Public Opinion: Pats fans most annoying when posting on other team message boards

[baphamet]

And I would argue that winning is the most overrated of the categories, just because so many variables go into it. You could pass for 100 yards, fail to move your offense at all and generate 0 points on offense and get the win if the defense scores. At the same time you could pass for 500 yards, 7 touchdowns but lose if your defense is awful (think of the Chefs in the playoffs around 2003). You could start a game and play 1 quarter, and leave, but get the W.

Granted most QBs do contribute to wins, but I think overall it's an overrated stats, because of the need for the D and specials teams to do their parts to get that W.

And the eras make it so tough to compare, just about every offense is a run and shoot offense these days. Look at Dan Fouts as an example, his career year in 1981 saw him finish with 4,802 yards passing that would have placed him second last year, still obviously very respectable. But the second person behind him in 81 passed for 3,912 yards. That would have been 15th last year. How do you compare QBs between eras when things are skewed like that? Looking at Brady and Manning, their careers spanned the two different eras and their stats show that, of course they're two players who helped create the new era.

I know it all just for fun, and really it does come down to the eye test, who people see and think was the best. And of course that will also be heavily skewed by who you cheer for, Pats fans view Brady in a different light than fans of a rival. But of course a true mark of a great player, is when the average fan of a team's biggest rival can say that a certain player was a really great player.

winning might be an overrated stat if that was the only variable you were considering when judging QB's. but again, when you have the most wins, 4 rings, and you have top 5 all time numbers on top of that?

it's not like brady is just playing above average or good on a great team every year. he's dominating at his position playing at an elite level year in and year out and winning more than anyone else ever has.

some people think winning is a team stat and irrelevant to a QB but i ask those same people to look at the majority of teams that are usually bad every year and look at their current QB situation.

judging QB's by winning alone is dumb and ya there are people that do that.

[Butler By'Note]

it's just fun to debate and nobody is right or wrong.

years ago (when cutler was in denver) i made a thread here in the smack section where i created a point system formula for judging QB's. it included a lot of things like personal performance(stats), winning in the playoffs, winning in general, 4th quarter comebacks, game winning drives, certain intangibles.....ETC.

it is true what you say, there are a lot of variables. but the one thing that is constant no matter what era you are talking about, it's winning. i would make the argument that winning is even more of a QB stat now than it was in any other era due to the new QB driven NFL of today.

so anyway, if you take a QB that has a performance resume in the top 5 and he is also the most winningest QB of all time (with the best winning percentage in the regular season as well) with 4 rings?

it would be very difficult for me to justify someone else being better than that. but then again, everyone uses different criteria and all the different variables carry a different weight depending on the person.

And I would argue that winning is the most overrated of the categories, just because so many variables go into it. You could pass for 100 yards, fail to move your offense at all and generate 0 points on offense and get the win if the defense scores. At the same time you could pass for 500 yards, 7 touchdowns but lose if your defense is awful (think of the Chefs in the playoffs around 2003). You could start a game and play 1 quarter, and leave, but get the W.

Granted most QBs do contribute to wins, but I think overall it's an overrated stats, because of the need for the D and specials teams to do their parts to get that W.

And the eras make it so tough to compare, just about every offense is a run and shoot offense these days. Look at Dan Fouts as an example, his career year in 1981 saw him finish with 4,802 yards passing that would have placed him second last year, still obviously very respectable. But the second person behind him in 81 passed for 3,912 yards. That would have been 15th last year. How do you compare QBs between eras when things are skewed like that? Looking at Brady and Manning, their careers spanned the two different eras and their stats show that, of course they're two players who helped create the new era.

I know it all just for fun, and really it does come down to the eye test, who people see and think was the best. And of course that will also be heavily skewed by who you cheer for, Pats fans view Brady in a different light than fans of a rival. But of course a true mark of a great player, is when the average fan of a team's biggest rival can say that a certain player was a really great player.

[baphamet]

I don't think anyone can ever successfully argue who the greatest player of all time is, too many eras, too many variables and too many categories. Are we judging championships? Because then Terry Bradshaw is one of the best ever (he's not!). Stats? Cause that would say Manning is the best ever. Wins? Cause that overvalues a QBs role in many situations.

I think the more accurate thing is to argue who is in the group of the 5-10 best ever, but trying to argue one over the other is a fool's errand. But I would agree that Brady is in that group of 10.

it's just fun to debate and nobody is right or wrong.

years ago (when cutler was in denver) i made a thread here in the smack section where i created a point system formula for judging QB's. it included a lot of things like personal performance(stats), winning in the playoffs, winning in general, 4th quarter comebacks, game winning drives, certain intangibles.....ETC.

it is true what you say, there are a lot of variables. but the one thing that is constant no matter what era you are talking about, it's winning. i would make the argument that winning is even more of a QB stat now than it was in any other era due to the new QB driven NFL of today.

so anyway, if you take a QB that has a performance resume in the top 5 and he is also the most winningest QB of all time (with the best winning percentage in the regular season as well) with 4 rings?

it would be very difficult for me to justify someone else being better than that. but then again, everyone uses different criteria and all the different variables carry a different weight depending on the person.

[Sam_Z]

I just noticed the new thread title.

[Beagle]

Use your common sense. 162 million NFL fans are not going to vote on any poll. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to even find 100K fans vote in any poll. The poll is open to EVERYONE around the country - it's not a NE fan site but an extremely popular NFL fan site.

Really hard pressed ? lol one google search http://www.espn.com/sportsnation/pos...eatest-qb-ever and there are actually 3 different polls with over 100000 lol

(Total votes: 122,060) and would you loook at th map..The only place any one disagres with it? The New England area http://www.espn.com/espn/fp/flashPol...pollId/4550089

[Butler By'Note]

IMO brady is the best ever but i do get it when people talk about the system and benefiting from having the best coach ever.

I don't think anyone can ever successfully argue who the greatest player of all time is, too many eras, too many variables and too many categories. Are we judging championships? Because then Terry Bradshaw is one of the best ever (he's not!). Stats? Cause that would say Manning is the best ever. Wins? Cause that overvalues a QBs role in many situations.

I think the more accurate thing is to argue who is in the group of the 5-10 best ever, but trying to argue one over the other is a fool's errand. But I would agree that Brady is in that group of 10.

[Butler By'Note]

I'm not sure why Broncos fans are upset or arguing this. TBrady, cheater or not, is most definitely in the discussion for GOAT.

If you could rewind time, would you not take Brady in the 6th?

The problem with that thinking is that you assume the player will have the exact same career in a different system with a different coaching staff. But in reality players relate to different coaches differently and they excel in a system for different reasons. Brady became what he is because he got in an organization with coaches who he connected with and in a system that was what fit him, and they continue to tailor it as he goes on.

This isn't meant as a knock on Brady, it's a comment about players in general, players develop based on situation and skill, not just skill.

[baphamet]

IMO brady is the best ever but i do get it when people talk about the system and benefiting from having the best coach ever.

[BroncosDivision]

Congrats.

We all have an opinion.

[Stackhouser]

You know I didn't want to waste too much time on this garbage but I guess I got hooked into it a little bit but anyway he asked me if I really believe that "12,000 votes came from New England fan base". There are 14,444,258 people in the northeast/the new England area.

Yet all they could come up with was 12,000 votes in that chicken little poll.

He doesn't realize that 12,000 biased opinionated fans do not make up the country and they do not make the argument and Tom Brady's favor as the so-called goat.

he sure didn't help himself with this ridiculous pole and link he posted especially something taken from Mike Florio.

eh..... It's just fun to mess with TommyBoy when he brings up numbers or percentages.... He's always incorrect....

[Sam_Z]

Lets have some more fun with this.....

12,000 people have voted on this poll....

Gillette Stadium seats 66,829.....

That's only 17.956%!!!!!

You know I didn't want to waste too much time on this garbage but I guess I got hooked into it a little bit but anyway he asked me if I really believe that "12,000 votes came from New England fan base". There are 14,444,258 people in the northeast/the new England area.

Yet all they could come up with was 12,000 votes in that chicken little poll.

He doesn't realize that 12,000 biased opinionated fans do not make up the country and they do not make the argument and Tom Brady's favor as the so-called goat.

he sure didn't help himself with this ridiculous pole and link he posted especially something taken from Mike Florio.

[Stackhouser]

Good for you but who cares and in case you haven't noticed this is broncomania most of the posters here represent broncomania and most of the posters here are the ones telling you that Tom Brady's legacy is in fact tainted.

We do not need you to go find a biased opinionated pole that was taken in the north east, the area of New England.

As fans we are telling you that Tom Brady's take legacy is tainted, now go to the 30 other teams message forums and ask them how they feel about Tom Brady's legacy and see what they tell you.

The people that participated in that poll most likely aren't even football fans, they probably street walkers at the local mall.

Ask football fans around net, do your own research and then come back and give us your results ( if that's even what it's really about) it's not like we're gonna care but evidently you think we do so anyway that is the way to do it.

Lets have some more fun with this.....

12,000 people have voted on this poll....

Gillette Stadium seats 66,829.....

That's only 17.956%!!!!!

[Stackhouser]

I'm not talking about Florio's opinion. I am talking about the poll at the bottom of his piece. All offseason long I heard on this forum that "Brady is a cheater and his legacy is tainted." I responded that I believed most people in this country don't care about deflategate and it won't impact their opinion of him. You guys didn't believe me. I now am showing you some reasonable evidence that I was right. Is this poll absolute? No, of course not. But what poll is?

That is not "reasonable evidence".... Under 12,000 people have voted to a 74% output that he's the best, (their OPINION). 12,000 people out of 325,162,200 (Just U.S. population) is only 0.00369%.... Now I know not everyone is a football fanatic but come on!!!!!

[Sam_Z]

I'm not talking about Florio's opinion. I am talking about the poll at the bottom of his piece. All offseason long I heard on this forum that "Brady is a cheater and his legacy is tainted." I responded that I believed most people in this country don't care about deflategate and it won't impact their opinion of him. You guys didn't believe me. I now am showing you some reasonable evidence that I was right. Is this poll absolute? No, of course not. But what poll is?

Good for you but who cares and in case you haven't noticed this is broncomania most of the posters here represent broncomania and most of the posters here are the ones telling you that Tom Brady's legacy is in fact tainted.

We do not need you to go find a biased opinionated pole that was taken in the north east, the area of New England.

As fans we are telling you that Tom Brady's take legacy is tainted, now go to the 30 other teams message forums and ask them how they feel about Tom Brady's legacy and see what they tell you.

The people that participated in that poll most likely aren't even football fans, they probably street walkers at the local mall.

Ask football fans around net, do your own research and then come back and give us your results ( if that's even what it's really about) it's not like we're gonna care but evidently you think we do so anyway that is the way to do it.

[TommyBrady12]

Opinion based.... PERIOD!!!!

I'm not talking about Florio's opinion. I am talking about the poll at the bottom of his piece. All offseason long I heard on this forum that "Brady is a cheater and his legacy is tainted." I responded that I believed most people in this country don't care about deflategate and it won't impact their opinion of him. You guys didn't believe me. I now am showing you some reasonable evidence that I was right. Is this poll absolute? No, of course not. But what poll is?