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The Validity of PFF (or lack thereof)

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  • ERoyal248
    replied
    Originally posted by bgpatsfan View Post
    Not saying defense was great but they played MUCH better than the O. Look at the 1st half of the game, Broncos D played great considering the offense couldn't get a first down and was turning the ball over left and right. The D had zero rest and was put in a bad field position by the offense. Let's be real, Broncos were lucky the score was only 22-0 at half.
    The O sucked, of course it was, you arent really making sense.

    Wilson converted 3rd down after 3rd down.

    Not saying the defense was awful but they got zero turnovers, zero sacks, zero QB hits, nothing, you need a turnover or two in a big game like that.

    Leave a comment:


  • bgpatsfan
    replied
    Originally posted by ERoyal248 View Post
    Here's more #'s from the great Broncos defense in the SB like bg keeps claiming.

    0 sacks, 0 QB hits, 7-12 on 3rd downs.

    Wilson was barely touched, he could take a dump and still find someone open, there was no one near him all game.

    I honestly dont know if anyone on Den touched him, legit serious, he had that much time to throw, it was insane.
    Not saying defense was great but they played MUCH better than the O. Look at the 1st half of the game, Broncos D played great considering the offense couldn't get a first down and was turning the ball over left and right. The D had zero rest and was put in a bad field position by the offense. Let's be real, Broncos were lucky the score was only 22-0 at half.

    Leave a comment:


  • ERoyal248
    replied
    Here's more #'s from the great Broncos defense in the SB like bg keeps claiming.

    0 sacks, 0 QB hits, 7-12 on 3rd downs.

    Wilson was barely touched, he could take a dump and still find someone open, there was no one near him all game.

    I honestly dont know if anyone on Den touched him, legit serious, he had that much time to throw, it was insane.

    Leave a comment:


  • ERoyal248
    replied
    Originally posted by bgpatsfan View Post
    Just looked it up. Forced one punt, but they also forced Seattle to turn it over on downs twice. A couple things stand out to me, Seattle did not have a scoring drive longer than 60 yards because Broncos offense always ensured Seattle started with great field position. The only time Denver forced a punt is when Denver's defense started with good field positon (inside Seattle's 20). The majority of the time, Seattle was getting the ball around their own 40.

    Just looked it up and the log of Denver's drives I think really tells the story:
    1. Safety (-14 yards)
    2. Punt (8 yds)
    3. Interception (3 yds)
    4. Interception returned for TD (49 yds)
    5. Downs (48 yds)
    6. Punt (38 yds)
    7. Fumble ( 34 yds)
    8. Touchdown (80 yds)
    9. Downs (40 yds)
    10. Fumble (-2 yds)
    11. Game over (3 yds)
    One of those was when they were running clock, and got stopped for a run on 4th down when the game was clearly over.

    Again, defense wasnt horrendous but not great either.

    If only they could give up 17 and 21 points and still lose!

    Believe they had two TD's where 2-4 missed tackles lead to a TD among other things, defense was not as good as you made it out to be but thats to be no surprise either.

    Leave a comment:


  • bgpatsfan
    replied
    I 100% agree with Roland.. they give great factual imformation such as a corner's snap number in coverage, how many times they are targeted, how many receptions/tds/yards given up. The problem is when they try to use their opinion to formulate a grade on each player.

    Talib barely being in the top 60 corners in the league is definitely one grade that is worth checking out for starters. Earl Thomas barely being a top 10 safety. The list can go on and on

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by RolandDeschain View Post
    I'm a PFF subscriber for one reason - their raw stats accumulation. You can check all kinds of factual-based stats there that provide interesting information and perspective. Their "grades" are garbage. Some are highly accurate, some are ridiculously pathetic and wildly off, etc.; you simply cannot trust their grades.

    Easily worth the $27/year for the factual-based information they provide in my opinion, however. They have all kinds of cool stuff to look at that isn't "opinion-based" like their grades.
    Let me guess the grades you dont agree with,
    Manning grades higher than Wilson?
    Von Miller grades higher than any of your linebackers?
    Gives us some examples of these grades you dont agree with.

    Leave a comment:


  • RolandDeschain
    replied
    I'm a PFF subscriber for one reason - their raw stats accumulation. You can check all kinds of factual-based stats there that provide interesting information and perspective. Their "grades" are garbage. Some are highly accurate, some are ridiculously pathetic and wildly off, etc.; you simply cannot trust their grades.

    Easily worth the $27/year for the factual-based information they provide in my opinion, however. They have all kinds of cool stuff to look at that isn't "opinion-based" like their grades.

    Leave a comment:


  • bgpatsfan
    replied
    Originally posted by ERoyal248 View Post
    Correct me if i'm wrong but did Denver's D even force one punt that game?

    I'm not saying they were all-time bad but they were not good either, minus the run-D which is stout.
    Just looked it up. Forced one punt, but they also forced Seattle to turn it over on downs twice. A couple things stand out to me, Seattle did not have a scoring drive longer than 60 yards because Broncos offense always ensured Seattle started with great field position. The only time Denver forced a punt is when Denver's defense started with good field positon (inside Seattle's 20). The majority of the time, Seattle was getting the ball around their own 40.

    Just looked it up and the log of Denver's drives I think really tells the story:
    1. Safety (-14 yards)
    2. Punt (8 yds)
    3. Interception (3 yds)
    4. Interception returned for TD (49 yds)
    5. Downs (48 yds)
    6. Punt (38 yds)
    7. Fumble ( 34 yds)
    8. Touchdown (80 yds)
    9. Downs (40 yds)
    10. Fumble (-2 yds)
    11. Game over (3 yds)
    Last edited by bgpatsfan; 05-01-2014, 11:25 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ERoyal248
    replied
    Originally posted by bgpatsfan View Post
    You do realize that even if you look at points against, TB improved from 2012 to 2013.

    I mean if you really want to dig into points against aren't always a relevant stat; look at the SB. If you initially looked at the score you would think Denver's defense played terrible. That is not the case. Denver's defense played great considering the offense did not sustain a drive or get a first down until halfway through the second quarter and turned the ball over repeatedly. Denver's defense was not the problem. The same can be said for Tampa's defense, poor stats are a product of the team having the worst offense in the league.
    Correct me if i'm wrong but did Denver's D even force one punt that game?

    I'm not saying they were all-time bad but they were not good either, minus the run-D which is stout.

    Leave a comment:


  • samparnell
    replied
    When one pays attention to a rating system like PFF, one is relying on someone else's analysis. It would be good for everyone to analyze games for themselves and create their own system. :2cents:

    Leave a comment:


  • #87Birdman
    replied
    Originally posted by bgpatsfan View Post
    I agree, but I think Revis is an exception. I don't think I have ever seen a corner play as well as Revis did from 2009-2012. Didn't watch many of Revis' games in 2013, but he was still excellent by all accounts and couldn't live up to his potential because of the way TB's coaches used him. I think he is in a much better system this year; I mean who knew Talib was that good before he came from TB? I doubt many people had him as a top 5 corner before he got to NE.

    Many top corners don't really play in run support. Especially when its Tebow running at you in the open field.

    As far as Moss goes, Moss was motivated because Revis had talked trash about him that week. Moss was the most physically gifted receiver the NFL has ever seen and IMO a motivated Randy was the best receiver the game has ever seen. Unfortunately for everyone (Randy, his teams, and the fans), "Randy only plays when Randy wants to play"
    What miss Champ's play from 06? Plus he doesn't shy away from the run game like Revis. Revis is good but he isn't the best there has ever been like you are trying to make it out to be.

    Leave a comment:


  • bgpatsfan
    replied
    Originally posted by Garfield View Post
    You do realize that games are not won or lost by yards gained or given up, right?

    It is points scored.
    You do realize that even if you look at points against, TB improved from 2012 to 2013.

    I mean if you really want to dig into points against aren't always a relevant stat; look at the SB. If you initially looked at the score you would think Denver's defense played terrible. That is not the case. Denver's defense played great considering the offense did not sustain a drive or get a first down until halfway through the second quarter and turned the ball over repeatedly. Denver's defense was not the problem. The same can be said for Tampa's defense, poor stats are a product of the team having the worst offense in the league.

    Leave a comment:


  • Garfield
    replied
    Originally posted by bgpatsfan View Post
    Lol you are a genius. Did you not realize that Revis made Tampa Bay, one of the worst defenses in the league in 2012, a respectable unit in 2013. I mean they went from 29th to 17th in terms of total D. And went from DEAD LAST in pass D to middle of the pack. That's even with putting Revis in a system that doesn't play to his strengths and maximize his ability.

    Lol do you even research things before you make statements that are dead wrong?
    You do realize that games are not won or lost by yards gained or given up, right?

    It is points scored.

    Leave a comment:


  • bgpatsfan
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    Your right on Gonzalez I remember belichek had Tony G double teamed. Jaimie Collins did a good job on tight ends towards the end of the year. As far as Revis and Talib go they are different corners I agree Revis is the more athletic and Talib is very physical like them boys in Seattle. Revis should have a good year with Belichek, but I think people get to caught up in names. When Revis was on the Jets all I ever heard was how great he was but the only two plays I remember him by are Randy Moss burning him and then he conveniently coming up with a pulled hammy, and him talking crap about Tebow and then avoiding Tebow when he ran at Revis.
    I agree, but I think Revis is an exception. I don't think I have ever seen a corner play as well as Revis did from 2009-2012. Didn't watch many of Revis' games in 2013, but he was still excellent by all accounts and couldn't live up to his potential because of the way TB's coaches used him. I think he is in a much better system this year; I mean who knew Talib was that good before he came from TB? I doubt many people had him as a top 5 corner before he got to NE.

    Many top corners don't really play in run support. Especially when its Tebow running at you in the open field.

    As far as Moss goes, Moss was motivated because Revis had talked trash about him that week. Moss was the most physically gifted receiver the NFL has ever seen and IMO a motivated Randy was the best receiver the game has ever seen. Unfortunately for everyone (Randy, his teams, and the fans), "Randy only plays when Randy wants to play"

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by bgpatsfan View Post
    Yes, Talib played great the first 6 games of last season. He wasn't used to cover Tony G in the Atlanta game. He moved between Roddy and Julio.

    But what happened after those 6 games? His play fell off of a cliff.

    We have other guys we can put on tight ends. We don't need Revis to cover a TE.

    Yeah Talib is slightly bigger; same weight and maybe an inch taller. But Talib does not have Revis' athleticism or his ability.
    Your right on Gonzalez I remember belichek had Tony G double teamed. Jaimie Collins did a good job on tight ends towards the end of the year. As far as Revis and Talib go they are different corners I agree Revis is the more athletic and Talib is very physical like them boys in Seattle. Revis should have a good year with Belichek, but I think people get to caught up in names. When Revis was on the Jets all I ever heard was how great he was but the only two plays I remember him by are Randy Moss burning him and then he conveniently coming up with a pulled hammy, and him talking crap about Tebow and then avoiding Tebow when he ran at Revis.

    Leave a comment:

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