamet View Post
            so because he is peyton manning he can play till he is 50? ROFL!
            This is what is called a straw man argument boys and girls. Baph can't stick to what I actually said, so he has to make up figures in an attempt to make me have to discredit them instead of sticking to the merits of the argument. A tactic used by those losing an argument normally.

            Nobody said 50. You said one or two years. That's laughable.

            as if favre is this scrub QB not worthy to be mentioned in the same breath as manning.
            Yes. To anyone not a complete stat ho this is clear. Favre cant hold Manning's jock strap. Favre is the Emmit Smith of RBs. Decent player at his position that played long enough to pad his stats.

            favre had an elite level season in 2009 a year before he retired, that was the one and only point i was making which somehow eluded you.
            It didn't elude me. It just wasn't relevant. Which I explained in the post you quoted, which clearly eluded you. lol

            QB's typically don't usually make it to 40, maybe manning will but his ability will most certainly taper off long before that, it human nature.
            You're right. They don't usually. Then again most QBs aren't Peyton Manning, who

            a: never relied on the strength of his arm in the first place (not so with Favre)
            b: has been the least sacked QB of his generation due to his style of play (really not so with Favre)
            c: is clearly one of the favorites to be named MVP this year (not so with Favre this late in his career)

            et cetera et cetera

            Manning is not Favre. Even if he was, that means he would go another 3-4 years which makes your 1-2 year assumption fly in the face of your own argument. Congratulations. You lose.
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            • Originally posted by kishzilla View Post
              This is what is called a straw man argument boys and girls. Baph can't stick to what I actually said, so he has to make up figures in an attempt to make me have to discredit them instead of sticking to the merits of the argument. A tactic used by those losing an argument normally.

              Nobody said 50. You said one or two years. That's laughable.
              the fact that you think the rules of human nature don't seem to apply to manning because he is a great QB is the point. what argument am i losing? you think that saying manning will play at elite level until he is 40+ based on how good he is playing now is you winning an argument?

              every single QB is human kish, yes even peyton manning, crazy right? QB's don't retire between the ages of 35-40 because its just the thing to do lol

              but you would have to actually not be a delusional donko fan and at least somewhat realistic to see that.



              Yes. To anyone not a complete stat ho this is clear. Favre cant hold Manning's jock strap. Favre is the Emmit Smith of RBs. Decent player at his position that played long enough to pad his stats.
              he played at a very high level at the end of his career, that is the only reason i mentioned him. you made the argument that because manning is playing at an elite level, that he can then play for years.

              i disproved that by mentioning favre, which then you replied about how favre isn't even on manning's level, which not only isn't true IMO, its irrelevant to what i was saying.

              besides, if anyone was to play to 40 it was favre. he was much more durable than manning, manning has already had health problems and had shown wear.

              another thing you are not considering is what if manning just doesn't want to keep playing? what if the aches and pains of life in the NFL start to really bother him? ive heard many players talk about that when they get older. players dont always retire just because a team doesn't want them anymore, especially QB's.



              It didn't elude me. It just wasn't relevant. Which I explained in the post you quoted, which clearly eluded you. lol
              what you explained makes no sense. because manning is a better QB than favre, that makes it more likely he will have more longevity or last as long as he did? is that what you are saying kish?

              favre is the most durable and long lasting QB to play the game, you may think manning is on another level but that is what is irrelevant when it comes to durability and longevity.

              again, manning has already missed an entire season due to injury.



              You're right. They don't usually. Then again most QBs aren't Peyton Manning, who

              a: never relied on the strength of his arm in the first place (not so with Favre)
              b: has been the least sacked QB of his generation due to his style of play (really not so with Favre)
              c: is clearly one of the favorites to be named MVP this year (not so with Favre this late in his career)

              et cetera et cetera

              Manning is not Favre. Even if he was, that means he would go another 3-4 years which makes your 1-2 year assumption fly in the face of your own argument. Congratulations. You lose.
              a. favre didn't retire because of lack of arm strength

              b. getting sacked is not the issue and it isn't why QB's retire other than because of concussion which isn't that common anymore, manning gets the ball out quick and makes quick reads, that's why he doesn't get sacked a lot, marino was the same way.

              manning isn't super human just because he is a good QB and to be clear, i said he would retire or his production would dip in 1-2 years which would make him 38 years old.

              if you think that is not a reasonable and accurate assumption you are kidding yourself and making yourself out to be pretty foolish for denying it.

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              • Originally posted by Beagle View Post
                Yes puddlegum Ingram is an epic fail...how many first round picks don't start until week 13..other than qbs?
                Your knowledge of the history of Charger 1st round draft picks is obviously...incomplete.

                Originally posted by Beagle View Post
                How many of them are drafted for their pass rush ability and have only 1/2 sack?
                As I said, incomplete...

                Originally posted by Beagle View Post
                Now that i answered your question how about you learn to read and comprehend. The epic fail I was actually referring to was this thread obviously....
                If it was that obvious, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Besides, when communicating using the written word the onus of understanding is on the writer.

                Originally posted by Beagle View Post
                How could this epic fail have faded away....still only 1/2 sack for Ingram

                Miller in the hunt for League MVP and Defensive MVP....

                Prove me wrong
                This thread is 48 pages, I skim the last 3 or so before I post. I'm not going to apologize for that.

                Originally posted by Beagle View Post
                dont let your panties get in a wad so easily. Larry English and now Ingram. Don't sweat it your new GM will have a top 5-6 pick to play with next year maybe he can not draft a bust.
                I'll skip the childish panty remark and go straight to a decent point you made. English vs Ingram. There are actually many similarities, too many for my liking really. However, there is one major difference and that is that Ingram actually plays. If you've been watching the games you'll know that he should have more than half a sack. Ingram is always there in the backfield but somehow making that big play eludes him. It was the same thing with Liuget last year. Liuget made strides this year and has become a playmaker for us. I'm hoping Ingram does the same next year.

                Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                manning had his choice of several teams...some more talented, some offering the world...HE CHOSE the broncos because we fit what he was looking for to end his career
                I'm thinking you're right on this one, I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that discussion with Archie.

                Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                you honestly think manning wanted to risk his legecy going from a perinial contender in indy..to the broncos who hadnt had a winning season since 2006 if he didnt think we had the talent, coaches and team that his talents could have success with
                Not at all, he wanted to win and he thought he could do it with the Broncos.

                Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                it was not luck...he did not fall into our lap
                The irony here Arapho and it's not your fault, is that it WAS Luck. Luck being targeted in the draft is what dislodged Peyton Manning, arguably the greatest QB of all time, and he was looking for a landing spot. I think Denver offered him the greatest control over the offense among other things so he choose Denver. He CHOSE to fall into your laps. It's not an insult, don't take it that way. Peyton obviously thought your team had something to offer. It's a compliment, to the whole organization really.

                Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                the statement that von also fell into our lap is stupidity....half the bronco baords were in a uproar..we needed a DT for years...elway seen something special in von and fox beleived he could make it work...when the safe pick was darius....von did not fall into our laps
                From a draft perspective you could say that. It would be like saying beer is yeast piss, while technically true it's ignoring the finer points. I would have called him a reach on draft day, shows you what I know. It also shows that whoever is calling the shots in Dove Valley may know a thing or two about football.

                Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                unsure if von fits?
                2nd in sacks per LBr...3rd overall with 15...
                leads all Lbs in tackles for loss
                2nd in qb hits
                1st in forced fumbles
                1 int returned for TD

                i'd venture to say he fits very well
                I knew I screwed up just as soon as I started seeing responses to this one. Yes, I am still unsure if Von fits at a 4-3 LBer. As far as I'm concerned he is now the mold for a 3-4 OLB. He's got the speed, instincts, technique, and tackling ability to be a top 3-4 OLB. Don't get me wrong Del Rio uses him well, and he most certainly has a place on your team. I just can't remember the last time I saw him in coverage (again, I've only seen 1 Bronco game this year) and until I see him cover well I'm going to say he's more 3-4 OLB than 4-3 LB.

                Originally posted by DishWater View Post
                If his present production proved to be in spite of a system that wasn't right for him, I can't even fathom what he would produce if he were in the "right" system.

                We'd not be talking about a great defender -- we'd be talking about the greatest football player to have ever lived.

                No: He's just fine where he is -- the best defender in the league on a Super Bowl-calibur team...
                Agreed. I can't tell you how glad I am the Steelers didn't land the kid.
                Last edited by Puddleglum; 12-06-2012, 08:46 AM.
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                • Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                  so basically what BAPROD is saying is

                  elway never put in a call to mannings agent...never called manning....never showed manning the stadium, facilities, the area...never took him out on the town...never discussed plans if manning came here...fox never called manning...never discussed his plans and the team and talent with manning....


                  nobody did a dam thing at all zero!!! nothing!!! to get manning to come to denver


                  instead it was all simply manning on his own decided to call....manning luckily just showed up in denver at a nuggets game with some players...lucky for fox and elway that manning showed up at the same resturaunt they were eating in....manning was cruzing denver and got lost.....LUCKILY for denver he ended up at the team facilities where he was given a tour and discussion

                  yep its illogical to think elway and fox did any thing at all in the slightest to get manning to decide on denver...then to top it off.....manning drew straws...and kaplunk...manning fell in our laps


                  buuuuwaaaaahaaaa haaa good one!!
                  so you are saying Denver was the only team to do that and that's why he picked them? no other team called manning, invited him in, gave him tours and all that jazz? only the broncos, right?

                  give me a freakin break you silly ass homer

                  this is getting rather ridiculous dude, let it go, the doinks did nothing every other team that wanted him did. in fact, they did less than what tenn did by offering him less money.

                  he picked your team and you guys are lucky he did, deal with it.

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                  • Originally posted by Beagle View Post
                    Never under estimate Stupidity. It has a way of rising from the ashes of a defeated argument like a cancer.
                    never underestimate how pathetic it is to smack talk someone on your ignore list.

                    some people just cant handle smack, call others trolls because they get smacked down, then continue to troll themselves.

                    must suck to be you.

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                    • Originally posted by baphamet View Post
                      so you are saying Denver was the only team to do that and that's why he picked them? no other team called manning, invited him in, gave him tours and all that jazz? only the broncos, right?

                      give me a freakin break you silly ass homer

                      this is getting rather ridiculous dude, let it go, the doinks did nothing every other team that wanted him did. in fact, they did less than what tenn did by offering him less money.

                      he picked your team and you guys are lucky he did, deal with it.



                      am i saying that denver was the omly team that made eforts to land manning?...no never said it never implied it never meant it? where you come up with that stupid idea is beyond me

                      heres what your saying...l.that denver did nothing to bring manning here...nothing!!!...what was your latest statement

                      "you didn't work on anything" ...."but by all means, you can think that your team did all this extra work to convince him, its pure speculation and baseless garbage",





                      the only baseless garbage is your opinions....
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                      • Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                        am i saying that denver was the omly team that made eforts to land manning?...no never said it never implied it never meant it? where you come up with that stupid idea is beyond me

                        heres what your saying...l.that denver did nothing to bring manning here...nothing!!!...what was your latest statement

                        "you didn't work on anything" ...."but by all means, you can think that your team did all this extra work to convince him, its pure speculation and baseless garbage",





                        the only baseless garbage is your opinions....
                        they didn't do any extra work to bring in manning, they didn't do any more work than any other team did and offered less money that the titans, so why even mention something so stupid?

                        that was my point. you are basically saying that every single FA signing when multiple teams are interested, signs with the team they signed with because that team did the most work to bring them in.

                        lol that's ridiculous to even suggest.

                        also, as i have told you before, i never said it was pure luck and that manning just randomly picked the broncos. i am sure he had his reasons for picking the broncos and you can speculate what those reasons are all you want.

                        but what we do know for certain is he didn't pick the broncos based on winning potential or talent around him, due to the fact that SF had more to offer in that regard.

                        which is why i say you are lucky he did pick you, not that its pure luck, just that he had other very viable options, options that were better than going to Denver IMO

                        so keep on crying and pretending that isn't a reasonable and fair argument because you know damn well that it is.

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                        • I knew I screwed up just as soon as I started seeing responses to this one. Yes, I am still unsure if Von fits at a 4-3 LBer. As far as I'm concerned he is now the mold for a 3-4 OLB. He's got the speed, instincts, technique, and tackling ability to be a top 3-4 OLB. Don't get me wrong Del Rio uses him well, and he most certainly has a place on your team. I just can't remember the last time I saw him in coverage (again, I've only seen 1 Bronco game this year) and until I see him cover well I'm going to say he's more 3-4 OLB than 4-3 LB.
                          How about last week when he had an int for a td or how about he has coverageresponsibility on 1st or 2nd down just about every play of the season.He is only playing pure pass rusher on 3rd down and obvious passing situations. As far as using English as an example of a first rounder not starting until the 13th game of the season as proof Ingrams not a failure LOL English himself is a bust
                          Originally posted by baphamet
                          are you talking career or right now? because i don't see how you can say manning is top 5 even healthy.dude will never be a top 5 QB again, he is done.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by baphamet View Post
                            they didn't do any extra work to bring in manning, they didn't do any more work than any other team did and offered less money that the titans, so why even mention something so stupid?

                            that was my point. you are basically saying that every single FA signing when multiple teams are interested, signs with the team they signed with because that team did the most work to bring them in.

                            lol that's ridiculous to even suggest.

                            also, as i have told you before, i never said it was pure luck and that manning just randomly picked the broncos. i am sure he had his reasons for picking the broncos and you can speculate what those reasons are all you want.

                            but what we do know for certain is he didn't pick the broncos based on winning potential or talent around him, due to the fact that SF had more to offer in that regard.

                            which is why i say you are lucky he did pick you, not that its pure luck, just that he had other very viable options, options that were better than going to Denver IMO

                            so keep on crying and pretending that isn't a reasonable and fair argument because you know damn well that it is.
                            im not talking about every free agent am i

                            we are talking about manning and your erroneous statements that the broncos organization did nothing at all to get manning to come here...all simply luck that he chose us


                            how DO you know he didnt pick us on talent?...do you know that or is it another of your everincreasing BULLCRAP theorys

                            with kuper, clady, beadles, franklin and walton we had a group of young solid oline men...great start for a qb

                            we had some big wrs that showed flashes of potential

                            we had a solid running game

                            we had a strong defense and a noted coach comeing to the team in del rio

                            the west is weak and ripe for the taking

                            a solid proven head coach and a great leader in elway

                            an OC that showed the willingnes to bend the offense to the qbs strengths


                            how do you know he didnt choose us for reasons like those over a team and coach like the 49rs

                            you dont
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                            • Originally posted by baphamet View Post
                              the fact that you think the rules of human nature don't seem to apply to manning because he is a great QB is the point. what argument am i losing? you think that saying manning will play at elite level until he is 40+ based on how good he is playing now is you winning an argument?

                              every single QB is human kish, yes even peyton manning, crazy right? QB's don't retire between the ages of 35-40 because its just the thing to do lol

                              but you would have to actually not be a delusional donko fan and at least somewhat realistic to see that.





                              he played at a very high level at the end of his career, that is the only reason i mentioned him. you made the argument that because manning is playing at an elite level, that he can then play for years.

                              i disproved that by mentioning favre, which then you replied about how favre isn't even on manning's level, which not only isn't true IMO, its irrelevant to what i was saying.

                              besides, if anyone was to play to 40 it was favre. he was much more durable than manning, manning has already had health problems and had shown wear.

                              another thing you are not considering is what if manning just doesn't want to keep playing? what if the aches and pains of life in the NFL start to really bother him? ive heard many players talk about that when they get older. players dont always retire just because a team doesn't want them anymore, especially QB's.





                              what you explained makes no sense. because manning is a better QB than favre, that makes it more likely he will have more longevity or last as long as he did? is that what you are saying kish?

                              favre is the most durable and long lasting QB to play the game, you may think manning is on another level but that is what is irrelevant when it comes to durability and longevity.

                              again, manning has already missed an entire season due to injury.





                              a. favre didn't retire because of lack of arm strength

                              b. getting sacked is not the issue and it isn't why QB's retire other than because of concussion which isn't that common anymore, manning gets the ball out quick and makes quick reads, that's why he doesn't get sacked a lot, marino was the same way.

                              manning isn't super human just because he is a good QB and to be clear, i said he would retire or his production would dip in 1-2 years which would make him 38 years old.

                              if you think that is not a reasonable and accurate assumption you are kidding yourself and making yourself out to be pretty foolish for denying it.
                              Jesus christ dude. You really cant follow a damned sentence or conversation. I'm not going to go through the effort to explain what I already explained in simple frickin english.

                              You start replying to ish before you even read the whole damned post. Read the whole thing. Digest it for a moment. Understand what the person is saying, and then respond. ffs

                              Manning is not Favre. Anything that happened with Favre is not relevant to Manning. He was born on a separate date to separate parents. Different person. What don't you get?

                              Favre is not relevant.

                              Favre is not relevant.



                              Should I write it on a bat and beat you with it so it gets through that head of yours? lol
                              Last edited by kishzilla; 12-06-2012, 05:09 PM.
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                              • 4 tackles, 1 FF, 1 sack for Von...

                                Keeps on beasting it up.

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