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Tom Brady- 5th Most wins in NFL History

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post

    As for QB wins, the QB (all of them) get too much credit for a win and they get too much blame in losses. A QB could do absolutely nothing in a game, have his team score a safety on defense win 2-0 and that's counted as a win for him. Meanwhile he could put up 600 yards passing throw for 6 touchdowns but if the defense is awful they lose.
    .
    I agree with this. Same thing with wins/losses for a pitcher in MLB. I think when all is said and done, TB will be a best QB in NFL history - but his win totals won't count that much in the rationale.

    Wins are a team stat - what this shows is how good the Pats have been over the last 15 years.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
      1 Super Bowl win in 11 years, how many of those career wins came between the Super Bowl wins in the "dynasty?" Yep Dynasties don't take 1o years off from winning.

      As for QB wins, the QB (all of them) get too much credit for a win and they get too much blame in losses. A QB could do absolutely nothing in a game, have his team score a safety on defense win 2-0 and that's counted as a win for him. Meanwhile he could put up 600 yards passing throw for 6 touchdowns but if the defense is awful they lose.

      The impressive thing about Brady's record is the Patriots REGULAR SEASON, dominance during his time with the team. Of course that could coincide with Belichick, and since Belichick has a much bigger role on the overall team, he should get the credit, but I digress. Of course that regular season dominance hasn't translated to a lot of playoff success int he last 11 years.
      You're not impressed with brady's post season record of 22-9? No other QB comes close. In the past 11 years, he's been to 3 super bowls and won 1. It's pretty successful.

      As far as QBs getting too much credit for a win, you can make the same argument for pitchers in baseball. Their teammates do a lot to help out in the win like scoring runs and making plays on the field, but like a pitcher, the QB touches the ball more and has a greater say in the outcome than anyone. And for ANY stat you throw out there, you could make the same argument that you do. Where would manning be without his receivers catching a ton of passes, or his oline doesn't do his job in blocking, or his defense creating a turnover?
      Last edited by TommyBrady12; 12-07-2016, 05:52 AM.
      Super Bowl Wins: Brady - 6 Elway - 2 Manning - 2 (played well in none and took HGH)

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      • #78
        Originally posted by TommyBrady12 View Post
        You're not impressed with brady's post season record of 22-9? No other QB comes close. In the past 11 years, he's been to 3 super bowls and won 1. It's pretty successful.

        As far as QBs getting too much credit for a win, you can make the same argument for pitchers in baseball. Their teammates do a lot to help out in the win like scoring runs and making plays on the field, but like a pitcher, the QB touches the ball more and has a greater say in the outcome than anyone. And for ANY stat you throw out there, you could make the same argument that you do. Where would manning be without his receivers catching a ton of passes, or his oline doesn't do his job in blocking, or his defense creating a turnover?
        Last part first, I agree the W/L record for pitchers is overrated as well. It was good to see the media acknowledge that when King Felix won the Cy Young a few years ago despite a pedestrian W/L record, because he dominated and got no run support. Yes in football all offensive stats are somewhat dependant on 10 other players doing their jobs, but a lot of them do deal with things that a player can actually have a lot of input in. For instance lets look at pass yards and Tom Brady in particular, I've been upfront on my feelings about Brady, and a huge number of his passing yards come from he receivers getting YAC, but Brady is very good at putting the ball where the receiver can catch the ball and go ahead and get YAC. So Brady (just as an example) does things to contribute directly to those stats. Which to me makes it more valid. Does he contribute to wins? Of course, but a QB is dependant on the defense doing their job, special teams making plays or at least playing even etc. So wins are more out of their hands. That's why I think wins and losses for QBs are overrated. Of course they're making it about everyone now, PFT posted an article the other day about Vinatieri's career wins.

        Now onto the second part: No I guess I'm blinded by his last 11 years where they've won 1 Super Bowl. Pats fans used to love talking about how Manning came up short in the playoffs all the time, however they completely ignore the fact that Brady and the Pats have done the exact same thing in 10 of the last 11 years. Not to mention they were a better play call (not specifically a run, but just a pass that stresses the Pats D) away from making it 11 of 11. In the last 11 years Manning went to 4 and won 2. Just saying.

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        • #79
          I'm gonna end the argument right here:

          You guys have/had a cheesy logo. Look at that. After announcing the red coats were coming, Paul revere hopped off his horse for a game of football.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
            Last part first, I agree the W/L record for pitchers is overrated as well. It was good to see the media acknowledge that when King Felix won the Cy Young a few years ago despite a pedestrian W/L record, because he dominated and got no run support. Yes in football all offensive stats are somewhat dependant on 10 other players doing their jobs, but a lot of them do deal with things that a player can actually have a lot of input in. For instance lets look at pass yards and Tom Brady in particular, I've been upfront on my feelings about Brady, and a huge number of his passing yards come from he receivers getting YAC, but Brady is very good at putting the ball where the receiver can catch the ball and go ahead and get YAC. So Brady (just as an example) does things to contribute directly to those stats. Which to me makes it more valid. Does he contribute to wins? Of course, but a QB is dependant on the defense doing their job, special teams making plays or at least playing even etc. So wins are more out of their hands. That's why I think wins and losses for QBs are overrated. Of course they're making it about everyone now, PFT posted an article the other day about Vinatieri's career wins.

            Now onto the second part: No I guess I'm blinded by his last 11 years where they've won 1 Super Bowl. Pats fans used to love talking about how Manning came up short in the playoffs all the time, however they completely ignore the fact that Brady and the Pats have done the exact same thing in 10 of the last 11 years. Not to mention they were a better play call (not specifically a run, but just a pass that stresses the Pats D) away from making it 11 of 11. In the last 11 years Manning went to 4 and won 2. Just saying.
            The problem with your argument is that you can argue that about ALL stats. Peyton has the most TDs ever thrown, but he had help from receivers, blockers, TEs, and defenses. By your logic, we should throw out all stats because they are the product of teamwork, and in that case they should only keep stats in a sport like tennis or bowling.

            In the past 11 years, brady has come up short but it more often than not it's in the AFCCG or Super Bowl. Manning coming up short was many times in the wild card or divisional. 5 one-and-dones since 2006. By contrast, Brady has had 2 one-and-dones since 2004. You can't win the super bowl every year, but no one does it better in the playoffs than TB12.
            Super Bowl Wins: Brady - 6 Elway - 2 Manning - 2 (played well in none and took HGH)

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Assassin27 View Post
              Isn't that what the Broncos did in 1997 when the Packers embarrassed the Pats the year before in the SB. So I guess we are even.
              Do u really want to talk about super bowl embarrassments, I think the doncos have that covered. Some great Superbowl games against the 49ers, redskins, giants and Seahawks.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Assassin27 View Post
                Its 3 SBs. Belichick didn't need to do anything with LT on that team. It is well documented that LT never listened to Belichick or Parcells. LT did what ever he wanted and the Giants coaching staff couldn't control him.
                If the Pats had to play the same teams the Broncos did in the 80's the same thing would have happened to the Pats. We didn't get to play against McPuke and Delhomme . We had to play the REAL GOAT Montana, Rice, Lott, LT, Banks and the Hoggs....HELLO wake up kid! No comparison to the competition.
                Thats Excuse #2

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                  2005 The Broncos ended the Patriots hope of a three peat! Brady couldn't beat Jake Plummer, remember? And he had a chance but threw a pick to Champion in the endzone....clutch!
                  But where were the doncos the years the pats made it too the superbowls? Which is six.
                  Last edited by Three peat; 12-08-2016, 11:06 AM.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
                    Ive pointed this out to him many times and he always sidesteps and ignores it.

                    Typical

                    Another thing that they fail to realize is the Denver broncos organization is a very classy and historic organization and the lowest point of its existence came during the final year of Josh Mc idiots head coach run here in Denver.

                    Isn't that something? A franchise that has been around for more than 50 years and their lowest point came when New England's Josh Mc dummy was the head coach here in Denver. Yet they can sit there and brag about their four Super Bowl victories, six Super Bowl appearances altogether and they don't even consider the fact or feel ashamed that those are all asterisk Super Bowl appearances.
                    That's excuse #3

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                      1 Super Bowl win in 11 years, how many of those career wins came between the Super Bowl wins in the "dynasty?" Yep Dynasties don't take 1o years off from winning.

                      As for QB wins, the QB (all of them) get too much credit for a win and they get too much blame in losses. A QB could do absolutely nothing in a game, have his team score a safety on defense win 2-0 and that's counted as a win for him. Meanwhile he could put up 600 yards passing throw for 6 touchdowns but if the defense is awful they lose.

                      The impressive thing about Brady's record is the Patriots REGULAR SEASON, dominance during his time with the team. Of course that could coincide with Belichick, and since Belichick has a much bigger role on the overall team, he should get the credit, but I digress. Of course that regular season dominance hasn't translated to a lot of playoff success int he last 11 years.
                      How come you started 2011, lets start with 2001 and the question being how many times did the mighty doncos make the superbowl not even talking about winning it since 2001?

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Three peat View Post
                        That's excuse #3
                        Can you believe this nonsense? They are blaming McDaniels as the "low point" in their franchise just because he's associated with NE. Do you see any pats fans blaming pete carroll or any other coach here who did not do so well? THEIR owner hired Josh McDaniels and knew very well he was young and had no prior experience as an HC. If anything, it's their owner's fault.
                        Super Bowl Wins: Brady - 6 Elway - 2 Manning - 2 (played well in none and took HGH)

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by TommyBrady12 View Post
                          Can you believe this nonsense? They are blaming McDaniels as the "low point" in their franchise just because he's associated with NE. Do you see any pats fans blaming pete carroll or any other coach here who did not do so well? THEIR owner hired Josh McDaniels and knew very well he was young and had no prior experience as an HC. If anything, it's their owner's fault.
                          Doncos team color is orange/blue/white but the donco fans color is green with patriots envy.

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                          • #88
                            Why are you starting at 2001? Oh, never mind, that's when you jumped on the bandwagon. You do realize football existed before that, right????
                            sigpic

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                            • #89
                              The argument of who is the GOAT is the worst argument to have........

                              I don't comment too often because you Patriots fans boast complete opinionated garbage. The only arguments you ever make are Brady this and Brady that..... You never look at complete history of the game. You do realize it looks like none of you were fans prior to 2001 and if that's the case because you are too young to know otherwise, fine. I think Brady is one of the best ever. I also think Manning, Montana, Marino, Elway, Johnny U., Staubach, etc. are in the group of best ever. You see, the game changes so much over time it's impossible to know who is. Nobody knows how Johnny U. would have played in the 80's - 90's... Nobody knows how Elway, Montana, and Marino would have played in today's game. Nobody knows how Brady and Manning would have played in the 70's..... So you have to look at the bigger picture, not just through your rose tented glasses. True, The Patriots have been consistently good since 2001 but where would NE be without Brady or Belichick? The same can be said for the 49er's without Walsh and Montana or the Cowboys without Aikman and Jimmy Johnson, and Denver without Elway. The game has changed to favor the QB which has caused such an amazing change in the numbers. So, to call anyone the GOAT is completely opinion based and there will never be a 100% answer to that except what is in one mans mind. Let it go already because it is an ongoing foolish argument.
                              sigpic

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Stackhouser View Post
                                The argument of who is the GOAT is the worst argument to have........

                                I don't comment too often because you Patriots fans boast complete opinionated garbage. The only arguments you ever make are Brady this and Brady that..... You never look at complete history of the game. You do realize it looks like none of you were fans prior to 2001 and if that's the case because you are too young to know otherwise, fine. I think Brady is one of the best ever. I also think Manning, Montana, Marino, Elway, Johnny U., Staubach, etc. are in the group of best ever. You see, the game changes so much over time it's impossible to know who is. Nobody knows how Johnny U. would have played in the 80's - 90's... Nobody knows how Elway, Montana, and Marino would have played in today's game. Nobody knows how Brady and Manning would have played in the 70's..... So you have to look at the bigger picture, not just through your rose tented glasses. True, The Patriots have been consistently good since 2001 but where would NE be without Brady or Belichick? The same can be said for the 49er's without Walsh and Montana or the Cowboys without Aikman and Jimmy Johnson, and Denver without Elway. The game has changed to favor the QB which has caused such an amazing change in the numbers. So, to call anyone the GOAT is completely opinion based and there will never be a 100% answer to that except what is in one mans mind. Let it go already because it is an ongoing foolish argument.
                                We are just going off the results. Do you want us to change it to MAOT (most accomplished QB of all time)?
                                Super Bowl Wins: Brady - 6 Elway - 2 Manning - 2 (played well in none and took HGH)

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