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Does Anyone Really Believe in John Fox?....Anyone??

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  • Does Anyone Really Believe in John Fox?....Anyone??

    John Elway and the personnel dept, lead by Tom Heckert and Matt Russell have done what I consider to be an outstanding job of adding players that will bring an infusion of talent to the team, both through free agency and the draft process, including our undrafted free agents. On paper, the Broncos are clearly the deepest, most talented team in the AFC, and I don't believe it is really even close. However, there is one nagging question that remains to be answered, and that is can John Fox prove to be equally capable of leading the Broncos to a Super Bowl title?

    Personally, I believe Fox to be the weak link, and I am skeptical he can match wits with the best when it comes to bringing home a world championship. In the last two playoff runs, he was badly out-coached by John Harbaugh in the 4th quarter and into OT in the loss the Ravens, and in the Super Bowl, he quite possibly did the worst job in the history of the Super Bowl in preparing a team against the Seahawks I have ever seen. If you watch the NFL Films version of the Super Bowl, Fox was surprised at the crowd noise and the effect it had on the Broncos early on in the game...get that, crowd noise in the Super Bowl? Really?? This is a man who has coached in the NFL for close to thirty years, and in two SB's previously, and he was taken aback by crowd noise?? Isn't that sorta like a math teacher that forgot how to use a scientific calculator? That, in addition to his proverbial curling up into the fetal position and shutting it down after the Ravens hit the Hail Mary to tie the game the previous year shows clearly this guy is not what it is going to take to get the Broncos to the promised land.

    Fox's record now stands at 0-3 in the SB's, 0-2 as a head coach, and another loss as the DC for the NY Giants in their loss to the Ravens. To me, it's kinda like asking he pace car driver to suddenly jump into the seat of an elite car and race in NASCAR at Daytona. Then again, maybe that is what John Fox is, the Ricky Bobby of NFL Head Coaches.

    In any case, the question that remains for the 2014 season is when, not if, the Broncos come up short again in the playoffs due to John Fox's shortcomings.
    Last edited by Idiot_Kicker; 07-20-2014, 08:33 AM.

  • #2
    John Fox seems to be a goof guy for the players. He won't completely lose control like a McDaniels, but at the same time his poor game management won't help us win a title. So far he's been an average coach in my opinion. The three division titles were more products of good fortune (2011) and Peyton Manning (2012-2013) than the work of a great coach. What happened against Baltimore and Seattle in the last two playoff runs makes me wonder if we will ever win a title with Fox as head coach. Manning and Fox in the playoffs is not a good combination at all. It's like we're doubling our chances of having a bad day.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Idiot_Kicker View Post
      John Elway and the personnel dept, lead by Tom Heckert and Matt Russell have done what I consider to be an outstanding job of adding players that will bring an infusion of talent to the team, both through free agency and the draft process, including our undrafted free agents. On paper, the Broncos are clearly the deepest, most talented team in the AFC, and I don't believe it is really even close. However, there is one nagging question that remains to be answered, and that is can John Fox prove to be equally capable of leading the Broncos to a Super Bowl title?

      Personally, I believe Fox to be the weak link, and I am skeptical he can match wits with the best when it comes to bringing home a world championship. In the last two playoff runs, he was badly out-coached by John Harbaugh in the 4th quarter and into OT in the loss the Ravens, and in the Super Bowl, he quite possibly did the worst job in the history of the Super Bowl in preparing a team against the Seahawks I have ever seen. If you watch the NFL Films version of the Super Bowl, Fox was surprised at the crowd noise and the effect it had on the Broncos early on in the game...get that, crowd noise in the Super Bowl? Really?? This is a man who has coached in the NFL for close to thirty years, and in two SB's previously, and he was taken aback by crowd noise?? Isn't that sorta like a math teacher that forgot how to use a scientific calculator? That, in addition to his proverbial curling up into the fetal position and shutting it down after the Ravens hit the Hail Mary to tie the game the previous year shows clearly this guy is not what it is going to take to get the Broncos to the promised land.

      Fox's record now stands at 0-3 in the SB's, 0-2 as a head coach, and another loss as the DC for the NY Giants in their loss to the Ravens. To me, it's kinas like asking he pace car driver to jump into the seat of an elite car and race in NASCAR. Then again, maybe that is what John Fox is, the Ricky Bobby of NFL Head Coaches.
      I couldn't agree more. I get the sense Fox doesn't even know what he has as a team. Paying a QB 20 mil a year to take a knee and go to ot with time on the clock and the leagues strongest leg on the bench is play not to lies move, and we need to play to win.
      The Super Bowl he seemed surprised by the crowd noise and kept saying there so fast! Our guys didn't need there coach repeating what they were already thinking.
      The game-plan for the Superbowl I don't know how much was Manning and Gase but Seattle played 4 defensive ends a lot on the front line ( Irvin, Clemons, Bennett, Avril) why Fox didn't notice this a make them pay by running at them is ridiculous. I believe he can give us a tough disciplined defense like he did with his Carolina team and even our 2011&2012squads. But somebody needs to get Peyton in line and balance out our run game. If we do Mannings passing game will open up even more. Fox is probably to blind to see it, he's on a runaway train and he's just enjoying the ride.
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      • #4
        I do believe in John Elway and if he believes that Fox is the man for the job then that's good enough for me.

        My question would be, would a High Octane Coach hurt the team with his mind set and hard driven decisions like we seen with the last guy ?

        I would stick with Fox until at least Manning retires as his opinion really matters with this staff and we shouldn't change anything at the moment
        We are the Organization that " EVERYONE " wants to be a part of


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        • #5
          Serious question, could Mike Shanahan come back and lead this team?

          My problem with Shanahan was his personnel decisions, but if Elway and Russell/Heckert controlled the personnel, Shanahan could focus on coaching...at least we know he can prepare an elite team when it counts.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by theflammer View Post
            I do believe in John Elway and if he believes that Fox is the man for the job then that's good enough for me.

            My question would be, would a High Octane Coach hurt the team with his mind set and hard driven decisions like we seen with the last guy ?

            I would stick with Fox until at least Manning retires as his opinion really matters with this staff and we shouldn't change anything at the moment
            This is probably true, unless the team were to really underachieve this season. In that case, the Broncos would have to go with either JDR or Adam Gase as a replacement.

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            • #7
              After watching Sound FX of the SB several times... and after watching the SB itself six or eight times, I saw a HC in John Fox that wasn't doing anything to turn the tide of the game. Same can be said for Peyton as well. His demeanor was completely devoid of being the team leader.

              After the opening safety, both Fox and Manning should have huddled up the offense and sent the message to forget that play and focus on the present... and reinforce that they were in a dog fight and if they didn't bite back they were going to get whipped. I saw none of that on the Denver sideline.
              "Mike Harden, meet Steve Largent." KA-BOOM!!

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              • #8
                I'm torn. Fox makes me crazy with some of his decisions and he really pissed me off in the SB with his lack of coaching on the sidelines and lack of making adjustments.

                However, Elway knows what this team needs to win and he makes moves to get it. He seems to have a lot of faith in Fox so I guess he sees more in him than I certainly do. So, I guess I go with Elway's belief in Fox for now. But my trust is REALLY thin.
                Adopted Bronco: DeMarcus Ware

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Idiot_Kicker View Post
                  Serious question, could Mike Shanahan come back and lead this team?

                  My problem with Shanahan was his personnel decisions, but if Elway and Russell/Heckert controlled the personnel, Shanahan could focus on coaching...at least we know he can prepare an elite team when it counts.
                  Shanahan is a great OC that reached his level of incompentcy as a HC.

                  His ego needed to be reeled in by a strong HC. Which he had with the 9ers.

                  If he would have had a strong GM whe he was here to moderate the firing of coordinators at a whim. As well as making all of the personel decisions I believe he would have been even more successful while here.

                  But him coming back is a fools dream.

                  As far as fox his players play well for him, he is strong in the defensive side of the game.

                  IMO we would not have brought in as many players that blossomed under him Vick and pot roast first come to mind.

                  Perhaps even WW and DT (LB) there would. It have been a priority under shanny to do that. I believe that John would not have been as aggressive on defense as he has been with out Fox.

                  He is a bit more Run first than I like , but there is litte doubt that manning stemmed that with his coming to the team.

                  Could we do better? Name a team in the NFL that could not be upgraded at HC. They all have their warts in some manner.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by theflammer View Post

                    I would stick with Fox until at least Manning retires as his opinion really matters with this staff and we shouldn't change anything at the moment
                    if i were a broncos fan that is the mindset i would take. with fox i would definitely be concerned about the overall development of your next QB, though.

                    unless you somehow land another one via FA.
                    Last edited by baphamet; 07-20-2014, 03:18 PM.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Garfield View Post
                      Shanahan is a great OC that reached his level of incompentcy as a HC.

                      His ego needed to be reeled in by a strong HC. Which he had with the 9ers.

                      If he would have had a strong GM whe he was here to moderate the firing of coordinators at a whim. As well as making all of the personel decisions I believe he would have been even more successful while here.

                      But him coming back is a fools dream.

                      As far as fox his players play well for him, he is strong in the defensive side of the game.

                      IMO we would not have brought in as many players that blossomed under him Vick and pot roast first come to mind.

                      Perhaps even WW and DT (LB) there would. It have been a priority under shanny to do that. I believe that John would not have been as aggressive on defense as he has been with out Fox.

                      He is a bit more Run first than I like , but there is litte doubt that manning stemmed that with his coming to the team.

                      Could we do better? Name a team in the NFL that could not be upgraded at HC. They all have their warts in some manner.
                      I agree, Shanahan could never come back.

                      If the Broncos were to underachieve this season, and go say 10-6, I could see the Broncos replacing Fox, but that would probably point to one of the coordinators.

                      Adam Gase almost became the head coach of the Cleveland Browns, and that would keep the offense in tact. Obviously, JDR already ran the team filling in for Fox last season.

                      The only other possibility to me would be Gary Kubiak, who I personally hope becomes the next HC of the Broncos anyway, but that's just me.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Idiot_Kicker View Post
                        I agree, Shanahan could never come back.

                        If the Broncos were to underachieve this season, and go say 10-6, I could see the Broncos replacing Fox, but that would probably point to one of the coordinators.

                        Adam Gase almost became the head coach of the Cleveland Browns, and that would keep the offense in tact. Obviously, JDR already ran the team filling in for Fox last season.

                        The only other possibility to me would be Gary Kubiak, who I personally hope becomes the next HC of the Broncos anyway, but that's just me.

                        Unless the team pulls a fubar as in the entire team. odd are that we repeat. at least as far as afcw champs.

                        with Home field we should go back to the game.

                        however if injuries pile up in the wrong places that stuff changes.

                        the players are not going to not perform for Fox like they laid down for Shanahan or were not prepared in some of those trap games.

                        As for Kubes I thought he did a great job while in Denver, in fact I thought many times after he left that perhaps it was him and not Shannny that made the magic for most of those years.

                        But his players quit on him in Houston IMO and because of that I would not like to see him back until he has a couple of years OFF.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Idiot_Kicker View Post
                          I agree, Shanahan could never come back.

                          If the Broncos were to underachieve this season, and go say 10-6, I could see the Broncos replacing Fox, but that would probably point to one of the coordinators.

                          Adam Gase almost became the head coach of the Cleveland Browns, and that would keep the offense in tact. Obviously, JDR already ran the team filling in for Fox last season.

                          The only other possibility to me would be Gary Kubiak, who I personally hope becomes the next HC of the Broncos anyway, but that's just me.
                          Well I would have loved Kubes, if Tebow was still our QB. He was close go getting fired and coming here in 2011, and I think that the 2011 season had been much better if most of the playbook pages was from the 2005 playbook. Manning in many ways negate the flaws that Fox has, but not stupid things like not trying for a field goal with 40 seconds left in a game where the Ravens had just pulled our pants down and spanked our bottoms.

                          I never liked the Fox signing - (bring out the smack) and would have preferred McDaniels in 2011 with Elway as his babysitter. I thought that Fox was a poor combo with a QB that needed development, but right now - with Manning as our QB - Elway can tell Fox to man up when it counts. That is easier than to experiment with Mannings final years.

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                          • #14
                            John Elway and John Fox took a disaster and turned it around having won the division every year. Elway and Bowlen hired John Fox to be Head Coach. As long as he's OK with Elway, it's fine for me, too. :2cents:
                            "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                              John Elway and John Fox took a disaster and turned it around having won the division every year. Elway and Bowlen hired John Fox to be Head Coach. As long as he's OK with Elway, it's fine for me, too. :2cents:
                              As said in another thread - I might (well will) disagree with Elway at time, but there are no one that loves the Broncos more, and there is no doubt that the decisions he makes are for the right reasons seen through orange glasses.

                              So far he is doing pretty well (understatement).

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