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my pre-draft prediction for the broncos 2017 season.

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  • DevilSpawn
    replied
    bump

    Still a ways to go with a few weaker teams on the schedule.

    vs Cincinnati - Win. The Bengals are not good. Could be an ugly game.

    at Oakland - Loss. We'll either be desperate after a loss in Mexico or rejuvenated yet still desperate after a win in Mexico.

    at Miami - Win. It could be a feel good story of a QB beating his old team, but I don't see that happening. Cutler had career numbers against the Raiders and they still lost. A much better defense should beat them handily.

    vs NY Jets - Win. The Jets are better than people thought but they still suck.

    at Indianapolis - Win. The Colts are worse than people thought.

    at Washington - Loss. They'll be fighting for a Wild Card spot and will need this victory.

    vs KC - Loss. KC may be fighting for the 2nd seed with Pittsburgh.

    I see 7-9.

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  • arapaho
    replied
    Originally posted by baphamet View Post
    the underlined is the only point you made that is relevant to what i have been saying this entire time, all you want to talk about is one post i made on the subject like 3 years ago

    you are pretending that i claimed he was a top 10 player at his position back then due to that post but feel free to bump it again and quote me word for word because i never once said he was a top 10 player overall at his position based on that stat.

    the only reason i posted that article was to show you how disruptive he was when healthy and based on pressures alone he was playing at a top 10 level when healthy.

    you took that and spun it into me saying pressures are more important than sacks and that he is a top 10 player in the league based on that stat alone. that's not what i was saying or implying and it's not a fantasy stat, it's very relevant to a pass rusher.

    it's not the only thing that determines if a player is a top player in the league though, like you pretended i was saying.

    what's most important to remember and the point i made countless times was when healthy we saw "flashes" of dominance from him and he just needs to stay healthy and he would be a good player.

    that is why i am talking about the last two years only, because he's finally been healthy both years, the first time in his career and he has been a top 10 player over that span.


    that has been my point this entire time and you just want to ignore that, you just want to focus on one post i made about the subject years ago and spin it in a different direction because you lose, plain and simple.
    dude has had one good season, one average season...and three nothing seasons unless you count his "flashes and almost sacks"

    Shane Ray will be a much better player..

    as for your fantasy stat story...bap, I showed you your exact words telling us to look at your story saying that it proves your pointof barney being a top pass rusher IF WE IGNORE SACKS AND STUFF AND JUST LOOK AT PRESSUREs

    you know this...you ignore it...never the less it is a undeniable fact...you tried to use a fantasy stat article that based its rankings OF PASS RUSHERS ON PRESSURES PER SNAP...NOTHING MORE...THAT WAS YOUR PROOF

    barney may become a top OLB consistently...no doubt he has the ability...but IN my opinion to be one of the best there must be some consistency over the years

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  • baphamet
    replied
    Originally posted by arapaho View Post
    whole lotta whine in that

    no you keep addressing and insisting that my point is that pressures are a fantasy stat...which is nowhere near the point or the truth. you keep insisting that we insist the only way to judge a pass rusher is with sacks...again a lie

    the truth is barney had 2 good seasons in five years you claim he was a starter...and as a whole other than 2015 has put up average numbers for a OLB...
    heres numbers from 2012 forward

    vmiller...274 tackles...62 sacks...17 FF
    chandler jones...260 tackles...47 sacks..14 FF
    Kerrigan...243 tackles...51 sacks...15 FF

    barny...203....24,5....11

    in other words he is showing up lately, and has put up two years of decent numbers, and yes if you cherry pick the last two seasons...you can say hes top ten
    but if you look at his entire career as a starter....hes nowhere near one of the best...if he can carry it forward then we can claim that. but compare his "FLASHES" to shane ray...you cant even compare their respective 1st and second years because ray is far superior
    but in the last two seasons as a full time starter in his 4th and 5th seasons barney has played in 1919 defensive snaps, 125 tackles...18.5 sacks

    shane ray as a rookie and second yr player played, backing up a HOF Dware had 1006 def snaps 913 less defensive snaps than did barney...yet only had 57 less tackles and 6.5 less sacks

    so again barney has talent, but does one good season of 10 sacks in five years make him one of the best...not quite
    the underlined is the only point you made that is relevant to what i have been saying this entire time, all you want to talk about is one post i made on the subject like 3 years ago

    you are pretending that i claimed he was a top 10 player at his position back then due to that post but feel free to bump it again and quote me word for word because i never once said he was a top 10 player overall at his position based on that stat.

    the only reason i posted that article was to show you how disruptive he was when healthy and based on pressures alone he was playing at a top 10 level when healthy.

    you took that and spun it into me saying pressures are more important than sacks and that he is a top 10 player in the league based on that stat alone. that's not what i was saying or implying and it's not a fantasy stat, it's very relevant to a pass rusher.

    it's not the only thing that determines if a player is a top player in the league though, like you pretended i was saying.

    what's most important to remember and the point i made countless times was when healthy we saw "flashes" of dominance from him and he just needs to stay healthy and he would be a good player.

    that is why i am talking about the last two years only, because he's finally been healthy both years, the first time in his career and he has been a top 10 player over that span.


    that has been my point this entire time and you just want to ignore that, you just want to focus on one post i made about the subject years ago and spin it in a different direction because you lose, plain and simple.
    Last edited by baphamet; 05-01-2017, 12:52 PM.

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  • arapaho
    replied
    Originally posted by baphamet View Post
    ive already addressed every single thing you keep rehashing here. again, ingram could break the sack record and win defensive player of the year and all you have to do is revert back to 3 years ago to argue why he isn't a top 10 player currently......

    it's arapaho spin at it's worst to try and save face for being proven dead wrong about melvin ingram after years of smack talking him.

    you just want to talk about one article from one post i made on the subject, never mind the real point i made hundreds of times about seeing "flashes" of dominance from ingram and saying he only needs to stay healthy and he would be a good player.

    this is all well documented and you know it.

    oh and see the underlined? now that is a perfect example of a direct personal attack

    i can tell your panties are getting firmly twisted, i might be stupid in your deluded mind but at least i know what the hell i'm talking about and don't talk smack about a player for years only to get proven totally wrong then try to spin it like i wasn't .

    right now and for the last two seasons.......ingram has been finally healthy and is a top 10 player at his position in the league. go back 3 or 4 years to try and say he isn't, it just shows you are too embarrassed to admit when you have been wrong.

    clearly why you never say anything in smack anymore, are you ever right arapaho? that's what i want to know.

    whole lotta whine in that

    no you keep addressing and insisting that my point is that pressures are a fantasy stat...which is nowhere near the point or the truth. you keep insisting that we insist the only way to judge a pass rusher is with sacks...again a lie

    the truth is barney had 2 good seasons in five years you claim he was a starter...and as a whole other than 2015 has put up average numbers for a OLB...
    heres numbers from 2012 forward

    vmiller...274 tackles...62 sacks...17 FF
    chandler jones...260 tackles...47 sacks..14 FF
    Kerrigan...243 tackles...51 sacks...15 FF

    barny...203....24,5....11

    in other words he is showing up lately, and has put up two years of decent numbers, and yes if you cherry pick the last two seasons...you can say hes top ten
    but if you look at his entire career as a starter....hes nowhere near one of the best...if he can carry it forward then we can claim that. but compare his "FLASHES" to shane ray...you cant even compare their respective 1st and second years because ray is far superior
    but in the last two seasons as a full time starter in his 4th and 5th seasons barney has played in 1919 defensive snaps, 125 tackles...18.5 sacks

    shane ray as a rookie and second yr player played, backing up a HOF Dware had 1006 def snaps 913 less defensive snaps than did barney...yet only had 57 less tackles and 6.5 less sacks

    so again barney has talent, but does one good season of 10 sacks in five years make him one of the best...not quite

    Leave a comment:


  • baphamet
    replied
    Originally posted by arapaho View Post
    ...so now your saying you don't understand that I'm talking about your fantasy article...that came out after barneys rookie season, a season in which he predominantly played on passing downs, ...are you really that stupid or simply playing your bap smack flip flop at another level...

    ingram played in every game in his rookie season fool...
    http://www.nfl.com/player/melviningr...gs?season=2012

    and yet he only had 120 defensive snaps..wonder why...cause he mainly came in pass rush situations...HENCE, YOU FANTASY PRESSURES PER SNAP ARTICLE WAS CRAP...IF HE ONLY CAME IN FOR PASS RUSH SNAPS..IT IS ALMOST GUARANTEED HIS PRESSURESS PER SNAP PERCENTAGE WOULD BE HIGHER

    I cant believe you don't get this

    what did you say it proved...DUDE YOU SPENT AN ENTIRE YEAR SAYING THAT your FANTASY STAT ARTICLE PROVED HE WAS A TOP 10 PASS RUSHER.....WITH YOUR WORDS..." if we just look at pressures"



    why cause your stupid...again you ask any defensive coach...would they rather have a sack,,,with the loss of down...or a off holding, that still gives the offense their full three downs...ask them
    its a stupid aurgument

    and please ....ingram isn't a 2 year player...he is a 5 year vet that has averaged a measly 4.5 sacks per year as a OLB...24.5 sacks in five seasons compared to a real top ten pass rusher like miller with 60 in 5
    ive already addressed every single thing you keep rehashing here. again, ingram could break the sack record and win defensive player of the year and all you have to do is revert back to 3 years ago to argue why he isn't a top 10 player currently......

    it's arapaho spin at it's worst to try and save face for being proven dead wrong about melvin ingram after years of smack talking him.

    you just want to talk about one article from one post i made on the subject, never mind the real point i made hundreds of times about seeing "flashes" of dominance from ingram and saying he only needs to stay healthy and he would be a good player.

    this is all well documented and you know it.

    oh and see the underlined? now that is a perfect example of a direct personal attack

    i can tell your panties are getting firmly twisted, i might be stupid in your deluded mind but at least i know what the hell i'm talking about and don't talk smack about a player for years only to get proven totally wrong then try to spin it like i wasn't .

    right now and for the last two seasons.......ingram has been finally healthy and is a top 10 player at his position in the league. go back 3 or 4 years to try and say he isn't, it just shows you are too embarrassed to admit when you have been wrong.

    clearly why you never say anything in smack anymore, are you ever right arapaho? that's what i want to know.

    Leave a comment:


  • arapaho
    replied
    Originally posted by baphamet View Post
    now you are talking straight out of your ass. both ingram and miller played the same exact position in the same defensive scheme up until now. :

    ingram has always been the starter unless he was injured, that stat mattered because he didn't have as many snaps due to injury, which is why i posted it.

    besides, if you can find a pass rush only stat that ignores the amount of snaps and just shows efficiency when rushing the passer, feel free to prove me wrong. you don't want to because you just want to mention how few sacks he had because he was injured so much, it's all you have to go on.

    until then quit crying.





    what did i insist it proved? quote me directly instead of putting words in my mouth like you always love to do. the fact that you call them "almost sacks" just shows how ignorant you are to this subject.

    PFF has him ranked at #6 right now and that includes being #7 in sack totals the last two years combines when he's been healthy. that is the only point i need to make because this whole time my argument has been that we have seen flashes of dominance from ingram, he just needs to stay healthy.

    i was absolutely correct and you refuse to eat your crow.



    the dumbest argument you could have possibly made. really, it's the only thing you can say without totally admitting how wrong you were. i mean, ingram could break out with an 18 sack season and all you have to do is mention all the seasons he was injured to justify why he isn't a top player.

    it's idiotic. ingram has developed into a top 10 player, that is what he is right now, not 3 or 4 years ago but right now. :



    why are you only mentioning third down? is that the only down a sack can happen on? :

    because you are cherry picking. i said it depends on multiple factors, it depends on down and distance for example. if it's first and 10, would you rather be in 2nd and 13 or 1st and 20?

    you can continue with these word play games and cherry pick to pretend you were not proven wrong but it will be funny when ingram has another good season and to see you dance like you are right now :l:
    ...so now your saying you don't understand that I'm talking about your fantasy article...that came out after barneys rookie season, a season in which he predominantly played on passing downs, ...are you really that stupid or simply playing your bap smack flip flop at another level...

    ingram played in every game in his rookie season fool...
    http://www.nfl.com/player/melviningr...gs?season=2012

    and yet he only had 120 defensive snaps..wonder why...cause he mainly came in pass rush situations...HENCE, YOU FANTASY PRESSURES PER SNAP ARTICLE WAS CRAP...IF HE ONLY CAME IN FOR PASS RUSH SNAPS..IT IS ALMOST GUARANTEED HIS PRESSURESS PER SNAP PERCENTAGE WOULD BE HIGHER

    I cant believe you don't get this

    what did you say it proved...DUDE YOU SPENT AN ENTIRE YEAR SAYING THAT your FANTASY STAT ARTICLE PROVED HE WAS A TOP 10 PASS RUSHER.....WITH YOUR WORDS..." if we just look at pressures"



    why cause your stupid...again you ask any defensive coach...would they rather have a sack,,,with the loss of down...or a off holding, that still gives the offense their full three downs...ask them
    its a stupid aurgument

    and please ....ingram isn't a 2 year player...he is a 5 year vet that has averaged a measly 4.5 sacks per year as a OLB...24.5 sacks in five seasons compared to a real top ten pass rusher like miller with 60 in 5
    Last edited by arapaho; 04-29-2017, 07:36 PM.

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  • baphamet
    replied
    Originally posted by arapaho View Post
    dude it was a fantasy article that looked at pressures per snap...where barney only played on pass rush downs and only to rush the passer, compared to guys like von who play 3 downs including run downs, or might drop into coverage ..it stands to reason a guy who only played passing downs would have a better % of pressures per snap...you were just to stupid to grasp the facts.
    now you are talking straight out of your ass. both ingram and miller played the same exact position in the same defensive scheme up until now.

    ingram has always been the starter unless he was injured, that stat mattered because he didn't have as many snaps due to injury, which is why i posted it.

    besides, if you can find a pass rush only stat that ignores the amount of snaps and just shows efficiency when rushing the passer, feel free to prove me wrong. you don't want to because you just want to mention how few sacks he had because he was injured so much, it's all you have to go on.

    until then quit crying.



    nobody ever said pressure don't matter...a pressure can at times result in a incompletion or a turnover.. but it can also simply mean the pass rusher was blocked by the qb as the qb stepped into the pocket and threw a TD...what we said was we rely on more then a fantasy pressure stat story...we look at sacks...qb hits...tackles for loss...you at the time insisted these almost sacks proved it
    what did i insist it proved? quote me directly instead of putting words in my mouth like you always love to do. the fact that you call them "almost sacks" just shows how ignorant you are to this subject.

    PFF has him ranked at #6 right now and that includes being #7 in sack totals the last two years combines when he's been healthy. that is the only point i need to make because this whole time my argument has been that we have seen flashes of dominance from ingram, he just needs to stay healthy.

    i was absolutely correct and you refuse to eat your crow.

    and no...I don't consider a pass rusher...who has 24 sacks in 5 years of play, averages 4.5 sacks per season...a top ten pass rusher...sorry...von has a 12 sack per year average

    as for the spin move ...it is NOT RARE AND VINTAGE...GET OVER IT ...AND NOBODY CARES IF FREENEY TAUGHT IT TO ANYONE...IT IS NOT RARE AND VINTAGE
    the dumbest argument you could have possibly made. really, it's the only thing you can say without totally admitting how wrong you were. i mean, ingram could break out with an 18 sack season and all you have to do is mention all the seasons he was injured to justify why he isn't a top player.

    it's idiotic. ingram has developed into a top 10 player, that is what he is right now, not 3 or 4 years ago but right now.

    NO ...a sack ends the play...loss of down...on third down it ends the drive...a hold adds ten yards...but a drive can still continue, still result in a offensive score...get over it
    what your moronically insisting is that a sack that is a 4 yard loss, is worse then a O holding which cost the team 10 yards...only looking at yardage...ONLY

    no ingram had one good season...nothing more
    why are you only mentioning third down? is that the only down a sack can happen on?

    because you are cherry picking. i said it depends on multiple factors, it depends on down and distance for example. if it's first and 10, would you rather be in 2nd and 13 or 1st and 20?

    you can continue with these word play games and cherry pick to pretend you were not proven wrong but it will be funny when ingram has another good season and to see you dance like you are right now

    Leave a comment:


  • baphamet
    replied
    Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    Boring fast? We didn't make the playoffs, so unlike you Baphs we don't continue to talk smack when our team is out of it.
    You said the same crap last year and Denver went 9-7, that's right we started a former 3rd string second year 7th rd Qb and still won 9 games, and had the opportunity to beat Tennessee ( Fowler drops game winner), and KC (defense allowed td drive and 2 pt conversion, which would have put us at 11-5 and in the playoffs. I know I am bias and only seeing the season through orange colored lenses, but i do realize we won some games we could have easily lost as well (Carolina, and New Orleans we got lucky in both) So all and all we are a .500 team and who wins our Qb spot , and how he plays will decide if we win 8 games or 12 games that's where I see us. And we still have the rest of the draft.
    what exactly did i say last year? the main things i said about denver was their defense would take a step back but still be really good. i said it would be elways truest test as a GM, i said the broncos would be lucky to make the playoffs.

    i was spot on about the broncos actually lol

    where i was wrong was about the chargers. i didn't foresee the chargers monumental choking early in the season, nor did i foresee them sending a key player to IR nearly every single week for the first 11 weeks and sending 23 guys total.

    i also didn't foresee the OL being that bad and they were actually healthy. why don't you go and look at the starting lineup from the last 1/4 of the season and compare it to what they have right now? not even close to the same team.

    this is why i am saying the same things as last year, because it still holds true today. unless you are banking on the chargers choking huge leads in multiple games again and being the most injured team in the NFL.

    it's cool that you are optimistic and disagree with me, it's that time of year but the chargers are going to be really really good on offense this year and defensively they should be pretty good as well.

    the chargers now have 3 new possible starting offensive lineman and a new receiver that fits exactly what rivers loves to do. remember the days of vincent jackson and malcolm floyd with the jump balls? that's mike williams' game right there.

    Leave a comment:


  • 58Miller
    replied
    Originally posted by baphamet View Post
    the broncos will be in last place in the division and have a top 10 pick in the 2018 draft.

    the broncos need a real QB, a rebuilt OL, a good RB, a good pass catching TE, your two best players on offense (sanders and Thomas) are both approaching 30 years old. there isn't a lot of bright spots offensively for the broncos.

    defensively, i'm sure they will still be pretty good. top 10 i'm sure but yet another step back and really not capable of carrying an offense anymore without their defensive mastermind and that's assuming they stay pretty dang healthy like they were last season.

    if the broncos lose some key players on defense to injury, it could get ugly for them......like top 3 pick in the 2018 draft ugly.


    this place got boring fast now that the broncos are a mediocre team, so i figure i will liven the place up a little bit.

    you can thank me later.
    Boring fast? We didn't make the playoffs, so unlike you Baphs we don't continue to talk smack when our team is out of it.
    You said the same crap last year and Denver went 9-7, that's right we started a former 3rd string second year 7th rd Qb and still won 9 games, and had the opportunity to beat Tennessee ( Fowler drops game winner), and KC (defense allowed td drive and 2 pt conversion, which would have put us at 11-5 and in the playoffs. I know I am bias and only seeing the season through orange colored lenses, but i do realize we won some games we could have easily lost as well (Carolina, and New Orleans we got lucky in both) So all and all we are a .500 team and who wins our Qb spot , and how he plays will decide if we win 8 games or 12 games that's where I see us. And we still have the rest of the draft.
    Last edited by 58Miller; 04-28-2017, 03:29 PM.

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  • arapaho
    replied
    Originally posted by baphamet View Post
    what difference does it make??

    because it was a fantasy site that makes it not credible? that's your argument? it was a stat that measures pressures on a per snap basis, instead of crying that it was a fantasy stat, why don't you explain to me how that is not a relevant stat to a pass rusher?

    it absolutely is, it tells you exactly how disruptive he was on every snap. this is literally the only thing you can say because at this point it doesn't matter, i have been proven correct and you refuse to man up and eat your crow.



    is it not more rare than it used to be 20 or 30 years ago? yes it is. pass rushers don't utilize it like they used to because it slows down speed rushers, this is something you are incapable of understanding.

    you and beagle both tried to talk smack to me suggesting that spinning is something guys learn back in high school yet i provided proof that he not only taught ingram how to do it better but he taught von miller and vic beasley as well.

    obviously i knew what i was talking about.



    if you don't agree that a holding call can be better than a sack, there is no hope for you. you clearly believe everything is black and white, every sack is better than every single pressure or every single holding call.

    it's a 100% fact that a holding call can produce better results than a sack but it depends on a few things which i already pointed out to you but you ignored.

    again,. we don't have to rehash anything, i was proven right about ingram, he is a top 10 player at his position (now that he has been healthy) according to your absolute sack numbers as well as according to most around the league including PFF.

    you lose dude, plain and simple.
    dude it was a fantasy article that looked at pressures per snap...where barney only played on pass rush downs and only to rush the passer, compared to guys like von who play 3 downs including run downs, or might drop into coverage ..it stands to reason a guy who only played passing downs would have a better % of pressures per snap...you were just to stupid to grasp the facts.

    nobody ever said pressure don't matter...a pressure can at times result in a incompletion or a turnover.. but it can also simply mean the pass rusher was blocked by the qb as the qb stepped into the pocket and threw a TD...what we said was we rely on more then a fantasy pressure stat story...we look at sacks...qb hits...tackles for loss...you at the time insisted these almost sacks proved it

    and no...I don't consider a pass rusher...who has 24 sacks in 5 years of play, averages 4.5 sacks per season...a top ten pass rusher...sorry...von has a 12 sack per year average

    as for the spin move ...it is NOT RARE AND VINTAGE...GET OVER IT ...AND NOBODY CARES IF FREENEY TAUGHT IT TO ANYONE...IT IS NOT RARE AND VINTAGE


    NO ...a sack ends the play...loss of down...on third down it ends the drive...a hold adds ten yards...but a drive can still continue, still result in a offensive score...get over it
    what your moronically insisting is that a sack that is a 4 yard loss, is worse then a O holding which cost the team 10 yards...only looking at yardage...ONLY

    no ingram had one good season...nothing more

    Leave a comment:


  • baphamet
    replied
    Originally posted by arapaho View Post
    ima say this real slow...I know you kellyann using alternative facts here...but

    I said your PFF article proclaiming barney a top 10 pass rusher by using pressures per pass rush snap....was a fantasy football article

    I am not saying as you well know...that pressures are only a fantasy stat
    what difference does it make??

    because it was a fantasy site that makes it not credible? that's your argument? it was a stat that measures pressures on a per snap basis, instead of crying that it was a fantasy stat, why don't you explain to me how that is not a relevant stat to a pass rusher?

    it absolutely is, it tells you exactly how disruptive he was on every snap. this is literally the only thing you can say because at this point it doesn't matter, i have been proven correct and you refuse to man up and eat your crow.

    I wanna talk about the spin....but didn't you post some BS article proving freeney was teaching the rare and vintage spin move?...that was you wasn't it
    so when I laufgh at the entire joke of it being rare and vintage...some how I'm spinning?
    lay off the weed dude
    is it not more rare than it used to be 20 or 30 years ago? yes it is. pass rushers don't utilize it like they used to because it slows down speed rushers, this is something you are incapable of understanding.

    you and beagle both tried to talk smack to me suggesting that spinning is something guys learn back in high school yet i provided proof that he not only taught ingram how to do it better but he taught von miller and vic beasley as well.

    obviously i knew what i was talking about.

    he didn't have the sack numbers...tackle for loss numbers...qb hit numbers...and sack numbers...its amazing how we keep informing you your fantasy of ..."we only use sacks" keeps getting ripped, but you still keep insisting

    and now your gonna make foolish hypotheticals to prove a holding call is better then a sack...is that what your little smoke induced brain is resorting to
    if you don't agree that a holding call can be better than a sack, there is no hope for you. you clearly believe everything is black and white, every sack is better than every single pressure or every single holding call.

    it's a 100% fact that a holding call can produce better results than a sack but it depends on a few things which i already pointed out to you but you ignored.

    again,. we don't have to rehash anything, i was proven right about ingram, he is a top 10 player at his position (now that he has been healthy) according to your absolute sack numbers as well as according to most around the league including PFF.

    you lose dude, plain and simple.

    Leave a comment:


  • arapaho
    replied
    Originally posted by baphamet View Post
    there is no fantasy stat, PFF and their stats are bought and used by multiple NFL teams lol

    the "fantasy stat" you ae referring to is 100% relevant to what we are talking about, considering pressure is a lot more important than you are pretending it is.



    how comical, you want to talk about spin? this is exactly what you are doing right now. it's talking about the importance of pressure and the affect it has on a QB vs non pressure and you are doing everything in your power to discredit it because it annihilates your ignorant argument.

    PFF >>>>>>>> you and your cherry picked stats



    no, that was your interpitation of it. what i was saying was backed up by hard data and you are just trying to push it aside and claim it's "fantasy stats".

    its a 100% fact that on average pressure alone lowers QB efficiency by a considerable amount. i wasn't saying at all that i thought a pressure alone is better than a sack except for when it causes a turn over or a bad play.

    you discredited the amount of disruption ingram showcased because he didn't have the sack numbers, that was your smack angle and that's all you really knew. of course you never watched him play like i did, you didn't see the "flashes" that i and others that closely followed the chargers seen.

    dude just needed to get healthy and stay healthy and i knew he would be alright, he still has prove he can stay healthy.



    show me where i said you must judge any pass rusher on pressures alone. no i didn't insist you should judge him on pressure, i was attempting to show you that just because he wasn't finishing all his sacks doesn't mean he wasn't doing his job or that he just was a bad player, like you insisted that he was.

    i was showing you he was disruptive and wreaking havoc even though it wasn't showing up on the stat sheet. either way, we now know i wasn't just blowing hot air, obviously i knew what i was talking about and you clearly do not.



    it depends what down it is. 1/10 would you rather have it be 2/13 or 1/20? same goes for second down. it also depends on field position. i'm still not wrong, it can be better than a sack but that doesn't mean i'm saying all holding penalties are generally better than a sack, that's just idiotic.



    that's your problem, you look up sack totals and make sweeping conclusions based off that alone, that's why you are sitting here right now looking like a giant fool. you want to talk about fantasy stats as if they are not credible when multiple NFL teams use their data yet you simply look up sack totals and come to a conclusion based on that alone? that's the better method??

    now that is ridiculous.
    ima say this real slow...I know you kellyann using alternative facts here...but

    I said your PFF article proclaiming barney a top 10 pass rusher by using pressures per pass rush snap....was a fantasy football article

    I am not saying as you well know...that pressures are only a fantasy stat

    I wanna talk about the spin....but didn't you post some BS article proving freeney was teaching the rare and vintage spin move?...that was you wasn't it
    so when I laufgh at the entire joke of it being rare and vintage...some how I'm spinning?
    lay off the weed dude

    he didn't have the sack numbers...tackle for loss numbers...qb hit numbers...and sack numbers...its amazing how we keep informing you your fantasy of ..."we only use sacks" keeps getting ripped, but you still keep insisting

    and now your gonna make foolish hypotheticals to prove a holding call is better then a sack...is that what your little smoke induced brain is resorting to
    Last edited by arapaho; 04-24-2017, 05:11 PM.

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  • arapaho
    replied
    Originally posted by baphamet View Post
    it is more seldom used than it used to be 20 or 30 years ago which makes it somewhat vintage, that was my point. today's pass rushers are far more about speed rushing (spinning slows them down obviously ) and if it was commonly used then why would two pros von miller and melvin gordon need advice from freeney on how to do it more effectively? because freeney is one of the few that have mastered it and uses it frequently.

    the fact of the matter is, you talked smack for years about ingram and it has all been thrown back in your football ignorant face.
    no that is a absolute bull crap excuse

    the spin move has always been used in fact I would bet its actually used more now than 20-30 years ago...big men are stronger, faster and more agile...and the spin move is used in every game by players from every team in every week of the season, including DTs


    again what have you throw in my face...besides your whiney most injured ever excuses
    or your worst defense ever

    or worst special teams ever
    or worst playcalling

    or worst scheme

    barney is a 5th year vet, OLB...with 24 sacks...nothing spectacular
    Beasley has two years and already 19.5 sacks
    by vons 5th year he had 60 sacks
    chandler jones same 5 years as barney...47 sacks
    r kerrigans 5th year came with 47.5 sacks

    your trying to insist barney...like Lorenzo alexander with one good year is somehow one of the top pass rushers because of one good season

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  • baphamet
    replied
    Originally posted by arapaho View Post
    show me one time I used a pff fantasy stat to prove anything...I use stats from various sources...I do not use FANTASY STATS
    there is no fantasy stat, PFF and their stats are bought and used by multiple NFL teams lol

    the "fantasy stat" you ae referring to is 100% relevant to what we are talking about, considering pressure is a lot more important than you are pretending it is.

    and again in your weird kellyann way of spin...you are lying again, the part where I said your article that used only pressure to judge pass rushers...was a Pff fantasy metric story, which it was...does not mean I'm saying pressure are fantasy stats
    how comical, you want to talk about spin? this is exactly what you are doing right now. it's talking about the importance of pressure and the affect it has on a QB vs non pressure and you are doing everything in your power to discredit it because it annihilates your ignorant argument.

    PFF >>>>>>>> you and your cherry picked stats

    and as we insisted a dozens of times...a pressure can result in a bad play...but it can also result more often in a completion, a 1st down, a scramble for yardage, and many times a offensive TD, that is a fact that cannot be denied, where you tried to insist a hurry can be better than a sack because hurries is all barney had
    no, that was your interpitation of it. what i was saying was backed up by hard data and you are just trying to push it aside and claim it's "fantasy stats".

    its a 100% fact that on average pressure alone lowers QB efficiency by a considerable amount. i wasn't saying at all that i thought a pressure alone is better than a sack except for when it causes a turn over or a bad play.

    you discredited the amount of disruption ingram showcased because he didn't have the sack numbers, that was your smack angle and that's all you really knew. of course you never watched him play like i did, you didn't see the "flashes" that i and others that closely followed the chargers seen.

    dude just needed to get healthy and stay healthy and i knew he would be alright, he still has prove he can stay healthy.

    a pressure is recorded anytime a qb steps up, moves lateral, or scambles when a defenders rush brings him within 2 yards..

    you insisted we judge barney by pressures ...we insisted pressures are ok but to be a great pass rusher they must also COME WITH QB HITS, TACKLES FOR LOSS, PASSES DEFENDED AND SACKS...to judge a pass rusher

    not simply pressures
    show me where i said you must judge any pass rusher on pressures alone. no i didn't insist you should judge him on pressure, i was attempting to show you that just because he wasn't finishing all his sacks doesn't mean he wasn't doing his job or that he just was a bad player, like you insisted that he was.

    i was showing you he was disruptive and wreaking havoc even though it wasn't showing up on the stat sheet. either way, we now know i wasn't just blowing hot air, obviously i knew what i was talking about and you clearly do not.

    as for holdings can be better...a sack comes with a loss of down...now tell me if its third and 5 and you get the offense to hold its still third an 15...if its 3rd and 5 and you get a sack....the other team punts...which is better?
    I guarantee you ask any defender, coach in the league what would you rather have on 3rd down...a offensive holding...or a defensive sack they are going to say sack

    now your being ridiculous
    it depends what down it is. 1/10 would you rather have it be 2/13 or 1/20? same goes for second down. it also depends on field position. i'm still not wrong, it can be better than a sack but that doesn't mean i'm saying all holding penalties are generally better than a sack, that's just idiotic.

    when you used your fantasy stats to prop up barney..reyas was the better player...10.5 sacks 62 tackles in his first two season as a DT...compared to barneys 2 sacks and 49 tackles as a OLB...
    that's your problem, you look up sack totals and make sweeping conclusions based off that alone, that's why you are sitting here right now looking like a giant fool. you want to talk about fantasy stats as if they are not credible when multiple NFL teams use their data yet you simply look up sack totals and come to a conclusion based on that alone? that's the better method??

    now that is ridiculous.

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  • arapaho
    replied
    Originally posted by baphamet View Post
    learn how to multi quote dude, i mean seriously.



    it's PFF, a reference you yourself have used on multiple occasions and a reference that is far more credible than you or i will ever be in terms of judging player performance.

    that said, explain to me how the % of pressures per snap is only a fantasy stat? that's a stat that shows how efficient a pass rusher is per every snap they take. now, it is just for pressures but pressures have a much bigger impact that you obviously think they do.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/sig...nder-pressure/

    ive posted this link before and this is the same kind of information you push aside and claim is a "fantasy stat metric" as if pressures per snap % has anything to do with fantasy football.

    the fact of the matter is, pressures absolutely do have an effect on a lot of plays and you can see in that graphic in the link i posted, on average it has a huge affect.

    oh and a point i have never made before which is relevant, a holding penalty can be better than a sack as well, in fact they are better than most sacks that are not more than 10 yards loses or are strip sacks.

    pressure draws those holding penalties a lot of times of course.

    you always try to pretend i say pressures are better than sacks just because i said they can be better, just like a holding penalty can be better. but the fact remains, pressure has an effect on the outcome of plays and it doesn't always show up on the stat sheet.



    yeah, and? my response above covers any confusion you might have.



    lets see.....you talked smack to me about my "flashes of dominance" comments, when i said that ingrams main issues have always been health. you said kendall reyas was a better pick than ingram, you called it a wasted pick and a bust.

    but as i told you then, i actually watch the games. i seen "flashes" of a really dominant player but he always got hurt. well, the last two years he has been healthy and he is 7th in sacks among all LB'ers over that period and he is the ranked #6 edge rusher according to PFF last season.

    BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN HEALTHY. he was considered the #6 edge rusher last season yet only had 8 sacks, there is a lot more to ingrams game than just sacks and that was the only point i ever tried to make about that.

    oh and the point about the effectivness of pressure, i think the link i provided pretty much destroys that angle too.

    show me one time I used a pff fantasy stat to prove anything...I use stats from various sources...I do not use FANTASY STATS

    and again in your weird kellyann way of spin...you are lying again, the part where I said your article that used only pressure to judge pass rushers...was a Pff fantasy metric story, which it was...does not mean I'm saying pressure are fantasy stats

    and as we insisted a dozens of times...a pressure can result in a bad play...but it can also result more often in a completion, a 1st down, a scramble for yardage, and many times a offensive TD, that is a fact that cannot be denied, where you tried to insist a hurry can be better than a sack because hurries is all barney had

    a pressure is recorded anytime a qb steps up, moves lateral, or scambles when a defenders rush brings him within 2 yards..

    you insisted we judge barney by pressures ...we insisted pressures are ok but to be a great pass rusher they must also COME WITH QB HITS, TACKLES FOR LOSS, PASSES DEFENDED AND SACKS...to judge a pass rusher

    not simply pressures

    as for holdings can be better...a sack comes with a loss of down...now tell me if its third and 5 and you get the offense to hold its still third an 15...if its 3rd and 5 and you get a sack....the other team punts...which is better?
    I guarantee you ask any defender, coach in the league what would you rather have on 3rd down...a offensive holding...or a defensive sack they are going to say sack

    now your being ridiculous

    when you used your fantasy stats to prop up barney..reyas was the better player...10.5 sacks 62 tackles in his first two season as a DT...compared to barneys 2 sacks and 49 tackles as a OLB...

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