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  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by baphamet View Post
    montee ball is literally the only back you currently have that might be worth anything IMHO

    your backs as a whole are garbage, your best back is ball who is still unproven and could not take the starting position from a bust running back? that's what makes me doubt him a little bit.

    if he was so good he should have been starting his rookie year or at least got more looks than he did. you can compare their rookie seasons and act like because they are comparable then that must mean your backs will turn out like woodhead and mathews but that's not very logical.

    my point is that we have not two but three proven backs in our back field, you don't even have one that's proven he can play yet. montee ball still has to prove he can be the guy and yes he will need to be the guy because that's pretty much all you got

    that said, i think he (and all your backs) are in a great position to succeed (unlike Brock Osweiler) due to defenses homing in on peyton and the passing attack, so they should have plenty of room to run.

    elway is making the mistake of not putting an emphasis on the running game because he has manning and wants to win now, a decision that will likely come back to haunt him if he doesn't do something about it before manning retires or implodes.
    Elway used a 2nd rd pick on Montae Ball a workhorse running back who carried the load in college.
    Elway also invested a 2nd rd pick on LG Franklin, a 3rd rd pick on RT Schoefield and a 2nd round pick on WR Latimer, all players who are all best at run blocking. He also invested in All-Pro right guard Louis Vasquez to say Elway is ignoring the run game is untrue, its is a work in progress and this season should be more balanced.

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  • baphamet
    replied
    Originally posted by arapaho View Post
    because he is baprod the boy genius !! and every opinion of his is fact and if he's gonna use a laugh or smirk smilie to prove it
    and does that make you arapatroll the boy whiner? it's hilarious how you always whine that i play my opinion off as fact yet i put "IMO" in almost every post i make?

    do i need to put a disclaimer in my sig just for you so you know that the stuff i say is just my opinion unless stated otherwise? seriously dude, grow a freakin pair!

    your smack tactics will never change, when you don't have anything to fire back with....just whine! works every time!!!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • baphamet
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    Really Baphs first our second round QB probably wont succeed and now Monte Ball is not a capable back? Neither player has even started an Nfl game!
    Ball and Anderson were rookies below is a comparison of rookie season stats. Matthews started 9 of the those games, Ball zero.
    ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LST
    M.Ball 120 559 4.7 45 4 35 2 2
    Anderson 7 38 5.4 11 0 0 0 0
    Matthews 158 678 4.3 31T 7 22 5 3
    D. Brown 78 281 3.6 45 3 11 1 0
    Woodhead 15 64 4.3 16 0 0 0 0
    These numbers aren't far off Baphs I don't see why your running backs are so much better.
    montee ball is literally the only back you currently have that might be worth anything IMHO

    your backs as a whole are garbage, your best back is ball who is still unproven and could not take the starting position from a bust running back? that's what makes me doubt him a little bit.

    if he was so good he should have been starting his rookie year or at least got more looks than he did. you can compare their rookie seasons and act like because they are comparable then that must mean your backs will turn out like woodhead and mathews but that's not very logical.

    my point is that we have not two but three proven backs in our back field, you don't even have one that's proven he can play yet. montee ball still has to prove he can be the guy and yes he will need to be the guy because that's pretty much all you got

    that said, i think he (and all your backs) are in a great position to succeed (unlike Brock Osweiler) due to defenses homing in on peyton and the passing attack, so they should have plenty of room to run.

    elway is making the mistake of not putting an emphasis on the running game because he has manning and wants to win now, a decision that will likely come back to haunt him if he doesn't do something about it before manning retires or implodes.

    Leave a comment:


  • baphamet
    replied
    Originally posted by arapaho View Post
    so your saying qbs drafted in the second round rarely make it...that's your proof the odds are against him?
    its not proof of anything, it's just the reality of the situation.


    how about teams with a qb will rarely draft a qb early unless they know the end is near...they draft for backups
    most teams that draft a QB in the second round don't waste a pick like that on a back up. usually the QB's that fall into the second and third rounds are QB's with the potential to possibly start but are raw and need work to refine their game or transition to the NFL from college.

    elway knew oz, he followed oz...and some scouts and experts who discussed or talked about oz thought if he had waited a yr he was a sure 1st round pick and maybe the 1st qb off the board

    as it was he declared and with him sitting there elway figured he had his 1st round qb and future starter at a 2nd rnd price and pulled the trigger...
    he i a developmental QB no matter how you look at it. you can say elway knows him and elway knows all! but the fact of the matter is, he was not and IMO is not a first round caliber QB because he is not NFL ready like a first round QB should be.

    i also don't think one more year of college would have done much either except give him more starting experience. if you look at the scouting report, he seems to have confidence issues and issues with decision making, among other things.

    all stuff that can be fixed yes but it's all stuff that comes with the territory when you draft a second round project QB. you donko homers want to act like the broncos will be in good hands after manning retires because you trust elways judgement?

    you don't know whats going to happen when dude finally gets his chance to start and if history tells us anything, it tells us the odds are not great he can do it.

    that was my point and a point i don't really think can be argued.

    not to mention the fact that elway wont be coaching him, fox and whoever your QB's coach is, will. and whats fox's track record when it comes to developing QB's again?

    im pretty sure im gonna trust a HOF qbs judgement over a pothead bolt fans
    you mean the same "pot head bolt fan" that told you cuter was a career loser? same one that told you tebow is not starting material? the same one that told you rivers would have a resurgence lats year?

    soon you are going to come to realize that maybe i do know what i am talking about when it comes to QB's? and with this, i'm just stating the obvious. you have a developmental type QB that you seem to think is a no miss and i think you are being very delusional with that line of thinking.

    if he works out for you that's great but its an uphill battle for him due to what i just said and combined with the fact that your offense does not have a heavy emphasis on the running game currently.

    if that doesn't change before Brock Osweiler make his first start, its going to be a problem.

    Leave a comment:


  • arapaho
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    Really Baphs first our second round QB probably wont succeed and now Monte Ball is not a capable back? Neither player has even started an Nfl game!
    Ball and Anderson were rookies below is a comparison of rookie season stats. Matthews started 9 of the those games, Ball zero.
    ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LST
    M.Ball 120 559 4.7 45 4 35 2 2
    Anderson 7 38 5.4 11 0 0 0 0
    Matthews 158 678 4.3 31T 7 22 5 3
    D. Brown 78 281 3.6 45 3 11 1 0
    Woodhead 15 64 4.3 16 0 0 0 0
    These numbers aren't far off Baphs I don't see why your running backs are so much better.

    because he is baprod the boy genius !! and every opinion of his is fact and if he's gonna use a laugh or smirk smilie to prove it

    Leave a comment:


  • arapaho
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    Teams have made trade offers for Oz and Denver has turned them down. Speaking of 2nd round picks I remember a 2nd rd pick the Bolts gave up on prematurely and he turned out to not be that bad. I forget his last name... I think its another word for a light wind?

    that's what I mean Elway is confindent in oz for the future, I think im gonna put my faith behind a guy who knows what it takes to play qb, a 16 yr vet, 1st ballot HOF qb

    over baps predictions

    Leave a comment:


  • onanygivensunda
    replied
    Well, we shouldn't have to wait too long to find out what Ball and Denver's o-line really have.

    Denver's first two preseason games are against the 7th and 4th best run defenses from last year (Seattle then Santa Clara). Ball should get some carries early in those games.

    Their third is against #22 (Houston)... Ball should see the lion's share of carries here but be careful what conclusions you draw since Houston's run-D was bottom 1/3 of the league last year.

    And they finish with one of the worst run defenses in the league (Dallas at #27)... but Ball shouldn't see much action in this game.

    Leave a comment:


  • dizzolve
    replied
    Personally I have 100% faith in Monte Ball. He showed constant improvement last season and think he's as talented as any RB drafted that year

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by baphamet View Post
    keep dreaming, your RB's are trash. of course you keep saying ball will get it done, even though you have no idea if he will or not. we have 3 capable proven RB's, how many do you have? 0
    Really Baphs first our second round QB probably wont succeed and now Monte Ball is not a capable back? Neither player has even started an Nfl game!
    Ball and Anderson were rookies below is a comparison of rookie season stats. Matthews started 9 of the those games, Ball zero.
    ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LST
    M.Ball 120 559 4.7 45 4 35 2 2
    Anderson 7 38 5.4 11 0 0 0 0
    Matthews 158 678 4.3 31T 7 22 5 3
    D. Brown 78 281 3.6 45 3 11 1 0
    Woodhead 15 64 4.3 16 0 0 0 0
    These numbers aren't far off Baphs I don't see why your running backs are so much better.

    Leave a comment:


  • dizzolve
    replied
    When Oz was drafted, Mannings health was in question. There was enough trust in it to sign him etc - and it was a good solid gamble. But even if he was signed 100% healthy, the Broncos still need a solid back up. Again when Oz was drafted there was a better chance of him seeing the field than there is/was this year or last year

    I'm not completely on board with the Oz pick but I resort to my trust in John Elway. He knows more than I do - and so far he's made a ton of successful moves. Hopefully this preseason we'll get to see more of Oz than usual

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by arapaho View Post
    so your saying qbs drafted in the second round rarely make it...that's your proof the odds are against him?


    how about teams with a qb will rarely draft a qb early unless they know the end is near...they draft for backups

    elway knew oz, he followed oz...and some scouts and experts who discussed or talked about oz thought if he had waited a yr he was a sure 1st round pick and maybe the 1st qb off the board

    as it was he declared and with him sitting there elway figured he had his 1st round qb and future starter at a 2nd rnd price and pulled the trigger...


    im pretty sure im gonna trust a HOF qbs judgement over a pothead bolt fans
    Teams have made trade offers for Oz and Denver has turned them down. Speaking of 2nd round picks I remember a 2nd rd pick the Bolts gave up on prematurely and he turned out to not be that bad. I forget his last name... I think its another word for a light wind?

    Leave a comment:


  • arapaho
    replied
    Originally posted by baphamet View Post
    no i wont, you can say you told me so if he turns out the way you want. i'm just telling you the odds are not great he will make it based on facts i have already presented to you and that's got you and arapatroll's panties all twisted up, mission accomplished!

    so your saying qbs drafted in the second round rarely make it...that's your proof the odds are against him?


    how about teams with a qb will rarely draft a qb early unless they know the end is near...they draft for backups

    elway knew oz, he followed oz...and some scouts and experts who discussed or talked about oz thought if he had waited a yr he was a sure 1st round pick and maybe the 1st qb off the board

    as it was he declared and with him sitting there elway figured he had his 1st round qb and future starter at a 2nd rnd price and pulled the trigger...


    im pretty sure im gonna trust a HOF qbs judgement over a pothead bolt fans

    Leave a comment:


  • arapaho
    replied
    Originally posted by baphamet View Post
    keep dreaming, your RB's are trash. of course you keep saying ball will get it done, even though you have no idea if he will or not. we have 3 capable proven RB's, how many do you have? 0


    and you keep insisting he wont get it done, even calling them trash

    even when YOU HAVE NO IDEA IF HE WILL OR NOT either...right

    your no expert on anything football related, your an expert on lip service and flip flopping

    you have zero knowledge if Ball will breakout or if any of the other bronco backs will be good...none zip

    just as you have no knowledge if they are subpar...zip

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by baphamet View Post
    that's a fair post. elway does deserve some credit for signing manning and all the other moves he has made but i just think he has been vastly over-rated because of it and the situation he landed in that had his team in great cap shape so he can write all those giant checks.

    elway is doing what he has to do to win now before manning is done, i don't blame him one bit. but i think of all people elway should know that even he needed the help of a good running game to help get his rings at the end of his career, same position manning is in now.

    it just doesn't seem like there is a heavy emphasis on the running game currently. maybe by the time he is called upon to take over for manning, your running game will be more of an emphasis and established by then.

    we will see but i have said all along that even if you guys did struggle after manning retires, it will be worth it if you get a ring out of it.

    if not, elway will not be as revered as a GM, i will tell you that much for sure.
    Elway will have a year or two to rebuild after Manning retires and if Denver struggles then you will be right about Elway riding the Manning signing. Oz will play a huge role if we sink or swim.

    Leave a comment:


  • baphamet
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    Baphs you make a great point. The offense Oz runs in pre-season is Mannings.
    Elway is building a team to compete now but also for him in the future. Last year he drafted Ball who is now the starter and was very impressive once he learned the offense. He drafted Schoelfield who will probably be our future right tackle, he brought in Sanders to replace Mannings guy Welker. Welker runs short underneath routes Sanders can run those and get deep and Osweiler can fling it. Latimer is the future on the outside opposite DT and he is a great run blocker. Osweiler has the ability to get outside the pocket unlike Manning. The play calling will change and this will become his offense. For now Oz has to try his best to be ready for spot duty in Peytons offense.
    If your not sold on him I don't blame you, but I didn't think Foles would be as good as he was so as a Bronco fan im keeping an open mind and I'm trusting John Elway who didn't waist his time with a 1st rd pick in Tebow, or Kyle Orton (both won games , Tebow won a playoff game) making me believe if he sees that Oz isn't going to cut it he will make a move to get another QB. I know you say Elway was lucky with Manning and I do agree with you partly on that. Qb's like Manning and Brady rarely become Un restricted Free Agents that was luck, but Elway should get the credit for convincing Manning to come to Denver.
    that's a fair post. elway does deserve some credit for signing manning and all the other moves he has made but i just think he has been vastly over-rated because of it and the situation he landed in that had his team in great cap shape so he can write all those giant checks.

    elway is doing what he has to do to win now before manning is done, i don't blame him one bit. but i think of all people elway should know that even he needed the help of a good running game to help get his rings at the end of his career, same position manning is in now.

    it just doesn't seem like there is a heavy emphasis on the running game currently. maybe by the time he is called upon to take over for manning, your running game will be more of an emphasis and established by then.

    we will see but i have said all along that even if you guys did struggle after manning retires, it will be worth it if you get a ring out of it.

    if not, elway will not be as revered as a GM, i will tell you that much for sure.

    Leave a comment:

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