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  • #31
    Originally posted by baphamet View Post
    you will have to ask him that. anything else is speculation. he didn't pick the team with the best roster or the team that offered the most money. i'm sure elway had something to do with it but was that the only reason? i don't think so.

    the more important question is, will elway be able to continue to just sign all these big name FA's to huge contracts? or will he have to build a team through the draft eventually?
    Because he new Elway would do what was needed to win. Make up all the lame excuses you want but Elway is one of two GM's who's decisions resulted in there teams making it to the Superbowl last year. That puts Elway #2 out of 32 teams.
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    • #32
      Originally posted by baphamet View Post
      you will have to ask him that. anything else is speculation. he didn't pick the team with the best roster or the team that offered the most money. i'm sure elway had something to do with it but was that the only reason? i don't think so.

      the more important question is, will elway be able to continue to just sign all these big name FA's to huge contracts? or will he have to build a team through the draft eventually?
      You worry about life after Peyton im only interested in this season, starting with week 1 vs Indy.
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      • #33
        Originally posted by baphamet View Post
        BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

        gee, i wonder if renting one of the greatest QB's of all time has anything to do with your recent success? all elway has done is write big checks. he hasn't made too many impressive moves as a GM or scout.

        easy to look good when you can throw money around like elway has been doing.

        he gets all this credit solely for the big money FA signings, heck man i can do that! lets see how good of a GM he is when he isn't in cap heaven and has to actually do his job and make some key moves to stay under cap yet stay competitive without peyton manning making him look good.

        in a couple years at most, your team is going to be struggling big time unless you get lucky and osweiler fills even half the void that manning will no doubt leave behind when he retires.

        at the same time, your success will drive the price up on all of your top players and they will all demand big money.

        i think that the broncos may very likely see their darkest days in the next few years and if you dont get a ring out of it (the only way spending all this money will be worth it) elway could find himself without a job.
        Yeah, laugh till ya choke, homer boy.

        We won the first of our soon to be four straight AFCW Division titles with Tim Tebow.

        We have the best owner, front office executive, personnel dept and coaches in the division.

        Under the surface, our team is young and talented across the board at every position. We OWN this division for the forseable future, and just understand, your boys are playing for a wild card at best...oh, and BTW, Peelip is also on the back nine of his career too...tick, tock...

        Elway is THE pimp of this Division, and all ya'll are his street hoes...
        Last edited by Idiot_Kicker; 06-24-2014, 08:18 PM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by baphamet View Post
          i don't care how good of a player he once was or how much he can relate to the FA's he signs, that's not going to help him much when he actually has to build a team through the draft or when he has to add talent when he doesn't have all this money to throw around.

          i understand that you feel good about having him as your GM at this point but thinking it's going to stay like this is comical.
          But see that's just it. Elway got Manning here. I'm not the only person that thinks Manning might have gone elsewhere if Elway was not part of the equation. In other words, if this was the Mike Shanahan era or whatever era, Manning maybe doesn't come to Denver.

          Key ingredient? John Elway. That doesn't go away when Manning retires. As much as the rest of the AFCW wishes- it doesn't and wont. Having Manning helps bring in "missing link" - "plug and play" type free agents, no doubt. But so does John Elway himself. Broncos fans have a LOT to look forward to in the next 10 years or more.

          Elway being a former player can do nothing but help. If your suggesting it's some kind of crutch or doesn't amount to anything is shortsighted. The more success we have leading up to Manning's departure will also add to Elway's credibility and that will persist and help him when the next QB takes the snaps. And Elway wasn't just a former player, he was a former HOF player and arguably one of the greatest QB's to ever play

          I understand looking at it through your eyes, it's not something you want to think about. So if and when you do, by instinct you'll search for the dark side of it. Scary isn't it?
          The beatings will continue until morale improves....

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          • #35
            Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
            The thing about Kansas City is this. Even when you do draft good players, it doesn't improve your team. You could have 10 ProBowl players in a season and not get past the wildcard round. Why is that? Its as if KC can't see the forest through the trees. Good teams are the incarnation of the old saying 'the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts'. Somehow Kansas City Chief's team is more like 'the whole is less than the sum of it's parts' which shouldn't be possible. But look at the last few years.

            Actually lets go back further than a few years since you brought up 'in a while'......

            The last 6 post season appearances were <cough> one&dones ... Kansas City is a little

            lacking
            1994 AFC Wild Card Loss
            1995 AFC Divisional Loss
            1997 AFC Divisional Loss
            2003 AFC Divisional Loss
            2006 AFC Wild Card Loss
            2010 AFC Wild Card Loss

            We were AFC Champions last season which KC competed for. Well, KC arguably competed for. Are you suggesting I base any predictions on your faith and hope that your organization will turn things around? Because if I base it on history - recent history - like the last 10-20 years, I'd say things do look sketchy for KC. At least if you have a decent season, it could be called an improvement though. So you have that going for you.

            I honestly think you're a better team that your record suggests - underachieving must be a bummer. You guys won a Superbowl back in like 1970 right? I'll give you a for that -even though it's been 'quite a while for you guys' but still more than San Diego can say ...

            As long as John Elway is in command in Denver, the rest of the AFCW is going to have a hard time getting past them. It's going to take an exceptional team to get past Denver. Lucky for the AFCW, Denver's success is leading to promotions for up and coming staff talent which our rivals are gobbling up. KC's the only team that hasn't so far - and for that, I thank you guys. At least if and when you do overcome Denver's domination you can say you did it all on your own. Let's cross that bridge when we get to it though

            Speaking of "wishful thinking"~ That's really all you have in KC. At least Denver has a few AFCW Division Championship banners to look at in the past few years to go along with an AFC Championship. It's a lot easier to think about winning with all the recent successes rather than wish for them with recent mediocrity. It stinks a lot less in Denver than it does in Kansas City ....if 'wishful thinking stinks'

            You must think I'm a Chiefs fan, I'm not. They may miss the playoffs, I don't think you should predict KC should do well based on what I said, because I never said they would.

            My main point was that the REASON the OP gave for why they are doomed is stupid. One bad draft is not going to doom them, nor does it mean that there is some imminent decline of Andy Reid. Coaches don't even decline in that way anyway, so there is really never an 'all downhill from here' for coaches. They may have ups, downs, and ups again at an older age. That, and I thought the whole 'it's hard to identify with champions' was just a ridiculous comment because the Broncos have not been the champs in their current era.

            It will depend on how their players develop, how well they are used, future FA signings, how they work together and etc. I do agree though that at times the Chiefs have been less than the sum of their parts. I believe they had like 6 pro bowlers in their 2-14 season of '12. The Chargers have been able to pull the reverse in recent years.

            We'll see if they can change that in the future. However, don't you think it's a bit irrational to base predictions on how they'll do based on past COMPLETELY DIFFERENT teams? With the 06 playoff loss, they were a 9-7 team who was worse on the road that traveled to the 12-4 undefeated at home Colts who eventually won the SB. Their offense sputtered BIG TIME in that game, but it's not really a good example of them playing below their means. They just got beat by a better team.
            Last edited by fallforward3y+; 06-24-2014, 10:41 PM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
              Because he new Elway would do what was needed to win. Make up all the lame excuses you want but Elway is one of two GM's who's decisions resulted in there teams making it to the Superbowl last year. That puts Elway #2 out of 32 teams.
              because SF didn't have what was needed to win a SB? they had by far the better team at the time, on offense and on defense, they still do.

              haha yes you can make up in your head what he knew elway would do lmao you silly ass homer!

              what excuses am i making miller? because i am not willing to speculate (like you are) why he chose the team that offered him less money and didn't have the best players?

              as far as your last comment. yep, manning is making elway look good just like i said before, this is why elway is so over-rated as a GM. elway is considered a great GM because he has pulled out the pocket book and has singed a lot of big money FA's.

              that's not going to last and if you expect it to, you are even more of a delusional homer than i thought.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
                But see that's just it. Elway got Manning here. I'm not the only person that thinks Manning might have gone elsewhere if Elway was not part of the equation. In other words, if this was the Mike Shanahan era or whatever era, Manning maybe doesn't come to Denver.
                that's possible sure but nobody knows for sure. you can think to yourself that's why manning came here but at the end of the day, when manning is gone, what good is that going to do elway?

                is that going to help him land another HOF bound QB at the end of their career? is that going to help him draft and actually build a team? at some point, elway isn't going to be able to cut those huge checks anymore, what then?

                Key ingredient? John Elway. That doesn't go away when Manning retires. As much as the rest of the AFCW wishes- it doesn't and wont. Having Manning helps bring in "missing link" - "plug and play" type free agents, no doubt. But so does John Elway himself. Broncos fans have a LOT to look forward to in the next 10 years or more.
                you act like FA's such as manning are a dime a dozen lmao!!!

                yes it is doing to go away after manning retires, you are not going to have an opportunity to sign another HOF QB like that, teams just don't give up QB's like that usually and QB's manning's age almost never play at a high level anymore.

                its not like elway is the first GM to cut big checks to big name FA's, it's not like denver is the only place big name FA's want to play. ealway isn't the god of the NFL just because he is the god of denver.

                please do come back here in a few years and tell me how things are working out for ya after elway is either gone or getting lots of heat for putting all his eggs in the manning basket.

                you do realize that's whats going on, right? it's not that elway is just a genius and knows how to build a team by cutting huge checks. he's doing that because he knows he needs to win now with manning, he doesn't have time to build a team.

                but make no mistake, at some point he will have to build a team in denver if he wants to keep his job, even if you don't think so.

                Elway being a former player can do nothing but help. If your suggesting it's some kind of crutch or doesn't amount to anything is shortsighted. The more success we have leading up to Manning's departure will also add to Elway's credibility and that will persist and help him when the next QB takes the snaps. And Elway wasn't just a former player, he was a former HOF player and arguably one of the greatest QB's to ever play
                i never said it was a crutch but i just don't know how good he will be at actually building teams. i don't know all the people he has in the FO but he damn sure better have great scouts that he trusts because i don't think he has ever been one.

                that's where most GM's will have an advantage over elway. most of them have been groomed over years in an NFL FO, most being a scout at some point.

                just because he played in the NFL at a high level does not make him a great talent evaluator. writing big checks to already established NFL players doesn't prove otherwise.

                I understand looking at it through your eyes, it's not something you want to think about. So if and when you do, by instinct you'll search for the dark side of it. Scary isn't it?
                i will put it to you this way. there isn't one GM in the NFL i would think is good enough to keep their team dominant over a decades time like you seem to think elway can do, not without an elite QB that entire time.

                well i shouldn't say not good enough, more like not possible.

                so sorry but no, it has nothing to do with my feelings about elway or the broncos, its called reality.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by baphamet View Post
                  because SF didn't have what was needed to win a SB? they had by far the better team at the time, on offense and on defense, they still do.

                  haha yes you can make up in your head what he knew elway would do lmao you silly ass homer!

                  what excuses am i making miller? because i am not willing to speculate (like you are) why he chose the team that offered him less money and didn't have the best players?

                  as far as your last comment. yep, manning is making elway look good just like i said before, this is why elway is so over-rated as a GM. elway is considered a great GM because he has pulled out the pocket book and has singed a lot of big money FA's.

                  that's not going to last and if you expect it to, you are even more of a delusional homer than i thought.
                  Baphs he could have gone to SF but chose Denver because of Elway's sales pitch. Elway also took a chance on a QB who had 4 neck surgeries. You give no credit to Elway?
                  Elway also drafted Julius Thomas in the 4th rd in 2011 and signed Welker 2 guys who contributed to the greatest offensive output of all time.
                  Elway has put together an elite defense on paper through the draft and free agency this year. I'm sure if the defense is dominant you'll give Elway no credit for putting the group together, just more luck.
                  You call me a homer and that may be true but you are just a jealous hater. In your eyes Denver fans should be ashamed of our team and have no confidence in our QB and our GM is now overrated because so many GMs get teams that haven't been in 15yrs to the Superbowl.
                  All a GM does is get the ingriedients and the coach is the cook. Elway gets the best available product at the best price, that's what makes him one of the best GM's in the league.
                  Oh and one last thing, what happens when Manning leaves? Brock Osweiler will take over. A young QB who can make any throw, and can run. With talent like Ball, Latimer, Sanders, and Dt, you better hope and pray he's a bust because Elway will have him plus $20 million to play, DENVER will have more talent than now and the AFCWEST crown will stay in the MILE HIGH CITY.
                  Last edited by 58Miller; 06-26-2014, 11:31 AM.
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                  • #39
                    Emily Diana has posted this article which is how I caught wind of it.

                    http://www.football.com/en-us/2014-b...nfl-team-ever/

                    Baph, I recommend you just skip this article

                    Once again this team has to win the Super Bowl to be considered the best, but what Elway has done in terms of upgrading the roster has never been done before -- not even on a videogame. I think we could say the Broncos will be the 2015 Super Bowl Champions, or as Elway always says, “World Champions.”
                    The beatings will continue until morale improves....

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
                      Emily Diana has posted this article which is how I caught wind of it.

                      http://www.football.com/en-us/2014-b...nfl-team-ever/

                      Baph, I recommend you just skip this article
                      that article confirms what i have been saying, he is the most over-rated GM in the NFL and its not even close!

                      by the way, how did being "the best NFL team ever" work out for them last year?

                      hes saying if Denver wins the SB they will be considered the best team ever? key word "if"

                      lets say, for the sake of argument, the broncos did win the SB this year. it would really depend on the manner in which they won that SB in order for it to be even arguable that they are the best team ever.

                      i mean, are we talking best single season team ever? i surely hope so because if not, the broncos don't even crack the top 5 best team ever at that point in my mind.

                      heck, they wouldn't even be the best broncos team ever at that point IMHO. but, if we are talking about best single season team ever? they better do what the pats could not and run the table because otherwise they simply won't have much of an argument.

                      but we both know he is talking about best team on paper, which is irrelevant. having good players is not what makes a team great, especially when you had great players last year and got curb stomped in the SB.

                      its easy to have a lot of good players when you can cut all those gigantic checks. elway walked into a great situation in Denver (in terms of cap space) and now he has been vastly over-rated because of it.

                      oh by the way, i didn't know who that was that wrote that article so i googled it.

                      Kissner is a sports broadcaster in Denver, Colo., covering the Denver Broncos
                      so you posted a homer article to try and disprove my opinion? LMAO!! i really didn't even have to google that to know what a ridiculous homer that guy was.

                      this is my favorite quote from the article. "but what Elway has done in terms of upgrading the roster has never been done before -- not even on a videogame. "

                      you take that guy seriously? really? now i see why you recommended that i skip it ROFL! :nono:
                      Last edited by baphamet; 06-30-2014, 03:19 PM.

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                      • #41
                        ohh boy baprods jealousy of the broncos is so deep it must be unbearable

                        to sit here and say , nay demand that Elway is overrated as a GM is absurd

                        Elway landing peyton just chaps your butt, its not only landing a free agent HOF qb
                        Elway inherited a team in 2011 devoid of talent, other then a 2nd yr wrs Thomas and decker and clady
                        in the first draft under Elway the broncos selected

                        von miller
                        rahime moore
                        Orlando franklin
                        nate Irvin
                        Julius Thomas
                        virgil green
                        and signd UDFA cris harris



                        in his second draft Elway selected
                        derik wolfe
                        malik Jackson
                        d trevathan

                        he also besides manning brought in FA
                        J tame
                        J dreessen
                        Holiday
                        M adams

                        and UDFE duke ihenacho

                        in 2013

                        Elway drafted
                        sylvester williams
                        m ball
                        k webster
                        Q smith

                        and brought in Pot roast
                        wes welker
                        luis Vasquez

                        2014
                        Elway drafted
                        b roby
                        c latimer
                        L barrow

                        and brought free agents
                        emanual sanders
                        aquib talib
                        tj ward
                        demarcus ware


                        elway has completely trasformed this team in his short time here
                        sigpic
                        when do native Americans become human and not mascots

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                          ohh boy baprods jealousy of the broncos is so deep it must be unbearable

                          to sit here and say , nay demand that Elway is overrated as a GM is absurd

                          Elway landing peyton just chaps your butt, its not only landing a free agent HOF qb
                          Elway inherited a team in 2011 devoid of talent, other then a 2nd yr wrs Thomas and decker and clady
                          in the first draft under Elway the broncos selected

                          von miller
                          rahime moore
                          Orlando franklin
                          nate Irvin
                          Julius Thomas
                          virgil green
                          and signd UDFA cris harris



                          in his second draft Elway selected
                          derik wolfe
                          malik Jackson
                          d trevathan

                          he also besides manning brought in FA
                          J tame
                          J dreessen
                          Holiday
                          M adams

                          and UDFE duke ihenacho

                          in 2013

                          Elway drafted
                          sylvester williams
                          m ball
                          k webster
                          Q smith

                          and brought in Pot roast
                          wes welker
                          luis Vasquez

                          2014
                          Elway drafted
                          b roby
                          c latimer
                          L barrow

                          and brought free agents
                          emanual sanders
                          aquib talib
                          tj ward
                          demarcus ware


                          elway has completely trasformed this team in his short time here
                          other than the huge checks he signed, i only see one or maybe two great moves there, one of them being Vasquez which was a good pick up for you. you want to list all those guys as if they are all great players? your running backs are garbage, you have one guy that may or may not turn out to be a good player.

                          at manning's age, the running game should be an emphasis. but it isn't and when manning decides he wants to hang em up, you will be forced to put all your eggs in the Osweiler basket since all you really have is a high powered passing attack and a mediocre running game.

                          not smart.

                          oh and how come you don't mention the elvis dumervil debacle? was that not also under elway's watch? why bother even mentioning the 2014 draft? those picks may or may not turn out to be good picks.

                          i'm not saying elway i a terrible GM but i do think that most of the credit he gets is for those huge FA signings and for the sucsess the broncos have, which IMO is mainly due to having one of the greatest QB's of all time fall in his lap.

                          elway is writing all these huge checks so they can possibly win a ring now while they still have manning. he's not going to be able to continue to just get all these big name FA's and cut them fat checks. meanwhile, manning will be gone soon as well.

                          those are both facts and those are the two main things that are the driving force behind elway being so vastly over-rated as a GM. he is going to come back to earth and if there is no ring to show for it, it may cost him his job or at the very least shake confidence in his front office leadership ability.

                          elway is the GM version of Russel Wilson, both will be falling back to earth in due time.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by baphamet View Post
                            other than the huge checks he signed, i only see one or maybe two great moves there, one of them being Vasquez which was a good pick up for you. you want to list all those guys as if they are all great players? your running backs are garbage, you have one guy that may or may not turn out to be a good player.

                            at manning's age, the running game should be an emphasis. but it isn't and when manning decides he wants to hang em up, you will be forced to put all your eggs in the Osweiler basket since all you really have is a high powered passing attack and a mediocre running game.

                            not smart.

                            oh and how come you don't mention the elvis dumervil debacle? was that not also under elway's watch? why bother even mentioning the 2014 draft? those picks may or may not turn out to be good picks.

                            i'm not saying elway i a terrible GM but i do think that most of the credit he gets is for those huge FA signings and for the sucsess the broncos have, which IMO is mainly due to having one of the greatest QB's of all time fall in his lap.

                            elway is writing all these huge checks so they can possibly win a ring now while they still have manning. he's not going to be able to continue to just get all these big name FA's and cut them fat checks. meanwhile, manning will be gone soon as well.

                            those are both facts and those are the two main things that are the driving force behind elway being so vastly over-rated as a GM. he is going to come back to earth and if there is no ring to show for it, it may cost him his job or at the very least shake confidence in his front office leadership ability.

                            elway is the GM version of Russel Wilson, both will be falling back to earth in due time.
                            sigpic
                            when do native Americans become human and not mascots

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                              i'm sorry, did my post make too much sense?

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                              • #45
                                why is the H yellow in your avatar in the chargers name
                                The beatings will continue until morale improves....

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