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2016 rookie and FA pick up watch

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  • 2016 rookie and FA pick up watch

    with all the talk in the offseason about how good elway is as a GM and how bad the chargers GM is, i thought it would be interesting to take a look at how the rookies and FA pick ups are doing so far.

    keep in mind i know only 6 games have been played and i'm well aware of the chargers and broncos current record.

    CHARGERS

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro...m_campaign=nfl

    the chargers have two rookies on their top 10 rookie list and really could have 3 with jatavis brown. if bosa keeps playing the way he has it looks like he could run away with DROY.

    so far the chargers 1st, 2nd, and 5th round picks look amazing. but let's not forget the equally amazing job they have done bringing in FA's this year as well.

    1. brandon mebane (81.9 pff grade)

    one of multiple absolute steals the chargers got in FA, to me it's because of this guy the chargers went from having arguably the worst run defense in the NFL to having a near top 10 quality run defense.

    2. casey hayward (83.7 pff grade) another steal in FA and the chargers would be in huge trouble right now without this guy due to losing verrett for the season and flowers for multiple games.

    3. matt slauson (73.8 pff grade) another steal IMO, especially considering the chargers signed him 2 months after FA started. he has added stability and leadership to the center position, something they have not had since nick hardwick retired.

    4. dwight lowery (79.4 pff grade)

    people talked smack about how much of a downgrade he would be from weddle but he has actually played pretty well and is now our best safety IMO

    5. travis benjamin (70.0 pff grade) this is the one FA pick up i have been a little disappointed in, even though he has been decent in the passing game at times. he was supposed to help our punt return game and has failed miserably there but all and all if this is the worst move they made this past off season, then i can't really complain much.

    honestly, the new additions tom telsco and the chargers have made this past offseason are paying huge dividends and it's the only reason the chargers are remaining competitive after sending 18 guys to IR (other than rivers of course )

    can you name another team who had a better off season looking back at this point? the only thing you can say they did wrong is the way they handled the joey bosa signing and letting weddle walk, even though the defense doesn't seem to miss him all that much anyways.

    the only thing i wonder is, what would have happened if bosa was starting from week 1? if he keeps up the dominating play and the chargers barely mis the playoffs, the chargers absolutely will deserve to be ridiculed on how they handled that situation.
    Last edited by baphamet; 10-19-2016, 12:52 PM.
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  • #2
    BRONCOS

    a lot of rookies take time to develop so i'm not saying all these guys are busts but is janovich really your best rookie this year? is there anyone else that is playing decent or even getting any significant playing time?

    lynch is not a first round quality QB, he is a developmental QB like brock. your rookie DL'man only has 51 snaps so far this year and it's not like there are stars in front of him.

    your rookie RB is not very impressive so far but he was a 4th rounder so it couldn't be any worse than some of the high draft pick RB's elway has whiffed on lol

    your other rookies i dont know a whole lot about but other than janovich it seems like they are not helping your team much so far.

    now, lets get to the fun part, the denver 2016 FA pick up class

    1. Donald Stephenson (41.9 pff grade)

    this dude was a back up in KC and he is a liability so far in denver as a starter.

    2. mark sanchez (no grade)

    i think we can safely say that was a failure of a pick up for the broncos, much to the chagrin of 58miller lol

    3. Russell Okung (72.0 pff grade)

    this might be your best FA pick up, he helps your OL but still nothing spectacular if we are talking about your best FA pick up.

    4. jared crick (46.5 pff grade)

    i always pull for nebraska players but need i say anymore than this......



    5. Billy Winn (66.9 pff grade)

    it's pretty comical to me that according to pff this back up quality player is performing the best out of all your DL'men lol

    am i missing anyone of note? is this really who the donkey fan proclaim as a genius GM making his team better each and every year?

    again, i know it's early and i know the broncos have a better record than the chargers but what i was saying all offseason about elway.....this year being his truest test as a GM and how i was not sold yet on how great of a GM he is, it's really starting to shine through and prove me correct.
    Last edited by baphamet; 10-19-2016, 01:01 PM.
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    • #3
      thread title fail

      {insert fail meme here]
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      • #4
        I do think Elway had a rocky (no pun intended) offseason because of several things coming together: the championship ceremonies, contract dispute with Von Miller, Brock Osweiler leaving... It was a championship team entering the offseason with several key free agents that also include Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan. Von Miller wanting to be the highest paid defender. Elway having to improvise after losing Osweiler. A lot of things going on. Then C.J. Anderson received the wrong tender IMO which generated an offer by the Dolphins. That was a blunder for sure. I don't think the plan was for Crick to start, but Vance Walker was lost for the season with a knee injury.

        I don't see how this year is his truest test as a GM. He already built this team up from the ashes of the McDaniels disaster and won the Super Bowl. The fact is that Peyton Manning retired and Osweiler took Houston's money, leaving the team in a transition period at the QB position. Elway was aggressvive and traded up to secure his 1st-round QB. Now we have to wait for his development and let Trevor Siemian, a 7th-round QB, hold the fort for a while. You can see how high the standards have become around here when there is panic after 2 losses. In 2010, the Broncos won 4 games. Now, 2 losses make the fans overreact and hit the panic button because we're used to winning. Even before McDaniels ruined everything, the Broncos were getting used to 7-9 wins with Shanahan.

        Now this team just won a SB, is still 1st in the AFC West at 4-2 and Elway is proving you correct? How about no?
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        • #5
          First the Chargers run defense has been good for two reasons only..they have been ahead forcing teams to throw and 2 the teams the have played are not running teams best teams you have faced running the Ball, teams were ranked 13th(chiefs and they had to throw because the fell way behind but Ware had 70 yards on 11 carries yikes) 14th 17th 19th 29th and 31st
          Broncos have faced 6th, 9th,17th 22nd 24th and 27th
          Secondly before this week Stephenson was grading out at 75+ he had one bad game because of penalties in pass protection coming back early from an injury

          No Talk about our FBs? I like how you failed to mention Booker has 4.7 ypcalso just wrote him off...


          Lets just be real here ,The fact that Winn grades out better than all 3 guys starting ahead of him says all that needs to be said about judging players as better or worse by the PFF grades at this point in the season :thumb:


          Keep cherry picking stats to "try" and make points they will just come back to bite you in the long run.


          P.S. I dont think the Chargers did badly in this past draft or in FA I just think. you are underestimating the Broncos as usual
          Last edited by Beagle; 10-19-2016, 05:19 PM.
          Originally posted by baphamet
          are you talking career or right now? because i don't see how you can say manning is top 5 even healthy.dude will never be a top 5 QB again, he is done.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by -Rod- View Post
            I do think Elway had a rocky (no pun intended) offseason because of several things coming together: the championship ceremonies, contract dispute with Von Miller, Brock Osweiler leaving... It was a championship team entering the offseason with several key free agents that also include Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan. Von Miller wanting to be the highest paid defender. Elway having to improvise after losing Osweiler. A lot of things going on. Then C.J. Anderson received the wrong tender IMO which generated an offer by the Dolphins. That was a blunder for sure. I don't think the plan was for Crick to start, but Vance Walker was lost for the season with a knee injury.

            I don't see how this year is his truest test as a GM. He already built this team up from the ashes of the McDaniels disaster and won the Super Bowl. The fact is that Peyton Manning retired and Osweiler took Houston's money, leaving the team in a transition period at the QB position. Elway was aggressvive and traded up to secure his 1st-round QB. Now we have to wait for his development and let Trevor Siemian, a 7th-round QB, hold the fort for a while. You can see how high the standards have become around here when there is panic after 2 losses. In 2010, the Broncos won 4 games. Now, 2 losses make the fans overreact and hit the panic button because we're used to winning. Even before McDaniels ruined everything, the Broncos were getting used to 7-9 wins with Shanahan.

            Now this team just won a SB, is still 1st in the AFC West at 4-2 and Elway is proving you correct? How about no?
            Because he has jumped through every other hoop Barph put out there for him so he moved the bar higher. You dont understand how barph works
            Last edited by Beagle; 10-19-2016, 05:48 PM.
            Originally posted by baphamet
            are you talking career or right now? because i don't see how you can say manning is top 5 even healthy.dude will never be a top 5 QB again, he is done.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by -Rod- View Post
              I do think Elway had a rocky (no pun intended) offseason because of several things coming together: the championship ceremonies, contract dispute with Von Miller, Brock Osweiler leaving... It was a championship team entering the offseason with several key free agents that also include Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan. Von Miller wanting to be the highest paid defender. Elway having to improvise after losing Osweiler. A lot of things going on. Then C.J. Anderson received the wrong tender IMO which generated an offer by the Dolphins. That was a blunder for sure. I don't think the plan was for Crick to start, but Vance Walker was lost for the season with a knee injury.

              I don't see how this year is his truest test as a GM. He already built this team up from the ashes of the McDaniels disaster and won the Super Bowl. The fact is that Peyton Manning retired and Osweiler took Houston's money, leaving the team in a transition period at the QB position. Elway was aggressvive and traded up to secure his 1st-round QB. Now we have to wait for his development and let Trevor Siemian, a 7th-round QB, hold the fort for a while. You can see how high the standards have become around here when there is panic after 2 losses. In 2010, the Broncos won 4 games. Now, 2 losses make the fans overreact and hit the panic button because we're used to winning. Even before McDaniels ruined everything, the Broncos were getting used to 7-9 wins with Shanahan.

              Now this team just won a SB, is still 1st in the AFC West at 4-2 and Elway is proving you correct? How about no?
              i'm not going to rehash everything that was said all off season but you touched on in your first paragraph why i thought this season would be his truest test as a GM. he can't build his team through FA anymore, he's going to have to actually make smart picks as well as bring in the right guys in FA, budget guys, not huge money FA's like talib and ware.

              i'm not even talking about wins and losses here, the broncos could be undefeated right now and every point i am making here would still stand assuming the players production was no different.

              if elway continues to have off seasons like this one it won't be long before your team is a bottom feeder and thta ring from last year will not change that.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Beagle View Post
                Because he has jumped through every other hoop Barph put out there for him so he moved the bar higher. You dont understand how barph works
                because he built his SB team through FA and now he can't do that anymore, that is why i wasn't so quick to crown him the best GM in football and why i said this would be his truest test as a GM.

                tell me, was i wrong? is this not the toughest off season of his GM career? is this not the worst off season of his GM career? of course i moved the bar high when you got fans saying how great of a GM he is, making posts asking if he can get into the HOF as a GM and QB....

                when elway gets held to that high standard you set just remember, it's your fault.
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                • #9
                  What's exactly the issue with building the team through FA? How many GMs have tried to do it and failed? How many paid big money to top FAs and did not get the wins? As if building through FA is an 100% fail-proof system. I really, really wanted the draft to be the ultimate team builder and the weapon of choice for the best teams with the most skilled GMs, but let's be honest... Today's salary cap and FA market are killing the draft classes built by the GMs. Even when the GM makes a good pick, the player needs some time to develop and then, when he's really on top of his game, he becomes a FA and 31 other teams can take the player away.

                  Unless we're talking about 1st-round picks, you get 4 seasons of service and then the player is gone. Sometimes the player needs 1, 2 or even 3 seasons to make an impact. And teams need to stack multiple draft classes together to build depth and improve considerably. When you have all these draft classes together, filled with good players, the players from the older class become free agents and the other teams throw a bunch of money at them. Why? Because they are building through FA. Almost everyone does that.

                  There are teams like the Packers and Bengals that truly build through the draft, but, for the most part, teams build through FA. They build depth through the draft, develop some players, and then when these players become really good they're FAs and the GM either pays top-market money or loses the player to other other teams building through FA. Elway built this defense from the ground up, and not just with high priced FAs. There are bargain deals like Darian Stewart and, before getting his new deal, Brandon Marshall was a practice-squad guy cut by the Jaguars 3 times. In his first 5 drafts, Elway's top picks were all defensive players. All of those 5 players are still with the team, either starting or contributing heavily as if they were starters (Roby, Ray).

                  Credit Elway for having enough depth through the draft to be able to spend and build a SB team through FA. Many GMs can't do this because they are tied to bad contracts and spent the money on the wrong resources. What exactly was the Chargers GM doing when he paid top money to Orlando Franklin in 2015? He was building through FA, paying the top of the market to have one of Elway's guys. And other GMs did the same with Julius Thomas, Malik Jackson... Almost everybody is trying to build through FA to get to the SB.
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                  • #10
                    You said it yourself. It is too early to bring rookies into this. Free agents you can do. However, lets discuss in 2 more years about this draft class. Anyway, Booker has started to look very impressive the last two weeks, actually. Much better than Gordon ever looked last year. So, if you were willing to give Melvin some time as a first rounder, then don't be hypocritical.

                    Also, you rely a bit too much on PFF grades. I understand that they take the time to look at every play. But, any kind of grading of a game as intricate as football is always going to be subjective. I'm not saying they're never reasonable or right about certain things. I just think that you shouldn't necessarily rely on it as the "end all" the way you seem to do.
                    Last edited by ksubroncosfan; 10-22-2016, 10:55 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ksubroncosfan View Post
                      You said it yourself. It is too early to bring rookies into this. Free agents you can do. However, lets discuss in 2 more years about this draft class. Anyway, Booker has started to look very impressive the last two weeks, actually. Much better than Ingram ever did last year. So, if you were willing to give Melvin some time as a first rounder, then don't be hypocritical.

                      Also, you rely a bit too much on PFF grades. I understand that they take the time to look at every play. But, any kind of grading of a game as intricate as football is always going to be subjective. I'm not saying they're never reasonable or right about certain things. I just think that you shouldn't necessarily rely on it as the "end all" the way you seem to do.
                      He's given Melgram a lot of time and even though he's a player, he's no where Von Miller status as argued by some san derp eggos.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
                        He's given Melgram a lot of time and even though he's a player, he's no where Von Miller status as argued by some san derp eggos.
                        That one actually works too. But, I was speaking of Melvin Gordon. I didn't mean to put Ingram in the sentence before lol. That was my fault. Because, he stated that Booker hasn't been impressive. I was arguing that he finally has started to look impressive over the last couple of games. It is hypocritical of him to judge our fourth round rookie running back who hasn't had many opportunities yet, when his first round RB failed to score a single TD last year and he kept clamoring for giving him more time. Which is why you CANNOT compare draft classes this early.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Beagle View Post
                          First the Chargers run defense has been good for two reasons only..they have been ahead forcing teams to throw and 2 the teams the have played are not running teams best teams you have faced running the Ball, teams were ranked 13th(chiefs and they had to throw because the fell way behind but Ware had 70 yards on 11 carries yikes) 14th 17th 19th 29th and 31st
                          Broncos have faced 6th, 9th,17th 22nd 24th and 27th
                          Secondly before this week Stephenson was grading out at 75+ he had one bad game because of penalties in pass protection coming back early from an injury

                          No Talk about our FBs? I like how you failed to mention Booker has 4.7 ypcalso just wrote him off...


                          Lets just be real here ,The fact that Winn grades out better than all 3 guys starting ahead of him says all that needs to be said about judging players as better or worse by the PFF grades at this point in the season :thumb:


                          Keep cherry picking stats to "try" and make points they will just come back to bite you in the long run.


                          P.S. I dont think the Chargers did badly in this past draft or in FA I just think. you are underestimating the Broncos as usual
                          1. go look up what backs are averaging against us per rush, it's top 10 in the NFL.

                          2. i did mention your FB, did you read the post?

                          your other rookies i dont know a whole lot about but other than janovich it seems like they are not helping your team much so far.
                          3. the fact that booker isn't getting more playing time when anderson isn't playing great says a lot.

                          4. your DL is garbage, quit trying to deny it. you know it, i know it, everybody knows it. your defense is still good despite that because you still have the best outside pass rush in the NFL and your secondary is still really good too.

                          i'm not underestimating the broncos team, i'm talking soley about what happened this past off season, because GM's have been a hot topic around here since you love to act like yours is/should be HOF bound.
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ksubroncosfan View Post
                            You said it yourself. It is too early to bring rookies into this. Free agents you can do. However, lets discuss in 2 more years about this draft class. Anyway, Booker has started to look very impressive the last two weeks, actually. Much better than Gordon ever looked last year. So, if you were willing to give Melvin some time as a first rounder, then don't be hypocritical.

                            Also, you rely a bit too much on PFF grades. I understand that they take the time to look at every play. But, any kind of grading of a game as intricate as football is always going to be subjective. I'm not saying they're never reasonable or right about certain things. I just think that you shouldn't necessarily rely on it as the "end all" the way you seem to do.
                            read my post....actually read it and then respond. the very first thing i said is this.....

                            a lot of rookies take time to develop so i'm not saying all these guys are busts but is janovich really your best rookie this year?
                            i don't know how i can make it any more clear than that? oh and how many of you did call gordon a bust last year? you are just whining because you don't like the content in this post and you cannot argue it.

                            talk about hypocrisy? sure things can change in the next couple years and we can discuss it, too bad you broncos fans don't hold your tongue about chargers players until they been in the league 3 years, huh?

                            i personally don't like to talk about rookies that have never played an NFL snap, that is what i'm talking about in the pre-season....not after 6 games when we have at least had some time to see what these guys can do.

                            again, i'm not saying any of them are busts, i'm just talking about so far and i was very clear about that from the very beginning.

                            as far ad pff goes, no i don't put too much into the grades, they don't mean everything. but i take that over what any of you say about a player, especially a non broncos player because you guys don't know as well as these guys and neither do i.

                            there is a reason NFL teams pay to use their data.

                            lastly, if the role was reversed and the broncos off season moves were doing as good as the chargers and theirs weren't....you guys would be talking about it here in smack and you know it, so quit crying and step your game us kids!
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
                              He's given Melgram a lot of time and even though he's a player, he's no where Von Miller status as argued by some san derp eggos.
                              someone else didn't read and is just here to troll because, well that's all you got.
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