Melvin Ingram > Von Miller

[SDERA]

it can also a hell of a lot of times result in a 1st down or a td ...just like melvins pressure tonight

heres the part you fail to grasp...a pressure...CAN CAUSE A LOSS OF DOWN OR AN INT, nobody here ever said it couldn't

but a sack can cause a loss of down too, lost yardage and a fumble....it can almost never without penalty result in a offensive td or first down
your insisting a pressure is better then a sack...it isn't.....UNLESS THE QB THROWS A PICK, AND A SACK DOESNT RESULT IN A FUMBLE

what was the signature turning point in the colts comeback...was it pressure....OR THE SACK THAT RESULTED IN A COLTS FUMBLE RECOVERY

I GAURANTEE there is more 1st downs or completed passes and or tds from qbs under pressure then there is ints

how many tds or 1st downs are there from sacks

I'd like Melvin to finish a sack too, but again a little over 6 months ago he tore his ACL so he's probably a step slower than he would be otherwise. I'm just happy to see he's flying around like he was today, he made a huge impact on this game.

I think long term he turns into a 10 sack per season type guy, he certainly beats his man enough eventually he'll start running into them by accident.

BTW I think only Ben and maybe Rodgers actually get statistically better when flushed from the pocket. Other than that it's a dramatic dip for the likes of Manning, Brady, Brees etc...

[arapaho]

A pressure doesnt automatical mean hes flushed from the pocket...he could also simply step up or to the side....he can also simply take the pressure and hit and still complete the pass knowing the hits comeing

this whole aurgement is just bap insisting pressure is better then.a sack

a pressure isnt absalute...it can result in many things....tds..1st downs...completions..scrambling for a first....and yes incomplets and occasionaly ints

a sack is absalute...the down is over

and thats what they dont get

[baphamet]

A pressure doesnt automatical mean hes flushed from the pocket...he could also simply step up or to the side....he can also simply take the pressure and hit and still complete the pass knowing the hits comeing

this whole aurgement is just bap insisting pressure is better then.a sack

a pressure isnt absalute...it can result in many things....tds..1st downs...completions..scrambling for a first....and yes incomplets and occasionaly ints

a sack is absalute...the down is over

and thats what they dont get

i realize not every pressure has an effect on the outcome of the play, which is why i say it can be better than a sack.

just don't sit up there and act like only sacks matter and pressures are meaningless. all i see is people talking about the pressure the charges put on dalton and yet you guys have been denying all year that pressures matter.

ingram has played pretty good and this defense has clearly improved since he has been back yet he doesn't get a lot of sacks so you continue to smack him like he sucks? its just pure football ignorance and/or trolling.

[arapaho]

i realize not every pressure has an effect on the outcome of the play, which is why i say it can be better than a sack.

just don't sit up there and act like only sacks matter and pressures are meaningless. all i see is people talking about the pressure the charges put on dalton and yet you guys have been denying all year that pressures matter.

ingram has played pretty good and this defense has clearly improved since he has been back yet he doesn't get a lot of sacks so you continue to smack him like he sucks? its just pure football ignorance and/or trolling.

nobody ever said pressure is meaningless rod


what we have said waaaaaay too many times...is your putting waaaay to much credit to simple pressure and insisting its better then a sack to justify melvns rookie season.

furthermore...how can pressure be better then a sack? as you keep insisting

the best possible outcome is a errant throw picked off and taken back for six....how is that better then a sack, fumble recovery run back for the score...how?

given the two stats best circumstance...pressure int returned for 6 is is not better then a sack fumble returned for six
they are equal

factor in the rest...a sack the down is dead

a pressure, can still result in a completion, can be a 1st down, can be a TD


now shut the hell up and quit sniveling about pressure being better then a sack

[Matymaddog]

the dude has played one year in the NFL. if he has a beak out season in a few years i am going to bump this like you did the moreno thread.

oh what am i thinking, you would just deny everything anyways

This was going to be his breakout season. I firmly believe that. So now it will be next season. The Broncos fan in me doesn't want it to happen but the football fan in me wants to see Melvin reach his potential. The kid is a monster. I wanted him or Bruce Irvin in a Bronco Uni across from Von in the worst ways.

[super_boltz]

why is he better suited for the 4-3? and i have seen many people that disagree that he didn't look good in his drills at the combine.

Ingram is easily athletic enough to play LB in a 3-4 scheme and is more versatile than a lot of guys that play OLB in a 3-4 defense.

so i am not too sure what you mean by this.

Lol Donko fans don't know he was a running back and can run like no other. Agility off the charts... That Int straight to him... some guys drop that... not melvin... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0_dovhlmJs

[ERoyal248]

He's looked pretty good as of late.

Not even getting into the QB Hit/pressure crap.

[Thrasher]

on topic: I agree if one of the two is injured. Not gonna tell you which one.

[SDERA]

A pressure doesnt automatical mean hes flushed from the pocket...he could also simply step up or to the side....he can also simply take the pressure and hit and still complete the pass knowing the hits comeing

this whole aurgement is just bap insisting pressure is better then.a sack

a pressure isnt absalute...it can result in many things....tds..1st downs...completions..scrambling for a first....and yes incomplets and occasionaly ints

a sack is absalute...the down is over

and thats what they dont get

I don't think any rational person wouldn't rather have a sack. But the consistent pressure leads to mistakes, mistakes which led to turnovers and bad throws.

The point is 6 months after a serious knee injury Melvin is making things happen that were not happening nearly enough prior to his return. We have a better defense today than we had at any point during the first 12 weeks of the season, an Melvin is a big part of that.

The sacks will come, it's like hitting a baseball, if you keep hitting line drives eventually they start leaving the yard.

[arapaho]

I don't think any rational person wouldn't rather have a sack. But the consistent pressure leads to mistakes, mistakes which led to turnovers and bad throws.

The point is 6 months after a serious knee injury Melvin is making things happen that were not happening nearly enough prior to his return. We have a better defense today than we had at any point during the first 12 weeks of the season, an Melvin is a big part of that.

The sacks will come, it's like hitting a baseball, if you keep hitting line drives eventually they start leaving the yard.

so your saying baphemet is not rational...I agree :thumb:


yes I agree, Melvin shows some ability, Melvin was injured, Melvin has played ok, but still the whole dragging on conversation started with you bolts guys stating...Melvin> miller...that's why his production is an emphasis

in that bap has insisted Melvin gets pressures so he's one of the best pass rushers...read back further if you wanna see his fantasy stat story that supposedly shows Melvin is a top ten pass rusher as a rookie


we have refuted that notion, insisting that just because he gets some pressure, doesn't make him one of the best

to play the position he must also produce sacks, qb hits, strips, tackles for loss, a pressure can be recorded simply by making the qb step up in the pocket...results matter...whereas bap insists pressures are better then sacks

Melvin in his rookie yr got a few pressures...I sack...1ff...2 qb hits...4 tackles for loss

miller in his rookie seasons...12 sacks...3 ff..24 qb hits...19 tackles for loss

so you see miller not only got pressure...but he finished

[atwaterandstir]

He's looked pretty good as of late.

Not even getting into the QB Hit/pressure crap.

I agree....he played a big part in that win. Hes a good player and one we have to contain.

Makes me really wish we had Von Miller to cause the same type of havoc. I think we may see Phillips step up this weekend though.

[baphamet]

so your saying baphemet is not rational...I agree :thumb:


yes I agree, Melvin shows some ability, Melvin was injured, Melvin has played ok, but still the whole dragging on conversation started with you bolts guys stating...Melvin> miller...that's why his production is an emphasis

in that bap has insisted Melvin gets pressures so he's one of the best pass rushers...read back further if you wanna see his fantasy stat story that supposedly shows Melvin is a top ten pass rusher as a rookie


we have refuted that notion, insisting that just because he gets some pressure, doesn't make him one of the best

to play the position he must also produce sacks, qb hits, strips, tackles for loss, a pressure can be recorded simply by making the qb step up in the pocket...results matter...whereas bap insists pressures are better then sacks

Melvin in his rookie yr got a few pressures...I sack...1ff...2 qb hits...4 tackles for loss

miller in his rookie seasons...12 sacks...3 ff..24 qb hits...19 tackles for loss

so you see miller not only got pressure...but he finished

umm actually, i totally agree with that, unless said pressure forced an int of course. and no i never said he was one of the best pass rushers, that's just another lie.

never said anything near that, your argument that sparked this debate is a compete and utter failure. you think only sacks matter and that is just pure football ignorance lol

oh i forgot, you also think tackles matter to a pass rusher as well

pressures are more relevant to a pass rusher than tackles, unless you are talking about tackles for loss only. nevermind actually watching the guy play and seeing how disruptive he has been.....nope, he didn't get many sacks so he SUX!!!......that's arapaho logic for ya, MR. stat watcher extraordinaire.

[-Rod-]

Thanks for reminding me that Melvin Ingram plays in the NFL.

[SDERA]

so your saying baphemet is not rational...I agree :thumb:


yes I agree, Melvin shows some ability, Melvin was injured, Melvin has played ok, but still the whole dragging on conversation started with you bolts guys stating...Melvin> miller...that's why his production is an emphasis

in that bap has insisted Melvin gets pressures so he's one of the best pass rushers...read back further if you wanna see his fantasy stat story that supposedly shows Melvin is a top ten pass rusher as a rookie


we have refuted that notion, insisting that just because he gets some pressure, doesn't make him one of the best

to play the position he must also produce sacks, qb hits, strips, tackles for loss, a pressure can be recorded simply by making the qb step up in the pocket...results matter...whereas bap insists pressures are better then sacks

Melvin in his rookie yr got a few pressures...I sack...1ff...2 qb hits...4 tackles for loss

miller in his rookie seasons...12 sacks...3 ff..24 qb hits...19 tackles for loss

so you see miller not only got pressure...but he finished

1. I don't know what Baph is trying to say I'm just explaining what I think.

2. I stay away from the Miller v Ingram comparison. Though I think their versatility is similar we have no reasonable argument at the moment that Ingram is in the same ball park. Slave to realism as I am.

3. All that is not to say Ingram won't be an excellent player down the line, maybe even a Pro Bowler someday. He's just not Miller.

[arapaho]

1. I don't know what Baph is trying to say I'm just explaining what I think.

2. I stay away from the Miller v Ingram comparison. Though I think their versatility is similar we have no reasonable argument at the moment that Ingram is in the same ball park. Slave to realism as I am.

3. All that is not to say Ingram won't be an excellent player down the line, maybe even a Pro Bowler someday. He's just not Miller.

don't blame you....nobody can follow baps logic