Broncos are Imploding....are you kidding me Denver? You suck!

[ERoyal248]

And how many game-deciding pick-sixes or simple INTs did Brady throw in the NE losses you cite..?

He didn't give any games away, as Manning did and has continually done during his otherwise stellar career, and the NE defense has been the cause of many of those losses.

No comparison at

Why's it have to be a pick-six?

How about two REDZONE picks vs Bal in the 2013 AFCCG?

Fact of the matter is Brady hasnt been much better in big games either, both are chokers lately whether you want to admit it or not.

[ERoyal248]

No comparison at all, if you understand the actual definition of "Choke"

Jets game- Not very good, one garbage time TD made it closer than it appeared.

09 or 10 Bal game- Really awful.

07 SB- Not that great but Giants D was all over Brady that game, 14 points.

11 SB- Played pretty solid but had a chance to finish the game but didnt, 17 points.

Bal AFCCG- Pretty bad, zero 2nd half points.

Den AFCCG- Pretty bad until Den went prevent to eat clock. 3 points through three quarters.

Like i said, both Manning AND Brady have choked lately, you can admit or not but fact holds true.

Before you bring up Manning, most would say Manning has had some playoff yips, but most NE fans act like Brady can do no wrong and basically gets a free pass lately.

[ERoyal248]

You can say the same for Brady his team usually doesn't win when he doesnt play well.

"hidden" by Freeney and Manning? Both are potential HOFers and he also had Gary Brackett Cato June Antoine Bethea and Bob Sanders. He has also had a bunch of solid guys but were unspectacular.

I would argue that Manning has had the better team throughout his career. 2005 Pats were 10-6 Colts were 14-2. Colts had 8 pro bowlers and Pats had 2. Colts went one and done.

Hell Brady took the historically worst defense to ever make a SB in 2011

Willie McGintest, Richard Seymour, Vrabel, Bruschi, Samuel, Rodney Harrison, Wilfork, Ty Warren, among MANY others.

Let's not like Brady hasnt had great defenses every single year. As usual, you make Brady worse than he seems to be acting like he hasnt had a very good team every year, LMAO, keep the excuses coming.

21 PPG per game, 15th in the NFL.

Dont even bring up yards, USELESS stat.

Hardly.

[TommyBrady12]

Why's it have to be a pick-six?

How about two REDZONE picks vs Bal in the 2013 AFCCG?

Fact of the matter is Brady hasnt been much better in big games either, both are chokers lately whether you want to admit it or not.

I like my chances with brady instead of manning in the playoffs, though.

[58Miller]

I like my chances with brady instead of manning in the playoffs, though.

We like our chances too especially since we beat you guys in the AFC Championship game.
Our teams are going to make each other better.

[ERoyal248]

I like my chances with brady instead of manning in the playoffs, though.

Thats fine, both have been chokers lately whether you want to admit or not.

Manning has been better lately than Brady in the playoffs.

[bgpatsfan]

Willie McGintest, Richard Seymour, Vrabel, Bruschi, Samuel, Rodney Harrison, Wilfork, Ty Warren, among MANY others.

Let's not like Brady hasnt had great defenses every single year. As usual, you make Brady worse than he seems to be acting like he hasnt had a very good team every year, LMAO, keep the excuses coming.

21 PPG per game, 15th in the NFL.

Dont even bring up yards, USELESS stat.

Hardly.

Lets look at that defense in 2011:

DE: Mark Anderson (very pedestrian)
DT: Kyle Love (Guy can't start for the Jaguars! Hasn't started since leaving NE)
DT: Vince Wilfork (All-pro)
DE: Shaun Ellis (Washed up recored 1 sack in 7 starts. Retired after that season)
LB: Mayo (Pro Bowl)
LB: Spikes (2 down player who was beat in coverage a lot. Fan favorite but very overrated)
LB: Ninkovich (Second yr as a starter. Came over as a long snapper. Better fit at 43 DE)
CB: Kyle Arrington (Worst starting CB in the league, can't play on outside needs to cover slot. He was beat out by a rookie and will probably be last CB on depth chart this year)
CB: Antwaun Molden/Sterling Moore (Molden hasn't made a team since being on the pats and Moore was a practice squad player after the pats on the cowboys got cut and was brought back as the 4th corner on the worst pass defense team in the league. Couldn't even start in the worst secondary!)
S: McCourty (8th game playing safety. turned into a beast tho)
S: Ihedigbo (1st year starting safety played special teams on the Jets. Below Average to Poor)


Easily worst defense that has made the SB. Julian Edelman was the 3rd corner for crying out load. Beyond Wilfork, Mayo, and McCourty there was no one on that defense. Andre Carter was good for us but he got tore his quad late in the regular season.

[bgpatsfan]

Thats fine, both have been chokers lately whether you want to admit or not.

Manning has been better lately than Brady in the playoffs.

Brady has choked recently, but he has his track record of performance in the postseason to fall back on. Manning has choked recently and he doesn't have the same track record.

[bgpatsfan]

Willie McGintest, Richard Seymour, Vrabel, Bruschi, Samuel, Rodney Harrison, Wilfork, Ty Warren, among MANY others.

Hardly.

My response to this what you don't understand is that those players were all good and solid. None of them outside of Wilfork and Seymour were dominant. Those are the only two who have a shot at being HOF. They played good team defense and have probably one of the greatest coaches ever.

A lot of the players on that defense were names because of the success of the team. How many of those players left NE to do nothing elsewhere: McGinest, Vrabel, Ty Warren. Rodney Harrison was a player everyone thought was done and washed up; Patriots were the only team to offer him a contract he took it and proved everyone wrong. Seymour is the only one to go on and have continued success but the team valued Wilfork over Seymour. Asante Samuel is probably the most overrated player the league has ever seen.

That's what makes Belichick such a good coach; one piece leaves and another comes in takes over a role and the team doesn't skip a beat.

The difference was 2009 when the core of the defense left; we had holes at LB, CB, S, and DL. Our defense went to crap due to poor drafting see: Meriweather, Butler, Brace, Love, Guyton, etc.

[ERoyal248]

Lets look at that defense in 2011:

DE: Mark Anderson (very pedestrian)
DT: Kyle Love (Guy can't start for the Jaguars! Hasn't started since leaving NE)
DT: Vince Wilfork (All-pro)
DE: Shaun Ellis (Washed up recored 1 sack in 7 starts. Retired after that season)
LB: Mayo (Pro Bowl)
LB: Spikes (2 down player who was beat in coverage a lot. Fan favorite but very overrated)
LB: Ninkovich (Second yr as a starter. Came over as a long snapper. Better fit at 43 DE)
CB: Kyle Arrington (Worst starting CB in the league, can't play on outside needs to cover slot. He was beat out by a rookie and will probably be last CB on depth chart this year)
CB: Antwaun Molden/Sterling Moore (Molden hasn't made a team since being on the pats and Moore was a practice squad player after the pats on the cowboys got cut and was brought back as the 4th corner on the worst pass defense team in the league. Couldn't even start in the worst secondary!)
S: McCourty (8th game playing safety. turned into a beast tho)
S: Ihedigbo (1st year starting safety played special teams on the Jets. Below Average to Poor)


Easily worst defense that has made the SB. Julian Edelman was the 3rd corner for crying out load. Beyond Wilfork, Mayo, and McCourty there was no one on that defense. Andre Carter was good for us but he got tore his quad late in the regular season.

Spikes, Nink, Arrington, Ellis, Ihedigbo, and Anderson were all pretty solid players.

Sounds like more excuses to me :thumb:

Den's defense was far worse given the injuries, let's compare.

DE- Ayers (rotational player)
DT- Knighton
DT- Sly
DE- Phillips (rotational player)
LB- Trev
LB- Irving
LB- Lenon (backup)
SS- Duke (backup)
FS- Adams (good role player)
CB- DRC
CB- Champ

There will maybe be 3 players from that defense start opening week.

Throw in guys like Carter (emergency CB playing the #3 role), and Omar Bolden/Huff in nickel/dime who are terrible.

[ERoyal248]

Brady has choked recently, but he has his track record of performance in the postseason to fall back on. Manning has choked recently and he doesn't have the same track record.

A track record of 9-10 years ago?

EOLOL.

[ERoyal248]

My response to this what you don't understand is that those players were all good and solid. None of them outside of Wilfork and Seymour were dominant. Those are the only two who have a shot at being HOF. They played good team defense and have probably one of the greatest coaches ever.

A lot of the players on that defense were names because of the success of the team. How many of those players left NE to do nothing elsewhere: McGinest, Vrabel, Ty Warren. Rodney Harrison was a player everyone thought was done and washed up; Patriots were the only team to offer him a contract he took it and proved everyone wrong. Seymour is the only one to go on and have continued success but the team valued Wilfork over Seymour. Asante Samuel is probably the most overrated player the league has ever seen.

That's what makes Belichick such a good coach; one piece leaves and another comes in takes over a role and the team doesn't skip a beat.

The difference was 2009 when the core of the defense left; we had holes at LB, CB, S, and DL. Our defense went to crap due to poor drafting see: Meriweather, Butler, Brace, Love, Guyton, etc.

Thats not the point, you act like they were crap and Brady carried them when it was the other way around.

[bgpatsfan]

Thats not the point, you act like they were crap and Brady carried them when it was the other way around.

Which is why in 2001 and 2004 they had a top 10 offense in the league

2000 Drew Bledsoe starting; team was 5-11 and 25th total offense

2001 Tom Brady starting; team was 11-5 and 6th total offense

[ERoyal248]

Which is why in 2001 and 2004 they had a top 10 offense in the league

This has already been talked about.

He did not carry them.

[bgpatsfan]

This has already been talked about.

He did not carry them.

Two game winning drives and 1 4th quarter comeback in the 2001 postseason... just saying. He didn't carry them, but he was by no means carried by the defense. The defense needed him to come up big and he did. Hence the SB MVP.

And this:

2000 Drew Bledsoe starting; team was 5-11 and 25th total offense

2001 Tom Brady starting; team was 11-5 and 6th total offense