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Tom Brady drops out of top 5 QB's in NFL

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  • #91
    Originally posted by atwaterandstir View Post
    You wont post them because they dont exist......hes a paper QB, with paper success. I asked for some footage, you give me memories of epic battles vs Kyle Orton as examples?

    Rivers cant make a play if you spot him the stage and all the actors.
    oh so it depends on what QB he plays against? he dominated the broncos when cutler was the QB as well, in Denver. speaking of paper champion QB's, isn't your QB peyton manning?

    the absolute king of regular season domination and playoff shortcomings? are you speaking as an expert on the matter?

    you bore me, why don't you try talking some smack about rivers that is even remotely true? you hate the guy because he has dominated your team for so long and want to pretend like he never has?

    go back to your donko fantasy island.
    Last edited by baphamet; 06-08-2014, 04:50 PM.
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    • #92
      Originally posted by Beagle View Post
      Elway because he could scramble...like Stafford.. gives you more options..now if you want to know the better passer...Marino all day..quicker release Marino...better at reading a defense and attacking it..marino early career Elway late..


      I am so glad you are finally admitting you don't understand football and are asking questions to better your knowledge of the game. Welcome to reality
      HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

      yes, that's it. he was better than marino because he could scramble. yep that's a more logical way to judge QB's than actual production or winning LMAO!!!

      you know this is a huge double standard and you are desperately searching for things to avoid admitting it so what do you come up with? his scrambling ability?? haha.

      so tell me, is peyton manning also inferior to all these mobile QB's coming out of the woodwork these days? ya know? since they scramble better than him?

      elway is considered better than marino by most because of his two SB rings and the comebacks, not because of his individual performance (which as a QB there is no such thing as individual performance). both QB's put up great HOF worthy stats but marinos was clearly better.

      its not elways scrambling ability that sets him apart in most sane peoples mind, that is absolutely hilarious you would even suggest that.

      thanks for the laugh, though. :thumb:
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      • #93
        Originally posted by Beagle View Post
        I am shocked you disagreed with yourself.....in the same thread at that lol NOT....Basically you said Stafford was being judged on his win loss record and ALL qbs should be graded like that leaning way more on w/l than stats...so your saying Foutts sucked

        Staffords career is still in its infancy..and no I am not comparing different eras just win loss records . to this point in his career I am not sure Foutts had a winning record or a playoff game under his belt at all( He didnt make the playoff until his 7th year in the league I checked)... and he made the playoff 4 out of 15 years....setting the world on fire that one...lol
        well when stafford's career is over you can judge him then? that's the problem with comparing a retired HOF'er to a young QB that cant even put together a winning season.

        a QB that also makes a lot of mistakes and contributes to his team losing. he had 31 turnovers last year, had that been rivers you would say hes gonna be without a job soon and we both know that is a fact.

        by the way, i'm not disagreeing with myself, im saying it takes more than just winning or just putting up good numbers to be considered an elite QB. especially when you are throwing for all those yards and TD's but turning over the ball like it's going out of style.

        what puzzles me is how come you didn't have this same opinion about rivers when he was turning the ball over a lot but throwing for a lot of yards and TD's?

        that couldn't be a double standard, could it?
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        • #94
          Originally posted by fallforward3y+ View Post
          You've taught him even more, you provided an argument for Elway other than the rings. As in, a reason that actually relates to Elway's individual abilities.
          and you buy that? seriously? you think its his scrambling ability that sets him apart from marino? that's why most think elway was better? not the comebacks or two SB wins but his scrambling ability? lol

          guys, know a failed argument when you see it and move on.
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          • #95
            Originally posted by fallforward3y+ View Post
            Marino. Although Elway was better as a scrambler, Marino's passing ability was significantly better so I'd say that puts him over the top.

            Do you actually think this is some obvious example of how rings matter with a QB, that Marino is clearly inferior?
            you are the first broncos fan i have ever seen say marino was better than elway

            all to save your credibility? no i don't think marino was clearly inferior but i do have elway above him because of the intangibles, you cant measure intangibles by looking at the stat sheet.
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            • #96
              Originally posted by baphamet View Post
              oh so it depends on what QB he plays against? he dominated the broncos when cutler was the QB as well, in Denver. speaking of paper champion QB's, isn't your QB peyton manning?

              the absolute king of regular season domination and playoff shortcomings? are you speaking as an expert on the matter?

              you bore me, why don't you try talking some smack about rivers that is even remotely true? you hate the guy because he has dominated your team for so long and want to pretend like he never has?

              go back to your donko fantasy island.
              Peyton Manning has won 3 AFC Championships and a Super Bowl(so far) ......you are a fool my friend.....

              you will never ever convince people he is a playoff "Choker" with 3 AFC Championships and a SB victory. People who claim this type of resume is a "choke job" has solidified their belief that he is above all others in NFL history. You expect more than that because hes the greatest thing you have ever witnessed.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by baphamet View Post
                well when stafford's career is over you can judge him then? that's the problem with comparing a retired HOF'er to a young QB that cant even put together a winning season.

                a QB that also makes a lot of mistakes and contributes to his team losing. he had 31 turnovers last year, had that been rivers you would say hes gonna be without a job soon and we both know that is a fact.

                by the way, i'm not disagreeing with myself, im saying it takes more than just winning or just putting up good numbers to be considered an elite QB. especially when you are throwing for all those yards and TD's but turning over the ball like it's going out of style.

                what puzzles me is how come you didn't have this same opinion about rivers when he was turning the ball over a lot but throwing for a lot of yards and TD's?

                that couldn't be a double standard, could it?
                LMAO you might want to check your precious stats over the past three seasons there guy......after all these are the only years we have to compare the two.

                Stafford is trusted to throw the ball way more than Rivers so naturally his TDs and yards should be better (and they are)....what surprised me is how close they are in TOs. Rivers commits TOs at a far greater rate than Stafford, the TOs are almost identical despite throwing almost 25% more passes over the same time.
                Last edited by atwaterandstir; 06-08-2014, 06:53 PM.

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                • #98
                  Baprod...the flip flopping fish of smack lol.

                  You guys will never win because baprod has to many aurguements...if your talking about rivers 8-8seasons....then you use his passing yards and TDs as a judge

                  If you talk about a qb with better stats and
                  Less wins...then by gosh everyone knows you mainly judge a qb by wins

                  Then you also find yourself aurgueing about the team strengths and weakness and he can spin it both ways...the way he spins it to brag up rivers...can also be used to degrade another

                  Bapsmack is a flip flopping fish
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                  when do native Americans become human and not mascots

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by baphamet View Post
                    you are the first broncos fan i have ever seen say marino was better than elway

                    all to save your credibility? no i don't think marino was clearly inferior but i do have elway above him because of the intangibles, you cant measure intangibles by looking at the stat sheet.
                    Ah, so that's why you thought that was such a clear cut example, you think I'm a Broncos fan. I'm not, but I do think there are some DEN fans who would agree with me.

                    I agree that there's more to measuring a QB than just stats. Stats don't tell the whole story, as many things don't show up in yards. It won't tell you how well the QB extended the play, how impressive a throw was(such as say, fitting it into a tight window), or them making a smart decision to throw it away when the play wasn't there, their quick release and other things.

                    However, the main point is that a QB should be measured by individual play, not team accomplishments. Those things are all measures of individual play, it's not really about stats versus wins, it's individual play versus wins. The reason why stats don't tell the whole story is because they don't take into account many aspects of individual play, not because 'wins are what makes players great'.

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                    • Originally posted by baphamet View Post
                      and you buy that? seriously? you think its his scrambling ability that sets him apart from marino? that's why most think elway was better? not the comebacks or two SB wins but his scrambling ability? lol

                      guys, know a failed argument when you see it and move on.
                      Oh my lord, do I really have to say this again. I don't care why most people would rate Elway over Marino, an opinion being among the majority doesn't make it true, or a well reasoned argument.

                      The point is, he came up with a reason why he felt Elway was better that actually dealt with Elway's individual play. Thus, he made a much better argument for Elway than the 'but Marino never had a ring' crowd.

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