Tom Brady vs Peyton Manning

[SixStringMadnes]

I find it interesting that in a debate like this, it seems the only way to validate one's team/QB, is to express how terrible the other is, and to point out all their flaws. At what point does one realize that if the other is so bad in a debate where the two sides are so close, than your team/QB must not be all that great either.

Brady has easily the best coach on his sideline, and has consistently for his pro career. Belichick is the guy that can not only beat you with his guys, but could also beat his guys with yours. Brady has easily had the better defense's backing him up, and more than likely a better GM sitting in the box. Not sure what the Pats spent offense/defense wise from a GM standpoint, but the Colts went all out offense. Sold lots of tickets, built a new stadium, a few future HOF players, and a whiney ungrateful owner. However, I do know the Pats invested in some video equipment along the way..... So I guess that has to be figured in there somewhere too.....

BTW, who threw a pick at the end of the 2006 AFC championship game?

Bottom line, the Patriots as and organization just did it better. I mean come on, Robert Kraft vs Jim Irsay....

Either guy, put on a great team, would win multiple SB's, MVPs, etc.... Of the two, I think Manning makes a poor to mediocre team a better team than Brady does. Seen when, one year without Manning hand delivered the number one draft pick to the Colts. A year without Brady gave a QB who never started a college football game a franchise tag, and starting job on a new team a year later.

The Colts were built around Manning, including a defense predicated on playing with a lead. Not necessarily the best formula for playing 3 to 4 playoff battles in a row. Last time I checked, Manning took to the field with several other dudes in those playoff games. Just look at how the AFC South built their teams, and how close the Colts divisional games were compared to the Pats. The Pats just had a better overall formula, from the top down, beyond the guys on the field and sidelines.

I've been a Manning fan since his college days, so I'm always going to pick Manning over Brady, I've seen much more of his career than Brady's. A Pats fan will always pick Brady, they've seen more of Brady's career. If all things are equal, in a utopian universe, both would be playing each other in every super bowl for the past decade, and they would be epic overtime battles, where the last one to score wins.

[58Miller]

He's not better than a 100 percent Gronk.

Game should be close. I don't see either team winning by more than 10. But I like our chances giving how well we do against John Fox/Jack Del Rio defenses. I think the Belichick coaching advantage is a huge one in this case.

I think Peyton is the real leader of the Broncos, not Fox. He's just a figurehead and plays it conservative in big games...like when he knelt the ball with 30 seconds left in the playoffs last year only needing a field goal.

I'm sorry Welker is better than any wide receiver on your team.
I agree Fox is too conservative. He's driving a Corvette 60 mph in the fast lane. When Denver gets behind a couple scores he'll let loose.
New Englands best shot is staying close and winning in the late 4th.
They jump out to a two score lead Fox will let the dogs loose and Denver will run the pats off the field.
Fox doesn't understand the firepower he's got.
For the first time in a long time Denver has more weapons/ playmakers on both sides of the ball.

[peytonsforehead]

Those 03-04 Pats championship teams were very special all the way around...the defense, Brady, special teams, coaching, balanced offense that wasn't flashy but performed at the right time. The 2001 team was fun to watch but very unexpected. I expected the Pats to win the SB in 03 and 04 (especially 04) because of the complete team, including Brady and the defense and all the other units.

All we heard back then (and I'm not talking about you or Broncos fans, but from the media and Colts fans) is "They're boring to watch. They win ugly games." And all we heard about was how Peyton was going to destroy us in the playoffs (this was before Peyton figured out the Pats a little and had some success.) Then when we won, the Colts just complained to the league to get defensive rules changed. Then we beat them again the next year with the rules changed and it was "The Pats are lucky."

That's why a lot of Pats fans have a chip on their shoulder regarding Peyton. We acknowledge he's great (most of us anyway) but those teams were once in a lifetime, and all we heard about was Peyton and the Colts offense.

Then the Colts beat us that year in the playoffs, Belichick got butthurt and completely changed his philosophy and basically turned into a better version of the Colts.

I think the reason Belichick got rid of Welker is because he saw the offense was going nowhere in the playoffs and was willing to do an overhaul on offense (he also didn't suspect that Hernandez had a secret life as a gangster and was counting on the two TE set.) Also, Welker spoke to the local media recently I guess and there was a lot of bad blood between him and Belichick and Kraft.

Patriots offense isn't going to be like it was in 2007-2012...but I expect it to get a little better by the end of the season and into the playoffs. Our running attack this year is very underrated. Brady's passer rating and completion percentage is awful, but a lot of the reason he only has 9 TDs is because they pretty much run it in every time they're in the red zone. He could easily have 13/14 TDs now. But that doesn't excuse his bad throws and the dropped passes when he makes good throws.

One thing I worry about as a Pats fan is Thompkins/Dobson et al pulling a Welker in the playoffs under the bright lights.

[Joshecalpoly]

Manning's had a great O-line his whole career. He had one of the best centers in recent memory in Jeff Saturday.

This is what I mean...you're turning it into a "Poor Peyton...Brady's had all the breaks."

Defense and clutch offense wins championships (sometimes you can win a SB without the clutch offense like the 2000 ravens or the 2006 colts.) Pats D was great as a unit but all the talk was "They're boring, they have no superstars." You can't have it both ways. Other than Richard Seymour and Ty Law (who was out for the year in 2004) no one made the pro bowl on those teams. Bruschi/McGinest etc were solid players and I think the only reason Bruschi made one pro bowl is because Ray Lewis opted out and he was a replacement. They just were a great, disciplined unit and Brady, though his stats are better post 2007, was in my opinion better then. He didn't have the individual talent he has now, but he had more heart and a knack for making the right play at the right time.

It seems as if Broncos/Colts fans want Peyton to go on this rampage that he's not capable of in the playoffs and have these 8 TD games against playoff teams. He's not Joe Montana or anything close. If your team is to win it, it would take a MAJOR overhaul on defense, and for Manning to stop looking like he has a stick up his you know what when the pressure's on, and until proven otherwise, fans of other teams have the right to talk trash because the only year Peyton won, he threw 3 TD and 7 INT in his playoff run, the Colts defense randomly stepped up their game, and also faced Lovie Smith and Rex Grossman in the SB. Breaks like that happen maybe once, but not more than once.

If your team is to go to the SB this year, let alone win it, your defense has to dramatically improve and Peyton needs to see a sports shrink about his anxiety in big games.

The Colts SB road did have to go through the Pats. Our D was one of the best in the league last year but we relied to much on the pass rush and once that was taken away by the Ravens our D had problems, its hard for any D to win without there play caller in the backfield and Lenon is a cheap scrub and Woodyards absence forced us to change our scheme to be simple. People talk about how our D did against the Jags but without the turnover our D would have been just as good against them as Seattle. We went into Indy without our leading pass rusher and play caller on D and an injured Manning our team lost a lot of momentum in that game and despite the one sided whistles and the many punts we stayed with it. Its almost impossible to go into a game without either starting tackle and win in fact according to ESPN its near impossible (franklin played against the skins but not healthy)

Not every QB can throw it deep that consistently or have a receiver that can consistently make deep catches. Not every O-line is going to be able to prevent our team from getting to the QB once they get going. This D can actually be dangerous if Miller gets back to form and our other players remain healthy (including Ihenacho who is currently not predicted to play SD)

[peytonsforehead]

Manning's had a great O-line his whole career. He had one of the best centers in recent memory in Jeff Saturday.

This is what I mean...you're turning it into a "Poor Peyton...Brady's had all the breaks."

Defense and clutch offense wins championships (sometimes you can win a SB without the clutch offense like the 2000 ravens or the 2006 colts.) Pats D was great as a unit but all the talk was "They're boring, they have no superstars." You can't have it both ways. Other than Richard Seymour and Ty Law (who was out for the year in 2004) no one made the pro bowl on those teams. Bruschi/McGinest etc were solid players and I think the only reason Bruschi made one pro bowl is because Ray Lewis opted out and he was a replacement. They just were a great, disciplined unit and Brady, though his stats are better post 2007, was in my opinion better then. He didn't have the individual talent he has now, but he had more heart and a knack for making the right play at the right time.

It seems as if Broncos/Colts fans want Peyton to go on this rampage that he's not capable of in the playoffs and have these 8 TD games against playoff teams. He's not Joe Montana or anything close. If your team is to win it, it would take a MAJOR overhaul on defense, and for Manning to stop looking like he has a stick up his you know what when the pressure's on, and until proven otherwise, fans of other teams have the right to talk trash because the only year Peyton won, he threw 3 TD and 7 INT in his playoff run, the Colts defense randomly stepped up their game, and also faced Lovie Smith and Rex Grossman in the SB. Breaks like that happen maybe once, but not more than once.

If your team is to go to the SB this year, let alone win it, your defense has to dramatically improve and Peyton needs to see a sports shrink about his anxiety in big games.

[Joshecalpoly]

Flashy offense doesn't win championships, just ask Pats fans. I don't care if Brady finishes the year with a 20 qb rating, 40 percent completed passes, and 2,500 yards if he steps it up in the postseason and we continue our balanced attack. Our passing game is off, but this is the best defense we've had since 2005. Even with Mayo out, as long as Talib is healthy and ready in a few weeks (and he's been practicing) we finally have a defense that can shut down opponents. We lost to the Bengals but they only put up 13 points and Dalton just threw 5 TDs last week.

We also have a great running game that will only get better when Vereen gets back.

A lot of Broncos fans, like Colts fans, turn it into some Brady vs. Manning thing because they feel threatened that Brady is an all time great and feel it brings down Peyton's legacy. The reason Peyton Manning teams usually lose in the playoffs is because he plays for poorly coached, undiscliplined, all offense, no defense teams that are easy to shut down in the playoffs when facing a better opponent. Add in him buckling under the pressure and not stepping up his game and untimely turnovers by him, and it makes for a loss.

I wasn't even that big a fan of the 2007 team. I wanted them to go 19-0 once they got that far, but I like a team like the 2004 pats when Brady had a good but not great statistical year (90 something qb rating, 28 TDs) we had Corey Dillon, and a hungry defense like this one that won games with Ty Law gone for the year and heart exceeded talent. I can see why you Bronco fans would be caught up in the offensive fireworks...we experienced it in 2007 and to a lesser degree in 2009-2012...but fancy stats don't win championships.

I expect Kansas City, win or lose, to keep you guys in the teens or early 20s and cause problems for Manning and the receivers.

Agreed the main reason the Pats won was because of their D. Yet it was a Pats fan who started this thread and youve done a lot to turn this into Brady vs Manning. Our D has not been as bad as some have made them out to be Woodyard and Ayers were the heart the leaders of our squad and both were out for 3 games and Miller is still shaking off some rust. During the 3 games our D which is built to play a man coverage scheme was forced to play zone which had disastrous results. People have yet to see our D at the peak yet.

As ive said repeatedly and has been denied by you and Random your team had more stars on D a better overall D and a better running game. Even your O-line has been better then what Manning has had, the only difference is Manning generally spends less time in the pocket. Still the game has changed and this is the best team Manning has been surrounded by so its not to say we dont have a chance.

Our Run D is forces teams to be one dimensional and our passing D when healthy can limit what teams can do our scheme forces long passes and once our pass rush can improve with Miller to limit the ability to sit in the pocket (though thats more hope). Our team does get 1 less QB Hits+Sacks per game then KC and our secondary may not always turn the poorly thrown balls into turnovers but the opportunities do come. Before Woodyard and Ayers got hurt we did have one of the lowest passer ratings allowed per game and our only weakness was the long pass which not all teams can do and can actually change if a pass rush gets going

[peytonsforehead]

Flashy offense doesn't win championships, just ask Pats fans. I don't care if Brady finishes the year with a 20 qb rating, 40 percent completed passes, and 2,500 yards if he steps it up in the postseason and we continue our balanced attack. Our passing game is off at the moment, but this is the best defense we've had since 2005. Even with Mayo out, as long as Talib is healthy and ready in a few weeks (and he's been practicing) we finally have a defense that can shut down opponents. We lost to the Bengals but they only put up 13 points and Dalton just threw 5 TDs last week.

We also have a great running game that will only get better when Vereen gets back.

A lot of Broncos fans, like Colts fans, turn it into some Brady vs. Manning thing because they feel threatened that Brady is an all time great and feel it brings down Peyton's legacy. The reason Peyton Manning teams usually lose in the playoffs is because he plays for poorly coached, undiscliplined, all offense, no defense teams that are easy to shut down in the playoffs when facing a better opponent. Add in him buckling under the pressure and not stepping up his game and untimely turnovers by him, and it makes for a loss.

I wasn't even that big a fan of the 2007 team. I wanted them to go 19-0 once they got that far, but I like a team like the 2004 pats when Brady had a good but not great statistical year (90 something qb rating, 28 TDs) and was clutch in the playoffs and we had Corey Dillon, and a hungry defense like this one that won games with Ty Law gone for the year and their heart exceeded talent. I can see why you Bronco fans would be caught up in the offensive fireworks...we experienced it in 2007 and to a lesser degree in 2009-2012...but fancy stats don't win championships.

I expect Kansas City, win or lose, to keep you guys in the teens or early 20s and cause problems for Manning and the receivers.

[Joshecalpoly]

He's not better than a 100 percent Gronk.

Game should be close. I don't see either team winning by more than 10. But I like our chances giving how well we do against John Fox/Jack Del Rio defenses. I think the Belichick coaching advantage is a huge one in this case.

I think Peyton is the real leader of the Broncos, not Fox. He's just a figurehead and plays it conservative in big games...like when he knelt the ball with 30 seconds left in the playoffs last year only needing a field goal.

Fox has agreed to allow Gase make more decisions on offense especially after the blow back from the playoffs, I think Fox has a tendency to never go for it on 4th down, which in the Colts game really hurt the Broncos. I think if we play that way we wont win against the Pats

Though Tom Brady is 29th right now in yards per attempt, his QBR and passer rating this year is a joke and he has the most off target (in other words not near his receivers) passes in the NFL.

[peytonsforehead]

Welker is a better receiver than anyone on your team and he will have the best game of the year against the pats! Payback is gonna hurt for old Belichek

He's not better than a 100 percent Gronk.

Game should be close. I don't see either team winning by more than 10. But I like our chances giving how well we do against John Fox/Jack Del Rio defenses. I think the Belichick coaching advantage is a huge one in this case.

I think Peyton is the real leader of the Broncos, not Fox. He's just a figurehead and plays it conservative in big games...like when he knelt the ball with 30 seconds left in the playoffs last year only needing a field goal.

[58Miller]

It was both a bad throw and a catch he should have made. He's made much harder catches in both a Pats uniform and made 5 or 6 catches in the Indy game that were much harder than that one.

He was dropping a lot of balls for us last year though even in the regular season, ones right in his bread basket. Not taking anything away from his receiving skills...he's the best slot receiver in the game...but he has a penchant for dropping big ones. He dropped one in the Houston game right in his bread basket that would have given us a first down and iced the game that made the game closer than it had to be and one in the Ravens game that might have led to a scoring drive.

I was more of a Moss fan.

Welker is a better receiver than anyone on your team and he will have the best game of the year against the pats! Payback is gonna hurt for old Belichek

[peytonsforehead]

It was both a bad throw and a catch he should have made. He's made much harder catches in both a Pats uniform and made 5 or 6 catches in the Indy game that were much harder than that one.

He was dropping a lot of balls for us last year though even in the regular season, ones right in his bread basket. Not taking anything away from his receiving skills...he's the best slot receiver in the game...but he has a penchant for dropping big ones. He dropped one in the Houston game right in his bread basket that would have given us a first down and iced the game that made the game closer than it had to be and one in the Ravens game that might have led to a scoring drive.

I was more of a Moss fan.

[ERoyal248]

I'd admit it hit him in the hands and should have been caught but you also have to admit it was a terrible throw. Welker had to jump and spin to catch the damn thing. So don't blame it just on Welker for that drop it was just as much on Brady.

It's a little bit of both, ironically he made a similar catch in Indy this year, where he dropped it in the SB, go figure.

[ERoyal248]

I think Manning wants his TD record back btw, which is why he's throwing inside the 5 a lot more this year. I'm not saying he doesn't want to win a championship too, but I think he really wants the record. He might do it, but his stats are probably going to dip down a little facing defenses like us and the Chiefs and the weather getting colder. That's what happened to Brady in 2007. He had 30 TDs at the midway point and everyone was talking about him throwing 60 TDs, and he barely broke the record in the last game. I think he finishes somewhere between 48-52 TDs. That'd be funny if he tied it lol.

I think he'll fall a bit short, he's been a little off lately.

[Dan Dan]

Any given sunday.

[martz11]

Welker means nothing to me. He dropped a lot of passes right in his bread basket last year, including in the playoffs. Ever since the drop in the SB, he wasn't the same for us.

The only players that mean anything to me are the ones that won rings with us. That's the way it is in Boston. Anything less than a championship is a disappointment.

I'd admit it hit him in the hands and should have been caught but you also have to admit it was a terrible throw. Welker had to jump and spin to catch the damn thing. So don't blame it just on Welker for that drop it was just as much on Brady.