Top 10 QBs in the NFL

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  • fallforward3y+
    Bench Warmer
    • Sep 2011
    • 2085

    #46
    Originally posted by onanygivensunda View Post
    Seattle had more long passing plays than most any other team so you're off base in assuming Wilson's is throwing nothing but high % short throws.

    That's Manning's game, not Wilson's.

    Here... read the last sentence in this pff article... https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...op-back-depth/
    Actually, you are right about that. He does throw deep on a higher percentage of his throws than most QBs, and is efficient with them. However, because the amount of attempts is lower, their downfield attack isn't as dominant. You mentioned it being Manning's game instead of Wilson's, but Manning still has 19 more 20 plus completions than Wilson does.

    Less passing attempts make it easier to maintain that kind of efficiency. Example:Christian Ponder has a higher completion percentage than Russell Wilson does. Wilson however, is a far better QB and Ponder would not have maintained that average if he had Wilson's attempts(he pulled a Wilson on Wilson lol).

    This picture Seahawks fans try and paint of the only thing holding Wilson back from eliteness is not getting as many passing attempts is completely misguided. Will he one day be an elite passer? perhaps. However, that day has not come yet. You have to see what he does with more attempts. It doesn't need to be 50, as it's unwise not to maintain balance, but I'd say being efficient with at least 30 attempts per game before I could consider him elite.

    Comment

    • Joshecalpoly
      Starter
      • Dec 2005
      • 11081

      #47
      Everyone agrees the top 4 are:
      Peyton Manning
      Aaron Rodgers
      Drew Brees
      Tom Brady

      but not necessarily in that order, these QB's are considered great because of how they play but also the fact they consistently get to the playoffs so should that be the pre-req?
      Saddly over the last 6 years only 5 QB's have also consistently (3 out 6 times) made the playoffs and based on there performances in the playoffs:
      Philip Rivers
      Joe Flacco
      Big Ben Rapistberger
      Matt Ryan
      Andy Dalton

      Though the red rifle (or rocket lol) is not elite and has been consistently the worst QB in the playoffs every year over a 3 year period we cant deny the fact hes made them, still I think that qualification should stand, because then you get flukes like Sanchez. If we wait a year and Wilson, Luck, or Kap are for real Dalton will no longer be in the top 10

      Now tier 3 of the top 10 could be someone up and coming like Kap or someone that has been to the playoffs 3 times and won a SB like Eli. Though Ild put Andy Dalton even below Eli especially if we go farther back.

      Sadly you cant just count players who have only scratched the surface of there potential (and could just as easily be busts) or QB's who cant make their team relevant.
      Last edited by Joshecalpoly; 06-10-2014, 06:05 AM.
      2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

      Comment

      • Joshecalpoly
        Starter
        • Dec 2005
        • 11081

        #48
        Originally posted by fallforward3y+ View Post
        Actually, you are right about that. He does throw deep on a higher percentage of his throws than most QBs, and is efficient with them. However, because the amount of attempts is lower, their downfield attack isn't as dominant. You mentioned it being Manning's game instead of Wilson's, but Manning still has 19 more 20 plus completions than Wilson does.

        Less passing attempts make it easier to maintain that kind of efficiency. Example:Christian Ponder has a higher completion percentage than Russell Wilson does. Wilson however, is a far better QB and Ponder would not have maintained that average if he had Wilson's attempts(he pulled a Wilson on Wilson lol).

        This picture Seahawks fans try and paint of the only thing holding Wilson back from eliteness is not getting as many passing attempts is completely misguided. Will he one day be an elite passer? perhaps. However, that day has not come yet. You have to see what he does with more attempts. It doesn't need to be 50, as it's unwise not to maintain balance, but I'd say being efficient with at least 30 attempts per game before I could consider him elite.
        Jets fans made similar excuses for Mark Sanchez at the beginning of his career (heck you could argue come playoff time he carried that team more then Wilson did). If any of the top 4 QB's were on that Seattle team they would have probably won. Heck Joe Flacco and Kap could of won with that team around him, yes Wilson has great ball control (probably from his Rockies training lol), but he didnt really carry that team as much as other QB's did. Once his salary is inflated it will be much harder to build a team around him and like Flacco that could be his downfall. Heck many QB's like Sanchez crumble under the pressure

        The NFL is littered with QB's who dont meet expectations and fall out of favor, which is why its to soon to really give Wilson a crown just yet
        Last edited by Joshecalpoly; 06-10-2014, 06:19 AM.
        2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

        Comment

        • samparnell
          Soy Capitan Meshpoint
          • Nov 2007
          • 36427

          #49
          I wanted the Broncos to draft Russell Wilson in 2012. If they had, it would be interesting to see what would have happened. I also wanted the Broncos to draft Arian Foster in 2009. Oh, well.
          "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

          Comment

          • Joshecalpoly
            Starter
            • Dec 2005
            • 11081

            #50
            Originally posted by samparnell View Post
            I wanted the Broncos to draft Russell Wilson in 2012. If they had, it would be interesting to see what would have happened. I also wanted the Broncos to draft Arian Foster in 2009. Oh, well.
            I wanted him and Nick Foles over Caveman Brock. Though its not like its going to matter now because Manning thinks he can go another 3, if that happens we might of been forced to trade whoever we had as his back up or let Manning walk

            Im comfortable letting Brock go somewhere else for a 2nd rounder lol
            Last edited by Joshecalpoly; 06-10-2014, 07:13 AM.
            2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

            Comment

            • onanygivensunda
              Playmaker
              • Sep 2010
              • 1390

              #51
              Originally posted by fallforward3y+ View Post
              Your making the stats that favor Wilson more important, come on now. Yes, of course it's easier to throw less picks when you throw less, and when you throw less long passes have a bigger impact on your YPA and other things. It's easier to be efficient when your asked to do less. The throws are more high percentage, so it's easier to avoid interceptions, and less incompletions.

              Of course it's more challenging the more you throw it, as the more passes you attempt the more chances the defense has to intercept them, and the tougher it is to maintain a high YPA. It's not all about more pass attempts, but it's completely ridiculous to act like it has no impact on efficiency, or that it's just as tough to be efficient with 20 passes a game as it is 40.
              That suggests the likelihood of an interception on any particular pass increases the deeper you get into a game... and it doesn't.

              The likelihood of an interception on any particular pass is independent of the past.

              But I will agree with you that the more any particular QB throws the ball, the more INTs he will incur. That's simply a function of applying his INT % rate to a greater sample size.
              "Mike Harden, meet Steve Largent." KA-BOOM!!

              Comment

              • Chronoless
                Captain
                • Nov 2012
                • 2732

                #52
                Originally posted by TeamCowboys View Post
                Hey Denver fans.

                I just wanted to get your opinion in this article, Top 10 in 2014: The best quarterbacks in the NFL today.



                Of course, we all know who #1 is.

                I mostly agree with the article, but I'd swap Rothlisberger for Matt Ryan, and I don't think Kaepernick and Newton are Top-10 QBs.

                I also thought you guys would be interested in this article, which ranks QBs by Relative Any/A, and Manning takes the #1 All Time spot.

                http://www.footballperspective.com/c...top-5-seasons/
                I agree with one, I don't wanna say Kaepernick is a top 10 yet, because if you put him there base on the success of the 49ers, you might as well put Russell Wilson over him, as far as the top 3, well not trying to be a homer, those three can be swap in any order.
                Originally posted by broncos SB2010
                I doubt Chubb is high on their radar.

                Comment

                • onanygivensunda
                  Playmaker
                  • Sep 2010
                  • 1390

                  #53
                  Originally posted by fallforward3y+ View Post
                  Actually, you are right about that. He does throw deep on a higher percentage of his throws than most QBs, and is efficient with them. However, because the amount of attempts is lower, their downfield attack isn't as dominant. You mentioned it being Manning's game instead of Wilson's, but Manning still has 19 more 20 plus completions than Wilson does.
                  God, I would hope so!!

                  He attempted 252 more passes than Wilson.

                  I figure at least some of them (7.5%) would be down field a bit.
                  "Mike Harden, meet Steve Largent." KA-BOOM!!

                  Comment

                  • onanygivensunda
                    Playmaker
                    • Sep 2010
                    • 1390

                    #54
                    Originally posted by fallforward3y+ View Post
                    Less passing attempts make it easier to maintain that kind of efficiency. Example:Christian Ponder has a higher completion percentage than Russell Wilson does.
                    Now compare the lengths of their passes.

                    Wilson throws a higher % of his passes down field... as a result, he is more susceptible to incompletions and more susceptible to INTs. Compare their INTs to their attempts... no contest.

                    Wilson flat out spins the ball better than Ponder.

                    Ponder dinks and dunks... and so does Manning to a degree.
                    "Mike Harden, meet Steve Largent." KA-BOOM!!

                    Comment

                    • Joshecalpoly
                      Starter
                      • Dec 2005
                      • 11081

                      #55
                      Originally posted by onanygivensunda View Post
                      God, I would hope so!!

                      He attempted 252 more passes than Wilson.

                      I figure at least some of them (7.5%) would be down field a bit.
                      As I stated before nearly 5% more of Wilsons passes are deep. However, he throws less deep balls later in games then Manning does but also throws fewer passes near the end of games then most QB's. In fact the Seahawks take the ball out of Wilsons hands the closer they are to the end of the game, and that is the main reason people do not think highly of him. Though hes had more game winning drives then Newton Kap and RG III, though not more than Luck whose had to carry his team a lot more. Wilsons perception is that the pieces around him are to good for him to fail, its a similar thing Alex Smith has gotten.
                      2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

                      Comment

                      • onanygivensunda
                        Playmaker
                        • Sep 2010
                        • 1390

                        #56
                        Originally posted by Joshecalpoly View Post
                        The NFL is littered with QB's who dont meet expectations and fall out of favor, which is why its to soon to really give Wilson a crown just yet
                        Wilson thrives on pressure.

                        You'll see.

                        Here's a PFF article on QBs and their ability to handle the blitz in 2013... that's pressure, especially for a QB that was in his 2nd year in the league.

                        Here's a excerpt conclusion by the author... it's right beneath the "Vs. Blitz" table.

                        Russell Wilson was the league’s best against the blitz at +21.5 and he did it with one of the highest times to throw at 3.05 seconds. He faced the second highest percentage of blitzes at 39.2 percent.

                        Here's a link to the article... https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...and-the-blitz/
                        "Mike Harden, meet Steve Largent." KA-BOOM!!

                        Comment

                        • Joshecalpoly
                          Starter
                          • Dec 2005
                          • 11081

                          #57
                          Originally posted by onanygivensunda View Post
                          Wilson thrives on pressure.

                          You'll see.

                          Here's a PFF article on QBs and their ability to handle the blitz in 2013... that's pressure, especially for a QB that was in his 2nd year in the league.

                          Here's a excerpt conclusion by the author... it's right beneath the "Vs. Blitz" table.

                          Russell Wilson was the league’s best against the blitz at +21.5 and he did it with one of the highest times to throw at 3.05 seconds. He faced the second highest percentage of blitzes at 39.2 percent.

                          Here's a link to the article... https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...and-the-blitz/
                          Yet hes the most constantly sacked QB in the league, hes under blitz more then other QB's because as weve seen in comparison he waits to long to throw the ball and has O-line who have difficulty protecting him. In some offenses its the QB's job to the the O-line who to pick up (though Luck and Manning do this more), so sometimes its the QB's falt when an asignment is blown.

                          Not being able to get rid of the ball quickly isnt necessarily a good thing, though it could be because your receivers arent open soon enough but its a reason players like Wilson and Cutler get sacked so much
                          Last edited by Joshecalpoly; 06-10-2014, 10:41 AM.
                          2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

                          Comment

                          • onanygivensunda
                            Playmaker
                            • Sep 2010
                            • 1390

                            #58
                            Originally posted by Joshecalpoly View Post
                            In fact the Seahawks take the ball out of Wilsons hands the closer they are to the end of the game...
                            Do you have a source?
                            "Mike Harden, meet Steve Largent." KA-BOOM!!

                            Comment

                            • onanygivensunda
                              Playmaker
                              • Sep 2010
                              • 1390

                              #59
                              Originally posted by Joshecalpoly View Post
                              Yet hes the most constantly sacked QB in the league, hes under blitz more then other QB's because as weve seen in comparison he waits to long to throw the ball and has O-line who have difficulty protecting him. In some offenses its the QB's job to the the O-line who to pick up (though Luck and Manning do this more), so sometimes its the QB's falt when an asignment is blown.
                              So you're saying he the best in the league against the blitz... because he gets a lot of practice at it???

                              That's hilarious.
                              "Mike Harden, meet Steve Largent." KA-BOOM!!

                              Comment

                              • DarkHorse26
                                Starter
                                • Mar 2010
                                • 2702

                                #60
                                Originally posted by onanygivensunda View Post
                                So you're saying he the best in the league against the blitz... because he gets a lot of practice at it???

                                That's hilarious.
                                Wilson is not elite, get over it. Will he be elite someday? Who knows.
                                sigpic

                                Defense wins championships

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